US porn film makers suspend filming over HIV scare

[Lori_7]

No, but there is a lot more to it then you would necessarily learn on your own (or as quickly).
For instance, growing up as a teenager, all the references to oral sex implied it was gross, but it was porn that showed that it wasn't. Or that foreplay could be quite varied and an important part of sex etc etc.

In my younger years I learned a lot about how to please a woman from porn.
It was admittedly mostly what you would call "soft porn", but instructional none the less.

As far as hurting people, I'm not sure I agree, a lot of people are REALLY into sex and it seems to serve a market that exists, not the other way round.

Arthur

really into sex? or really into watching other people have sex?

the way i see it, sex should be a discovery process between two people which promotes a deeper intimacy than just the physical.

and the way i see it, if you can't figure out how to fuck without watching a porn video, then you're retarded, and you shouldn't be spreading your dna around anyway.

 

[Lori_7]

i invite everyone to read these articles...the actors and actresses testimonies in particular.

http://www.shelleylubben.com/shelleys-articles

 

[Lori_7]

now let me add a rhetorical question. to all who think that porn is just okey-dokey, would you want your son or daughter in the industry? why not? and if it's not ok for your son or daughter then why in the hell do you think it's ok for anyone else's son or daughter? because EVERYONE is SOMEONE'S son or daughter. grrrrrr.....

 

[adoucette]

really into sex? or really into watching other people have sex?

the way i see it, sex should be a discovery process between two people which promotes a deeper intimacy than just the physical.

and the way i see it, if you can't figure out how to fuck without watching a porn video, then you're retarded, and you shouldn't be spreading your dna around anyway.

Porn is a pretty big industry Lori, so obviously a LOT of people find it enjoyable.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/21/60minutes/main585049.shtml

I'm not sure why you think it is so bad, and I'm sure you can come up with some people who have legitimate complaints with some of the companies involved in it, because in any industry there will be outliers, but from what I gather a LOT of decent people make good money in the industry and aren't into drugs etc.

If I look at the crime stats and the growing availability of porn, what I see is the two trends going in the opposite direction. Don't think that that proves they are related, but it does suggest that porn doesn't drive criminal actions.

Arthur

 

[Lori_7]

Porn is a pretty big industry Lori, so obviously a LOT of people find it enjoyable.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/21/60minutes/main585049.shtml

I'm not sure why you think it is so bad, and I'm sure you can come up with some people who have legitimate complaints with some of the companies involved in it, because in any industry there will be outliers, but from what I gather a LOT of decent people make good money in the industry and aren't into drugs etc.

If I look at the crime stats and the growing availability of porn, what I see is the two trends going in the opposite direction. Don't think that that proves they are related, but it does suggest that porn doesn't drive criminal actions.

Arthur

i don't really care so much if it drives criminal actions; i think it IS a criminal action.

do you have a daughter?

 

[adoucette]

What's criminal about adults allowing other adults watch them having consensual sex?

Arthur

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

There goes what is left of the American economy.

I've had a hard time trying to verify this, but several years ago my friends in Hollywood told me that pornography had become a bigger business than mainstream films. I get the impression that the same thing has happened in France.

 

[Lori_7]

What's criminal about adults allowing other adults watch them having consensual sex?

Arthur

because it objectifies human beings and reduces something sacred and valuable to the equivalent of taking a shit.

DO YOU HAVE A DAUGHTER?

 

[adoucette]

Don't believe everything you hear.

Porn is small compared to the mainstream film industry.

Which is why big stars are paid 10s of millions of dollars to be in a big Hollywood movie.

They make 100 porn films for that amount, including paying the actors, and they will never make it to anything but "art houses" and of course, DVDs.

Arthur

 

[adoucette]

because it objectifies human beings and reduces something sacred and valuable to the equivalent of taking a shit.

Well I disagree, but none the less, taking a shit, in the privacy of your own home, isn't criminal.

Arthur

 

[Lori_7]

Well I disagree, but none the less, taking a shit, in the privacy of your own home, isn't criminal.

Arthur

:wallbang:

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Porn is small compared to the mainstream film industry.

May I please see the figures on that?

They make 100 porn films for that amount, including paying the actors, and they will never make it to anything but "art houses" and of course, DVDs.

Sure, but volume counts. These days downloads are the biggest vector for porn. Most people want to watch it in private, not in a theater where anything they do would be prosecuted as public indecency.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

:wallbang:

* * * * NOTE FROM A MODERATOR * * * *

Lori, this subforum is specifically about ethics and morality. If you have a point to make, then please do so in an articulate and scholarly manner, in order to help the discussion make progress. Just tossing off a snide remark about having a daughter, or a silly emoticon which (I guess?) implies that you have a really thick skull, is nothing but TROLLING.

If you have something to say, say it.

 

[Lori_7]

* * * * NOTE FROM A MODERATOR * * * *

Lori, this subforum is specifically about ethics and morality. If you have a point to make, then please do so in an articulate and scholarly manner, in order to help the discussion make progress. Just tossing off a snide remark about having a daughter, or a silly emoticon which (I guess?) implies that you have a really thick skull, is nothing but TROLLING.

If you have something to say, say it.

it wasn't a snide remark about having a daughter. it was a legitimate question that i asked twice, and blatantly did not receive an answer to, which i can only assume is a way of avoiding the extremely valid point i'm making.

also, i said that porn reduced sex to the equivalent of taking a shit, and his response was that taking a shit isn't a crime. my point is that reducing sex down to taking a shit is.

the emoticon expresses frustration, and that's all i had left to say. :shrug:

and that is NOT trolling.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

it wasn't a snide remark about having a daughter. it was a legitimate question that i asked twice, and blatantly did not receive an answer to, which i can only assume is a way of avoiding the extremely valid point i'm making.

