Until you give all animals equal rights to humans,

[EmptyForceOfChi]

I think I got it.

But all life ISN'T equal. I'm sorry. And you're going to get ahead based on being better, and if you're weaker, you get exploited. Life isn't fair. Now, ethics keep us with that clever little thing we call "civilization." I like it, so I support certain ethic principles that I think make the world better. To say all life is equal is to say it's all equally worthless, which throws a big old dada-esque monkey wrench in the mix.

All living things are equal, we all have the same fate and run the same corse here on earth. Life and death, those are the 2 conditions and there are no rules to the game. You are superior to a tree?, why because you can cut it down and take it's life. It does not make you more worthy of life soley because you can end it's life: are you better equiped for survival compared to a king crab that can walk along the bottom of the deep sea beds?> maybe it@s the human condition that makes you all think you are born superior> to be superior in every enviroment and every condition in the univere or on earth alone< you would need to be someting other than human> your basic humanis a large form of bacteria unless you train the saplings well and purify them and teach self control>


gosh if i stuck you in the amazon without clothes how good would you do without years of training> i mean me personaly it would be a great trip and adventure> but would you or anyone else fancy a nice trek through some of the worlds natural wild landscapes?> how about the nort pole? sahara desert? siberia? mongolian mountain range?> you aquire bragging rights when you have walked the path of the animals that inhabit these treacherous hellish terrains >


peace

 

[takandjive]

All living things are equal, we all have the same fate and run the same corse here on earth. Life and death, those are the 2 conditions and there are no rules to the game. You are superior to a tree?, why because you can cut it down and take it's life. It does not make you more worthy of life soley because you can end it's life: are you better equiped for survival compared to a king crab that can walk along the bottom of the deep sea beds?> maybe it@s the human condition that makes you all think you are born superior> to be superior in every enviroment and every condition in the univere or on earth alone< you would need to be someting other than human> your basic humanis a large form of bacteria unless you train the saplings well and purify them and teach self control>

Yes, I am superior to a tree. And to a lot of things, and even some people, because I understand the machinations of nature and society and a number of things because of adaptability, reason, etc. Being human gives me the unique ability to apply very complex systems and meanings to things.

gosh if i stuck you in the amazon without clothes how good would you do without years of training> i mean me personaly it would be a great trip and adventure> but would you or anyone else fancy a nice trek through some of the worlds natural wild landscapes?> how about the nort pole? sahara desert? siberia? mongolian mountain range?> you aquire bragging rights when you have walked the path of the animals that inhabit these treacherous hellish terrains >

I lived in the desert a month. I'm probably more of a survivalist than your ass. I respect nature and know it's rather indifferent. Have you spent much time camping/boondocking for extended periods off road? Please. Tell me about it.

 

[swarm]

I find it ironic when people want the benefits of being top predator, but they shirk the responsibility.

Cows are designed by evolution to be eaten by predators, who at the moment happen to be us. IF we don't eat them they will over bread and destroy their ecosystem.

Its been tried before with deer after Bambi came out. A ban on human hunting. The devastation was horrendous. Forests stripped of every bite. Starving, diseased, dead and dying deer every where. A deer holocaust.

 

[swarm]

I lived in the desert a month. I'm probably more of a survivalist than your ass. I respect nature and know it's rather indifferent. Have you spent much time camping/boondocking for extended periods off road? Please. Tell me about it.

Sounds fun. Living off the land is hard work. Sure makes one appreciate agriculture.

 

[Asguard]

EmptyForceOfChi try surviving the common cold without moden meds, moden nutrictrition ect

 

[takandjive]

Sounds fun. Living off the land is hard work. Sure makes one appreciate agriculture.

Oh, yes. And running water. And razors.

 

[swarm]

You should learn to knap flint.

 

[Randwolf]

Humans have souls when animals don't.

Prove that animals do not have souls. Evidence?
For that matter, prove that people do have souls. Evidence?

And to eat the flesh of another human is defiling, and sick.

According to that culture in which part of time? Under all conditions? You do recognize that cannibalism exists / has existed, right?

Doesn't your current attitude exist because your god whispered it in your ear? Or perhaps some other person told you so, or you read about it in a book of fiction?

