Understanding God

[TruthSeeker]

Yes but the question is: Does he want to stop someone who loves evil and hates the will of God following their will? Scriptures reveal that those who love unrighteousness are given over to delusions and deceptions.

Tell me of a single person who is born unrighteous and I will agree with you.
Furthermore, there is no "evil" person. Their way may be evil, but they, themselves, are not. There's no such thing as an "evil person".

I never have and i doubt anyone alive ever has.

Ok, but what I'm asking is... is it possible to consicously experience eternity under any circumstance?

Nope. But i expect to be murdered for my beliefs one day and i expect it to be done by beheading. I believe the near future will be the most terrible times on earth since the dawn of man. I can see much starvation happening all over this world not just in Africa. The peace that i know is not reliant on material backing.

I highly doubt anyone on this planet know true peace. And that includes you.

 

[Non-Logical-Idea-Guy]

no human can understand god

 

[TruthSeeker]

I believe one should believe and accept the Words of Jesus. And a part of that is loving ones enemies and not taking part in war.

Do you really understand the significance of that scripture? If you love your "enemy", is that really your "enemy" anymore?

Sure, "accept" what Jesus teach. I go beyond that, however. It is very welcomed.

But your posts is about one striving for self justification by achieving or working towards world peace. See your falling into the trap that so many fall into of trying to pay for eternity with God.

I'm not trying to "pay my way into heaven". In fact, I'm not concerned with heaven at all. That's not my concern. I work towards peace out of my heart. Besides, it is our duty to carry the cross of Jesus. I carry it, and I do it joyfully. I enjoy it. It's challenging and exciting. I don't do this to go to heaven. To do this to pay for heaven would make me a naive selfish person, which is exactly what I'm not. I give of myself not because someone told me to do it, but because it is part of my own principles and my natural personality.

As prophecy reveals there will be no world peace until after the Messiah Jesus returns and establishes it on earth.

That's exactly what the devil wants you to think. It is all so convinient for you. You have no part to play here, it is so convenient. You see, if all "christians" believe that and don't carry the cross, there is no world peace. But only those who carry the cross are truly his disciples. People like that young girl who died in the beginning of the Iraq war, crushed by a tank while protesting for Peace. I don't care if she said "I accept Jesus in my heart, DUH". I don't care. I know she's in heaven now, and she is one of the few who touched my heart.

True chrsitians are Peacemakers. They don't just sit around on a couch saying "praise the lord" while watching the war on Iraq. No such person will make to heaven.

The kingdom of heaven is within us. God is within us. The second coming is us.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

no human can understand god

*************
M*W: "No human can understand god," because there is no such thing as god.

 

[Adstar]

Tell me of a single person who is born unrighteous and I will agree with you.

Well when we are born we are without the knowledge of Good or Evil so no one is born unrighteous. But once someone comes to the understanding of Good and Evil then they use both and therefore become unrighteous.

Furthermore, there is no "evil" person. Their way may be evil, but they, themselves, are not. There's no such thing as an "evil person".

Of course there are evil people who take great delight in inflicting evil upon others. I find it astounding that a person could actually believe the above statement. This is probably the foundation of all your beliefs, That all people are basically good. But if your foundations are faulty whatever you build upon the foundations will not stand up to reality and it will crumble and fall.

Ok, but what I'm asking is... is it possible to consicously experience eternity under any circumstance?

I don't think so. I don't believe our minds are wired with the ability to experience it.

I highly doubt anyone on this planet know true peace. And that includes you.

You are free to believe what you will leads you to believe.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Killian_1_4]

Well good and evil don't really exist, in the sense that they're just our subjective perceptions of human behavior.

 

[TheMidnight12AM]

Let me try to address your questions.