That's hardly a "valid" point. We all know (or for the goddess's sake we should know) that emotions cloud judgment. This is the reason, for example, that people bereaved by crime should never be allowed to make policy: the experience has made them, at least temporarily, selfish, irrational and consumed by vengeance, the most evil of all emotions.

So to assume that a person who has a daughter might feel differently about pornography than one who does not may very well be correct, but it says nothing about which of them has the better judgment and which of them we should listen to. Besides, once the daughter reaches the age of majority, which is eighteen in most of the USA, she has the right to make her own decisions about both career and morality.

also, i said that porn reduced sex to the equivalent of taking a shit. . . .

Speaking of shit, you sure don't know shit about porn or why people watch it. Just for starters, how many people do you suppose want to watch someone take a shit? I realize that there actually are a few. It's safe to say that those people are several sigmas out from normal, whereas people who watch porn are not.

The average man (I can't say anything about women because I can't recall ever discussing it with one) watches people having sex as a way of fantasizing that he's having it. Not many people fantasize about taking a shit. Most of us who eat a healthy diet take a shit once or twice a day so it's not hard to wait for the next one. It might be quite a bit longer wait for the next fuck.

 

[adoucette]

it wasn't a snide remark about having a daughter. it was a legitimate question that i asked twice, and blatantly did not receive an answer to, which i can only assume is a way of avoiding the extremely valid point i'm making.

Lori,
I owe you no details about my family and so it's just too bad that you think you are entitled to that kind of information or make assumptions because I don't provide it.
Arthur

 

[adoucette]

May I please see the figures on that?Sure, but volume counts. These days downloads are the biggest vector for porn. Most people want to watch it in private, not in a theater where anything they do would be prosecuted as public indecency.

http://www.forbes.com/2001/05/25/0524porn.html

The Business Of Smut: What Is It Worth?
Adult Video $500 million to $1.8 billion
Internet $1 billion
Pay-Per-View $128 million
Magazines $1 billion
Total $2.6 billion to $3.9 billion

Sources: Adams Media Research, Forrester Research, Veronis Suhler Communications Industry Report, IVD

To put the Porn industry in perspective, just ONE mainstream movie, Dead Man's Chest came away as the top-earning movie of 2006 and brought in more than $1 billion in worldwide receipts.

Arthur

 

[Lori_7]

That's hardly a "valid" point. We all know (or for the goddess's sake we should know) that emotions cloud judgment. This is the reason, for example, that people bereaved by crime should never be allowed to make policy: the experience has made them, at least temporarily, selfish, irrational and consumed by vengeance, the most evil of all emotions.

i was referring to the point i made in post #23, and i think it's extremely valid.

So to assume that a person who has a daughter might feel differently about pornography than one who does not may very well be correct, but it says nothing about which of them has the better judgment and which of them we should listen to. Besides, once the daughter reaches the age of majority, which is eighteen in most of the USA, she has the right to make her own decisions about both career and morality.Speaking of shit, you sure don't know shit about porn or why people watch it. Just for starters, how many people do you suppose want to watch someone take a shit? I realize that there actually are a few. It's safe to say that those people are several sigmas out from normal, whereas people who watch porn are not.

The average man (I can't say anything about women because I can't recall ever discussing it with one) watches people having sex as a way of fantasizing that he's having it. Not many people fantasize about taking a shit. Most of us who eat a healthy diet take a shit once or twice a day so it's not hard to wait for the next one. It might be quite a bit longer wait for the next fuck.

i was speaking figuratively, OF COURSE, about the shit, and the crime. what i mean is, and i have explained this in previous posts, that porn takes something (sex) that should be valued and meaningful, creating an intimate bond between people that goes way beyond the physical, and reduces it down to nothing but a physical (and degrading imo) act.

just because a lot of people don't agree, or don't want to hear what i'm saying, does not mean i'm out of line.

 

[Lori_7]

Lori,
I owe you no details about my family and so it's just too bad that you think you are entitled to that kind of information or make assumptions because I don't provide it.
Arthur

fine. you could have said that. you could have said something. we could have done a hypothetical right? i wasn't trying to offend you, or gather details about your family. i was trying to make a point, that i bet you actually agree with. if you have a daughter, i'd bet damn good money you wouldn't want her anywhere near the porn industry. and if you would, then you're a creep. case closed. i'm outta here.

 

[Nasor]

now let me add a rhetorical question. to all who think that porn is just okey-dokey, would you want your son or daughter in the industry? why not? and if it's not ok for your son or daughter then why in the hell do you think it's ok for anyone else's son or daughter? because EVERYONE is SOMEONE'S son or daughter. grrrrrr.....

To answer your question, no, I wouldn't want my hypothetical daughter to go into porn. But that's true of plenty of careers, and it doesn't mean that they are "criminal" careers, or that the people who work in them are immoral. Much like being a janitor or any other low-status job, going into porn is usually a sign that a person's life as gone pretty seriously off-track. There's also a very heavy social stigma to working in the porn industry that is far out of proportion to any actual "harm" that the industry does to society, which is something that I would hope my daughter could avoid. If the porn industry were a respected, well-paying profession, then I probably wouldn't have a problem with my hypothetical daughter doing it.

As for the original topic (HIV in porn), the odds of contracting HIV from someone during a single incidence of sex with an infected person are actually very low. It's unlikely that it would lead to an "epidemic" in the porn industry.