Are there any exceptions to "eat[ing] the flesh of another human is defiling, and sick." What about the famous case of the airliner crash in the Andes? Would you have sooner starved? Ah, that's what you say now, from the comfort of your armchair...

 

[Pandaemoni]

Shut up about Ethics, ethics are not ethical if it's selfish.


Don't tell other people what's right and wrong when you yourelf are not pure, who are all of you to judge ethical standards of other living creatures, mind your own business unless your trying to become perfect and pure yourself.

Next time you eat a piece of meat, (that you cowardly did not kill yourself) think about how you would taste in my burger, because I dont find it wrong to shoot you anymore than shooting a pig. your all the same, little animals. most of you are only alive because the system protects the weak, you would be a meal and some hide without protection from the bad people.


If you live by the gun you die by the gun, so when you cry over your loved ones graves when they pass, remember all the lives you have contributed to taking. yes lives animals had lives too.

For the cocky people that are thinking that insects and dumb little cows are not worth of life as much as we are, how would you really act if I had a shotgun and blew off your right leg then pointed it at your face. I bet you would'nt think "circle of life, part of the food chain" then would you. you would be screaming for help like a little baby. where I would be reaching for my pistol to fire back with a smile on my face.

You love how that meat tasted, but your just a walking sack of meat to dont ever forget that and start thinking your superior and more deserving of life because your not and I would be able to take the life of every one of you here, nobody is untouchable. Don't throw lives away so carelessly, even if it's just an ant avoid it if you can. Don't just step on it.



peace.

EmptyForceofChi:

Shut up about Ethics, ethics are not ethical if it's selfish.

Don't tell other people what's right and wrong when you yourself are not pure, who are you to judge ethical standards of other living creatures, mind your own business unless your trying to become perfect and pure yourself.

Next time you eat a plant (how cowardly that you feed on a lifeform that cannot defend itself at all) think about how you would taste in my salad, because I don't find it wrong to julienne you and cover you in a dijon dressing you anymore than you would eating soy products. You're all the same, little lifeforms that think its okay to eat plants and not animals despite the fact that oplants are simply our more distant relations. You are only alive because the system protects the weak and stupid, you would be a meal for mushrooms without protection from the bad people.

If you live by the salad fork you die by the salad fork, so when you cry over the graves of animals that the rest of our kind have been eatinmg for millennia, remember all the lives you have contributed to taking. yes lives plants had lives too.

For the cocky people that are thinking that plants and brainless little fungi are not worthy of life as much as animals are, how would you really act if I had a shotgun and blew off your right leg then pointed it at your face? I bet you wouldn't think "circle of life, part of the food chain" then would you? You would be screaming for help like a little baby. I would be reaching for my pistol to fire back with a smile on my face.

You love how vegetable matter tastes, but your just a walking sack of organic molecules. Don't ever forget that and don't start thinking your superior and more deserving of life than plants and fungi because your not and I would be able to take your life at any time because you are a protein deprived pussy, and nobody is untouchable. Don't throw plant lives away so carelessly, even if it's just a blade of grass. Avoid it if you can. Don't just step on it.

If you were a real man, you'd let yourself starve to death rather than eat the product of any living being.

peace.

 

[codanblad]

i agree with the OP but i'm too lazy to be a vegetarian all the time. i'm gonna try a different angle.

If we should be allowed to eat meat because we're superior, should royalty be allowed to eat peasants?

If we're allowed to eat meat cos they don't tell us not to, can we eat all disabled people?

if we're allowed to eat meat because animals are dumb, can we eat dumb people?

if we're allowed to eat meat cos we're humane when we kill them, can we eat people we killed humanely?

"but it'd eat me too!" i don't think sheep or cows eat meat. they don't have higher reasoning, they don't know that they're causing suffering just cos they like steak.

when an animal resists being slaughtered, wouldn't u describe that as indicating it doesn't wish to be ur dinner? thats the only way they can tell us, they don't speak english.

At the end of the day, most people are fine with the fact an animal suffered so they can have tasty lamb chops. so as long as that person's ok with the kind of person they are, whatever. the gods will punish or we'll all turn to dust, either way shit'll get sorted.