1) Almost all Christian branches will require this. The Scriptures make it quite clear that acceptance of Jesus Christ is a requirement to get into heaven. There are some vague exceptions in Revelation concerning Jews and the nation of Israel, but that is beyond the scope of my reply. There are plenty of apologists for this point, but the entire purpose of Christianity is built around the concept of saving grace from God in the form of Jesus Christ. Without Jesus, Christianity would simply be theism or Judaism. Basically, I can't say much to this other than it's what the Bible teaches, and if we misinterpreted the whole thing, then uh-oh.

2) As Southern Baptist, I believe in a concept called the "age of accountability." It's based on a verse in Deuteronomy that states a person is not divinely responsible for their acts until age 20. In the New Testament, this becomes a mental age. So babies, mentally incapacitated, young children, etc are pardoned and granted immediate entrance into heaven if they die before the age of accountability, which in our doctrine varies with the individual, i.e. when they are mature enough to understand the Scripture and its gravity.

3) This one is interesting. The Bible hints a lot about heaven but doesn't give us a complete picture. Jesus speaks of mansions, and Revelation speaks of a great city. The biggest hint in Revelation is that of a new heaven, new Earth, and new Jerusalem, and there is a passage about the old heaven and earth being passed away and consumed by fire. What this means to me is that the afterlife and the future, new creation after the end of this one is physical in nature, but not physical as we know it. There are hints about our capabilities in the resurrected body of Christ, i.e. we will not be limited by time, space, gravity, disease or age. The future existence is largely described as eternally praising God, but that sounds boring. I imagine there's a lot more to it. It's probably not possible for us to imagine everything that will be going on, but we are God's favored creation, so there's something exciting for us beyond the grave, I would guess. Jesus also mentions our treasures on Earth aren't worth anything once we're dead, so you're right about God being non-materialistic.

4) God is typically described metaphorically in the Bible. He's trying to convey attributes about an infinite spiritual being to finite, physical beings in a limited language and intellect, so it's natural that he would use images familiar to us to describe himself in the Bible. However, it's not limited to human images. God describes himself as a door, a bird, a shepherd, and abstract ideas like love and light. The "old man" image comes from the frescoes by Michelangelo and earlier medieval artists. There is no basis for the old man image in the Bible. It is merely from popular culture.

Understanding God isn't knowing the Bible front-to-back, memorizing facts and figures, or knowing how God makes decisions like a computer program. The reason we can know God personally is because God seeks a personal relationship with all of mankind, like he envisioned it in Eden. We can know God personally through an intimate relationship with him through Jesus Christ. That is the basic message of Christianity: of God's love for his creation and desire to fellowship with him. The God of the Bible is not a deistic God. He is both transcendent (beyond space and time) and with us (within space and time and ourselves).

 

[SetiAlpha6]

2) As Southern Baptist, I believe in a concept called the "age of accountability." It's based on a verse in Deuteronomy that states a person is not divinely responsible for their acts until age 20. In the New Testament, this becomes a mental age. So babies, mentally incapacitated, young children, etc are pardoned and granted immediate entrance into heaven if they die before the age of accountability, which in our doctrine varies with the individual, i.e. when they are mature enough to understand the Scripture and its gravity.

Midnight,

I have never seen this stated anywhere in the Bible. Where is this stated in Deuteronomy? Could you please provide me with a quote or verse reference?

Thanks!

 

[TruthSeeker]

Well when we are born we are without the knowledge of Good or Evil so no one is born unrighteous. But once someone comes to the understanding of Good and Evil then they use both and therefore become unrighteous.

People ar enot evil. Some of their actions may be "evil", but they are not intrinsically evil. Their actions change according to their circumstances. People behave "evil" because of the way they are treated, and because of their circumstances. They are not intrinsically evil, in their hearts. Nobody deserves hell.

Of course there are evil people who take great delight in inflicting evil upon others. I find it astounding that a person could actually believe the above statement. This is probably the foundation of all your beliefs, That all people are basically good. But if your foundations are faulty whatever you build upon the foundations will not stand up to reality and it will crumble and fall.