 

[Asguard]

codanblad actually the operning post goes further than that suggesting that eating ANYTHING is wrong. However nature designed us in the way that we MUST eat or we die, hence eating is not immoral

 

[codanblad]

codanblad actually the operning post goes further than that suggesting that eating ANYTHING is wrong. However nature designed us in the way that we MUST eat or we die, hence eating is not immoral

i went and had a look again, my understanding is the author thinks its wrong for us to kill any living creature to eat it. providing their view of animal rights don't extend so far as respecting the dead, maybe we can eat meat providing the animal died of natural causes?

however assuming they're advocating vegetarianism, what's in meat you can't find elsewhere? i did an introductory course in naturopathy at uni as an elective, the lecturer went into some depth explaining that vegetarians can get everything they need so long as they're know what they're doing. he wasn't advocating that though, i think he's worked with a lot of iron-less girls in his career.

 

[Nasor]

Don't tell other people what's right and wrong when you yourelf are not pure, who are all of you to judge ethical standards of other living creatures, mind your own business unless your trying to become perfect and pure yourself.

Your logic (if you can call it that) doesn't hold up here. My doctor might be fat and out of shape, but that doesn't mean he's wrong when he tells me I need to loose weight and exercise.

 

[Pandaemoni]

i agree with the OP but i'm too lazy to be a vegetarian all the time. i'm gonna try a different angle.

If we should be allowed to eat meat because we're superior, should royalty be allowed to eat peasants?

If we're allowed to eat meat cos they don't tell us not to, can we eat all disabled people?

if we're allowed to eat meat because animals are dumb, can we eat dumb people?

if we're allowed to eat meat cos we're humane when we kill them, can we eat people we killed humanely?

"but it'd eat me too!" i don't think sheep or cows eat meat. they don't have higher reasoning, they don't know that they're causing suffering just cos they like steak.

when an animal resists being slaughtered, wouldn't u describe that as indicating it doesn't wish to be ur dinner? thats the only way they can tell us, they don't speak english.

At the end of the day, most people are fine with the fact an animal suffered so they can have tasty lamb chops. so as long as that person's ok with the kind of person they are, whatever. the gods will punish or we'll all turn to dust, either way shit'll get sorted.

The actual reason we eat meat is not any of those reasons, it's just a combination of the biological necessity of consuming other life forms to survive (as all animals must until purely artificial foods are developed) and custom. We eat animal and vegetable matter generally because we evolved to do so. We eat particular animals (and leave other animals uneaten) based on the vagaries of fate and custom that have led us to this point.

The reason we do not generally eat humans is largely the latter....it is not our custom (though it certainly has been the custom of some peoples). More generally, we are a social species, and we certainly would have difficulty maintaining a stable society if our neighbors feared that were eyeing them as a potential food source, so there could be some generalized desire to cooperate built into us that further vacks up the "no cannibalism" rule, but it is obviously a weak rule given the frequency with which cannibalism pops up even in our own western history.

"Ethics" themselves (in my view) are not objective rules that exist in the universe, but rather it is the study by humans, as social animals, of the social rules that we developed in order to maintain stable societies. Many philosophers, especially in the past,, fell into the trap of thinking that there is one "correct" set of ethics, and that leds them to view the inconsistent practices of other cultures as "wrong." In reality, any set of rules that allow for social stability should be considered a "valid" set of ethics. Those rules and behaviors that promote stable and orderly societies we call "good" and those which tend to destabilize we call "bad."

There are, in that view, sets of valid, self-consistent ethical rules that require all-vegan populations. That said, there are obviously also separate sets of valid ethical standards that allow for we, the omnivores. To date meat eating has dominated over strict vegetarianism in human practice.

 

[Baron Max]

Your logic (if you can call it that) doesn't hold up here. My doctor might be fat and out of shape, but that doesn't mean he's wrong when he tells me I need to loose weight and exercise.

In reading the OP, I get the feeling he's not talking about ethics so much as how all of us are blatantly hypocritical ...just like your fat doctor. The doctor isn't wrong, or unethical, in telling you to lose weight, but he IS being a freakin' hypocrite.

Ditto, per the OP, humans are being hypocritical if they claim anything about "human rights" yet not hold those same "rights" for other animals. Humans are, after all, just another animal in the world.

Baron Max

 

[codanblad]

The actual reason we eat meat is not any of those reasons, it's just a combination of the biological necessity of consuming other life forms to survive

There are, in that view, sets of valid, self-consistent ethical rules that require all-vegan populations. That said, there are obviously also separate sets of valid ethical standards that allow for we, the omnivores. To date meat eating has dominated over strict vegetarianism in human practice.

the reason i don't eat people is the same reason not to eat animals. its causing pain for something i don't need. the benefits of maintaining social stability are indeed present though.

we don't HAVE to eat meat, as far as i know its not a biological necessity. everything in meat is in vegetables. people who cannot afford another food source, or can't get enough iron and protein in their diet without meat, them killing something to survive is justified. but for a lot of people who aren't in poverty, its just a choice.

i'm not advocating veganism, just vegetarianism. what's the point of the ur last paragraph? we haven't done it before so why start now? i'd argue that killing an animal, cos you feel like having steak, is unethical, even if its what we've done for a long time. meat eating has dominated because at times (definitely not now, for anyone working class+ in civilized world) its been necessary for survival, and also because a lot of people don't give a shit about the pain an animal goes through, its overshadowed by their enjoyment of lamb chops.

also, good post baron.

 

[Asguard]

i went and had a look again, my understanding is the author thinks its wrong for us to kill any living creature to eat it. providing their view of animal rights don't extend so far as respecting the dead, maybe we can eat meat providing the animal died of natural causes?

however assuming they're advocating vegetarianism, what's in meat you can't find elsewhere? i did an introductory course in naturopathy at uni as an elective, the lecturer went into some depth explaining that vegetarians can get everything they need so long as they're know what they're doing. he wasn't advocating that though, i think he's worked with a lot of iron-less girls in his career.

plants are alive to and if you read through some of the other posts latter on he implies at least that hes also refering to trees and other plants

as the ONLY thing we can get from the sun (directly) is the hormon vit D we would all be fucked if we followed his line of reasoning. However i do conceed that carrion maybe alowed. Whos first to eat the road kill?

 

[Asguard]

oh and BTW, the essential fatty acids which are found in seafood and make up the mylon sheaths (i think) around our nerons. We cant make, we cant get enough from plants or even most meat. The ONLY abundent source is shellfish

 

[Norsefire]

If we should be allowed to eat meat because we're superior, should royalty be allowed to eat peasants?

Royalty and peasantry are not inherently superior; they are just superficial titles.

However, if your question is "should the strong be able to eat the weak?"

The answer is yes; it isn't that I am evil or immoral, it's that there IS NO morality. Life is this way. That's that.

If we're allowed to eat meat cos they don't tell us not to, can we eat all disabled people?

Sure we could. I don't want to, though. And that little thorn in our side called "the law"

if we're allowed to eat meat because animals are dumb, can we eat dumb people?

Sure

if we're allowed to eat meat cos we're humane when we kill them, can we eat people we killed humanely?

Absolutely.

Again, I wouldn't; but technically, you do what you do. There is no right and wrong.

when an animal resists being slaughtered, wouldn't u describe that as indicating it doesn't wish to be ur dinner? thats the only way they can tell us, they don't speak english.

Even if it doesn't want to be my dinner, I do want it to be my dinner, and I am superior to it.

At the end of the day, most people are fine with the fact an animal suffered so they can have tasty lamb chops. so as long as that person's ok with the kind of person they are, whatever. the gods will punish or we'll all turn to dust, either way shit'll get sorted.

I don't apologize for being intellectually superior to cows; I take advantage of this detail and use it to my benefit and pleasure

As we should all. There is nothing wrong with eating meat.

 

[takandjive]

oh and BTW, the essential fatty acids which are found in seafood and make up the mylon sheaths (i think) around our nerons. We cant make, we cant get enough from plants or even most meat. The ONLY abundent source is shellfish

Also, B12 is only found in animal products.