And your foundation states that everyone is intrinsically evil. Which is terrible, and anti-christian. Ever heard "hate the sin, not the sinner"? That's what the "love your enemies" scripture is all about. Your belief that mankind is intrinsically evil exposes an ignorance or at least a lack of understanding of the scriptures.

Nobody is born a serial killer. They become a serial killer through years of systematic abuse inflicted upon them.

I don't think so. I don't believe our minds are wired with the ability to experience it.

So how could you live in heaven for an eternity if your mind can't experience eternity?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Well good and evil don't really exist, in the sense that they're just our subjective perceptions of human behavior.

Yes, they are relative to our subjective perceptions. Good and evil are very unscientific terms. I prefer analysing behaviour in terms of how beneficial it is to the self and to the society as a whole.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Let me try to address your questions.

1) Almost all Christian branches will require this. The Scriptures make it quite clear that acceptance of Jesus Christ is a requirement to get into heaven. There are some vague exceptions in Revelation concerning Jews and the nation of Israel, but that is beyond the scope of my reply. There are plenty of apologists for this point, but the entire purpose of Christianity is built around the concept of saving grace from God in the form of Jesus Christ. Without Jesus, Christianity would simply be theism or Judaism. Basically, I can't say much to this other than it's what the Bible teaches, and if we misinterpreted the whole thing, then uh-oh.

I will assume that you read my whole post.

I don't dispute the acceptance of Jesus. I dispute the meaning of that "acceptance", however. Just a statement that you "accept Jesus as your lord and saviour" or whatever is not logical. Such a requirement is not logical in that sense. However, if you accept Jesus' teachings AND "carry the cross" with him (i.e. live by his teachings, even though you are not perfect), then yes, that makes sense. Sure God has grace. But why would God bring a whole bunch of murderes to heaven? That would make heaven hell! If you are truly purified, "born again", then you must be able to act as though you are born again. If you don't, it is not in your heart and, therefore, it doesn't matter how many times you say you "accept" Jesus, you won't be going to heaven. In order to be born again, you must accept Jesus' teachings, not himself. That's what "born again" actually means. In which case, anyone in the planet who live by Jesus' teachings would go to heaven, even if they never heard of Jesus. That would be a lot more logical in terms of a loving omnipotent God.

2) As Southern Baptist, I believe in a concept called the "age of accountability." It's based on a verse in Deuteronomy that states a person is not divinely responsible for their acts until age 20. In the New Testament, this becomes a mental age. So babies, mentally incapacitated, young children, etc are pardoned and granted immediate entrance into heaven if they die before the age of accountability, which in our doctrine varies with the individual, i.e. when they are mature enough to understand the Scripture and its gravity.

Let's see the verse. In context.

3) This one is interesting. The Bible hints a lot about heaven but doesn't give us a complete picture. Jesus speaks of mansions, and Revelation speaks of a great city. The biggest hint in Revelation is that of a new heaven, new Earth, and new Jerusalem, and there is a passage about the old heaven and earth being passed away and consumed by fire. What this means to me is that the afterlife and the future, new creation after the end of this one is physical in nature, but not physical as we know it. There are hints about our capabilities in the resurrected body of Christ, i.e. we will not be limited by time, space, gravity, disease or age. The future existence is largely described as eternally praising God, but that sounds boring. I imagine there's a lot more to it. It's probably not possible for us to imagine everything that will be going on, but we are God's favored creation, so there's something exciting for us beyond the grave, I would guess. Jesus also mentions our treasures on Earth aren't worth anything once we're dead, so you're right about God being non-materialistic.

Yes, I think you are on the right track. I think the "heaven" will be right here. I think the "fire" actually means purification (it's a very common archetype throughout religions). In which case, hell could also mean a place where people are purified. It's likely that a loving omnipotent God won't live people in a place of eternal damnation for the rest of eternity. As for palaces and cities of gold, those could also have a more symbolic meaning.

4) God is typically described metaphorically in the Bible. He's trying to convey attributes about an infinite spiritual being to finite, physical beings in a limited language and intellect, so it's natural that he would use images familiar to us to describe himself in the Bible. However, it's not limited to human images. God describes himself as a door, a bird, a shepherd, and abstract ideas like love and light. The "old man" image comes from the frescoes by Michelangelo and earlier medieval artists. There is no basis for the old man image in the Bible. It is merely from popular culture.

I can see you are quite well informed!!!

Understanding God isn't knowing the Bible front-to-back, memorizing facts and figures, or knowing how God makes decisions like a computer program. The reason we can know God personally is because God seeks a personal relationship with all of mankind, like he envisioned it in Eden. We can know God personally through an intimate relationship with him through Jesus Christ. That is the basic message of Christianity: of God's love for his creation and desire to fellowship with him. The God of the Bible is not a deistic God. He is both transcendent (beyond space and time) and with us (within space and time and ourselves).

Yes. However, contrary to a lot of christians, I believe Jesus' main purpose was that of a teacher, not a saviour. I think salvation has a lot more to do with the way we live our lives then life after death. Salvation is the kingdom of heaven within us. It's peace of mind and spirit.

 

[shichimenshyo]

When God speaks to me I understand Him because He speaks English and I understand English.

and when He speaks to me He comforts me and fills me with hope and love...and that feels nice.
So, there must be a God...because it feels good.

I hope all of your posts are filled with this much insight

 

[TheMidnight12AM]

It was Exodus, my bad.

Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD.
(Exodus 30:14)

 

[TheMidnight12AM]

Also, try this link:

http://www.gotquestions.org/age-of-accountability.html

 

[Saquist]

Is it possible to understand God? Assuming that God is omnipotent and omniscient, is it possible to understand Him? Well, a lot of chistians speak as though they know God personally. That sounds a little bit arrogant to me. One must be equally omnipotent and omniscient in order to truly understand God. If you are not one with God, you can't understand Him, can you? Now, we only see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face.... from that scripture I deduct that we don't know God now, but someday we will, and I presume that only in death one can truly be one with God. Therefore, it is only possible to truly understand God when you die.

Here are a few claims that chirstians often make that I question:
1) "Acceptance of Jesus" as a requirement to heaven
Now, the reason why this bugs me is that an all-knowing loving God would have to be quite illogical to send a good person to hell. In fact, an all-powerful loving God should be able to prevent people to go to hell, or at least be able to take them out of there, once they arrive there! Why would He let anyone suffer in hell? Of course, people have choices. But while in life some people may doubt there is a heaven and hell, once in hell, nobody would doubt and I suppose anyone in hell would want to get out of hell. So how on earth would God let good people suffer in hell?

Now, I do understand the logic behind the above premise (that is accepting Jesus). Of course, because nobody is perfect, therefore, one must accept Jesus instead of taking the requirement of being perfect. However, considering the apparent nature of God, the above premise would not be logical. If God is forgiving and all-powerful, why can't He just take people ot of hell. Hell, I would go to hell to rescue people. Why not? It's not like I'm staying there forever, if God is with me. Why not rescue people from hell? I don't understand that. If God is like that I truly don't understand Him. And quite frankly, if He cannot help people in hell, then He is not all-powerful, and I would be a little bit disappointed. But, truly, either God is all-powerful and not loving or He is not all-powerful and loving. Otherwise, He would logically be able to help people, getting them out hell.

Another problem with accepting Jesus is that it is hardly fair to send murderers who accepted Jesus to heaven when good people who have done great charities but never heard of Chirst would be sent to hell. That's not wise, not loving and not all powerful. This isn't logical considering the apparent nature of God.

Another thing that tells me this requirement is not only illogical but wrong is the scriptures that say that many who are assumed to be going to heaven will not end up there and many who are assumed to not go there will be there. That tells me that not everyone knows the real requirements for heaven.

I think that the meaning of "accepting Jesus" is where the problem resides. I will get to that shortly.

2) Babies go to hell?
From the above requirement, one can deduct that babies go to hell. Why? Because no baby is capable of "accepting Jesus" before they die! This is just wrong. For an all-powerful loving God... to send babies to hell... I mean.... that's nonsense.

3) The "Kingdom" of Heaven
A lot of Chistians take that literally and claim that heaven has a castle and palaces and other material "goodies". I honestly don't think that make much sense, and would be quite surprised if that was the case. Also, that is a bit stuck in the past. Why would God get stuck in the past with Kingdoms and so on. I think this is just a metaphor to heaven as ruled by God. I think that chirstians who believe that are often materialistic and enjoy having things (I think it was americans who reinforced that belief). I don't believe God is materialistic in nature. I think God doesn't care about materialism like we do (why would He?). And even if we do and He wants to please us, I don't think that would make a lot of sense either, because materialism often come swith greed, which is a sin. I don't think we would need anything in heaven either, so materialism in heaven is completely not a requirement.

4) The image of God
An old man? Why!? If He is all powerful and He exists forever, He should look young! And that's IF He looks at all like us, because that doesn't make much sense either! If He's everywhere, He shouldn't have a visual image like us.



Now... back to point number 1, I think "accepting Jesus in your heart" would be more like agreeing with his teachings, whether then saying out loud that you accept Jesus. If you accept his teachings, you will try to live by them and you will "carry the cross" with Him (that is, trying to make the world a better place and taking the consequences). Otherwise, one may accept Jesus and then murder someone then go to heave. Where's the logic in that? If you accept his teachings, your heart will be purified and you will be able to go to heaven, even if you are not perfect. It's a commitment to God. Not "I accept Jesus as my Lord and saviour". Imagine that. Jesus seeing a whole bunch of murderers going to heaven just because the said "I accept Jesus". Nonsense. As it is written, many who are thought to go to heaven will not, and many who are not, will be there. Because, logically, anyone who is good in their heart follows God and, therefore, should logically go to heaven.

Anyways... that was long....

As I said, I don't claim to know God. This is just logical reasoning based on what's written in the Bible.

Don't take this as arrogant Truthseeker but I know my Father. I use his name and I do pray for his insight unto my life. It is a personal relationship that I can only describe in experiences to convey my trust in his written word. If it wasn't for the scriptures no one could claim that they know him at all. But we...or should I say I, can only know him as much as child can know there father at such a young age. Some us may perceive him as non caring or non existent like an absent father but we're still only dealing with God on the basis of what we know.

I believe I've spoken to you before but I address the tread as a dispassionate question to answered by who ever is intrested to answer an ideed this this is a subject of looked into quite a bit.

I have a apathy for religion. It's become the teaching of interpretations and preception rather than the litteral understanding and a search for God. Christianity bares some heavy charges as well as the other Abrahamic religions. The list is long and well known as to the attrocities that have been carried out for God. People can claim much. They can assume to vouch for him and murder millions in his name it's a constant contradition.

Heaven and Hell is one of those constant contradictions pedanticly maintain in Religion today so these question and acusation are quite understandable.

 

[Adstar]

Do you really understand the significance of that scripture? If you love your "enemy", is that really your "enemy" anymore?

Sure, "accept" what Jesus teach. I go beyond that, however. It is very welcomed.


I'm not trying to "pay my way into heaven". In fact, I'm not concerned with heaven at all. That's not my concern. I work towards peace out of my heart. Besides, it is our duty to carry the cross of Jesus. I carry it, and I do it joyfully. I enjoy it. It's challenging and exciting. I don't do this to go to heaven. To do this to pay for heaven would make me a naive selfish person, which is exactly what I'm not. I give of myself not because someone told me to do it, but because it is part of my own principles and my natural personality.

So if you are doing what you only want to do anyway then where is the burden upon you? What cross are you carrying?

It is easy to do the things we want to do anyway there is no burden there. The burden comes from trusting in God and going places we do not want to go and doing things we do not want to do. Then it becomes a burden.

Many embrace the Words of Jesus that they are in agreement with, and those Words are not a burden at all. It's When they face the difficult Words of Jesus , Things that they find hard to agree with or accept, That's When you will find out who is prepared to carry a cross for the Lord and who is unwilling.

If you love your "enemy", is that really your "enemy" anymore?

An enemy is an enemy because of their opposition to you or what you stand for. You do not need to be their enemy for them to be your enemy. A person can be your enemy irrespective of your love, hate or indifference to them.

So yes there are people who are my enemies in this world, I am not an enemy towards them but they hate me because I Love Him, they hate me because I embrace His Word, They are an enemy towards me.

That's exactly what the devil wants you to think. It is all so convinient for you. You have no part to play here, it is so convenient. You see, if all "christians" believe that and don't carry the cross, there is no world peace.

You are calling the Book of Revelation and the books of the OT prophets books of satan. I tell you most clearly. No matter how much you work for world peace, It will never come through the Work of man. This does not mean that being a peacemaker is a waste of time. We can do much to promote peace and bring about reconciliation between peoples through actions of Love. BUT we will never achieve World peace. That will only be achieved when God Changes people at the resurrection.

But only those who carry the cross are truly his disciples. People like that young girl who died in the beginning of the Iraq war, crushed by a tank while protesting for Peace. I don't care if she said "I accept Jesus in my heart, DUH". I don't care. I know she's in heaven now, and she is one of the few who touched my heart.

You do not know where she is. God knows where she is.

The kingdom of heaven is within us. God is within us. The second coming is us.

The Kingdom of Heaven is the Holy Spirit Working within true Christians. The Second coming and the establishment of the Kingdom on earth is not yet achieved. Jesus will do it upon His second coming.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

People ar enot evil. Some of their actions may be "evil", but they are not intrinsically evil. Their actions change according to their circumstances. People behave "evil" because of the way they are treated, and because of their circumstances. They are not intrinsically evil, in their hearts. Nobody deserves hell.


And your foundation states that everyone is intrinsically evil. Which is terrible, and anti-christian. Ever heard "hate the sin, not the sinner"? That's what the "love your enemies" scripture is all about. Your belief that mankind is intrinsically evil exposes an ignorance or at least a lack of understanding of the scriptures.

Nobody is born a serial killer. They become a serial killer through years of systematic abuse inflicted upon them.

The basis of Christianity is the acceptance that all people are sinners and fall short of what is Good (in the eyes of God good.) So you stance is anti-Christian in the extreme. The very foundation of your thought process is faulty.

Also it is not hate to identify sin as wrong or a sinner as falling short of the Good of God. It is Love to warn and reveal to a sinner that they are a sinner needing forgiveness for their sins. Your statement that We do not need Jesus for salvation runs totally opposite to the revealed truth of the Holy Spirit.

Whatever you are, whatever your beliefs, You are not a Christian.

So how could you live in heaven for an eternity if your mind can't experience eternity?

Because as i have stated before so many times, That upon the resurrection God will Change us. We will not be as we are now. We will be part of a New Creation. Therefore we will be equipped to handle the needs of eternity.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[TruthSeeker]

So if you are doing what you only want to do anyway then where is the burden upon you? What cross are you carrying?

Who said I'm doing whatever I want to? That's exactly what YOU say when you state that just saying "I accept Jesus" is enough! What cross are YOU carrying?

It is easy to do the things we want to do anyway there is no burden there. The burden comes from trusting in God and going places we do not want to go and doing things we do not want to do. Then it becomes a burden.

Yeah, well, and that's exactly with murderes turned "chirstians"....

Many embrace the Words of Jesus that they are in agreement with, and those Words are not a burden at all. It's When they face the difficult Words of Jesus , Things that they find hard to agree with or accept, That's When you will find out who is prepared to carry a cross for the Lord and who is unwilling.

And what are those "difficult words" you have in mind?

An enemy is an enemy because of their opposition to you or what you stand for. You do not need to be their enemy for them to be your enemy. A person can be your enemy irrespective of your love, hate or indifference to them.

So are you saying that you are not in opposition to them or what they stand for?

So yes there are people who are my enemies in this world, I am not an enemy towards them but they hate me because I Love Him, they hate me because I embrace His Word, They are an enemy towards me.

That's not why they hate you. I don't think they give a shit about whether you love God or not.

You are calling the Book of Revelation and the books of the OT prophets books of satan.

Huummm... I wouldn't go that far. I'm sure there is human influence in those books, but they are not completely satan's either, I don't think....

I tell you most clearly. No matter how much you work for world peace, It will never come through the Work of man. This does not mean that being a peacemaker is a waste of time.

Oh REALLY? What does it mean, then?

We can do much to promote peace and bring about reconciliation between peoples through actions of Love. BUT we will never achieve World peace. That will only be achieved when God Changes people at the resurrection.

I don't know. I ain't God so I won't dispute that statement.

You do not know where she is. God knows where she is.

If God is a loving omnipotent, she's in heaven.

The Kingdom of Heaven is the Holy Spirit Working within true Christians. The Second coming and the establishment of the Kingdom on earth is not yet achieved. Jesus will do it upon His second coming.

And what is this "second coming"? Seriously? Are we just going to sit down and wait?

 

[TruthSeeker]

The basis of Christianity is the acceptance that all people are sinners and fall short of what is Good (in the eyes of God good.) So you stance is anti-Christian in the extreme. The very foundation of your thought process is faulty.

Where have I stated that mankind is perfect? Want to call mankind "sinners"? Fine, knock it off. But who said we need to be perfect in order to not be "evil"? This is very black and white thinking. "Oh, I'm not perfect, therefore I must be a demon". Nonsense.

We may not be perfect, but we were still made in His image. Otherwise, we would not be capable of loving.

Also it is not hate to identify sin as wrong or a sinner as falling short of the Good of God.

Where did I say so?

It is Love to warn and reveal to a sinner that they are a sinner needing forgiveness for their sins.

Of course. However, to condemn the sinner for being "evil" does not help one bit.

Your statement that We do not need Jesus for salvation runs totally opposite to the revealed truth of the Holy Spirit.

I don't say we don't need "salvation". Again, what I dispute is the meaning of salvation.

Whatever you are, whatever your beliefs, You are not a Christian.

You are the one who is not a Christian. You are not carrying the cross. It's too much for you, isn't it? No. It's much better to just sit on a couch watching "survivor" and supporting the "war on terror".

Regardless, you are not carrying the cross. You say you are a christian, you probably go to church every sunday, but that's about all you do. I mean... what's the point? Why would God reward people who are not carrying the cross but who state "I accept Jesus" and throw in eternal damnation people who are truly loving and give their whole heart and their own lives to the betterment of mankind as a whole, but who never heard of Jesus or said "I accept Jesus"? Nonsense. A loving, rational, omnipotent God would never behave in such way.

Because as i have stated before so many times, That upon the resurrection God will Change us. We will not be as we are now. We will be part of a New Creation. Therefore we will be equipped to handle the needs of eternity.

Or possibly, our true original nature will be revealed? :shrug:

 

[nova900]

I don't say we don't need "salvation". Again, what I dispute is the meaning of salvation.

Salvation?
Following Jesus by example.
Attain that oneness with God that Jesus had.
This I believe is the ultimate goal.

This concept did not sit well with the early orthodox church fathers so therefore it was more to a political advantage and for their own gain to change it to a personality cult religion.
If you don't "bear the cross" ,to me, it seems more like the easy way out..a copout which I don't believe was the original intent.