Understanding God

[TruthSeeker]

Is it possible to understand God? Assuming that God is omnipotent and omniscient, is it possible to understand Him? Well, a lot of chistians speak as though they know God personally. That sounds a little bit arrogant to me. One must be equally omnipotent and omniscient in order to truly understand God. If you are not one with God, you can't understand Him, can you? Now, we only see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face.... from that scripture I deduct that we don't know God now, but someday we will, and I presume that only in death one can truly be one with God. Therefore, it is only possible to truly understand God when you die.

Here are a few claims that chirstians often make that I question:
1) "Acceptance of Jesus" as a requirement to heaven
Now, the reason why this bugs me is that an all-knowing loving God would have to be quite illogical to send a good person to hell. In fact, an all-powerful loving God should be able to prevent people to go to hell, or at least be able to take them out of there, once they arrive there! Why would He let anyone suffer in hell? Of course, people have choices. But while in life some people may doubt there is a heaven and hell, once in hell, nobody would doubt and I suppose anyone in hell would want to get out of hell. So how on earth would God let good people suffer in hell?

Now, I do understand the logic behind the above premise (that is accepting Jesus). Of course, because nobody is perfect, therefore, one must accept Jesus instead of taking the requirement of being perfect. However, considering the apparent nature of God, the above premise would not be logical. If God is forgiving and all-powerful, why can't He just take people ot of hell. Hell, I would go to hell to rescue people. Why not? It's not like I'm staying there forever, if God is with me. Why not rescue people from hell? I don't understand that. If God is like that I truly don't understand Him. And quite frankly, if He cannot help people in hell, then He is not all-powerful, and I would be a little bit disappointed. But, truly, either God is all-powerful and not loving or He is not all-powerful and loving. Otherwise, He would logically be able to help people, getting them out hell.

Another problem with accepting Jesus is that it is hardly fair to send murderers who accepted Jesus to heaven when good people who have done great charities but never heard of Chirst would be sent to hell. That's not wise, not loving and not all powerful. This isn't logical considering the apparent nature of God.

Another thing that tells me this requirement is not only illogical but wrong is the scriptures that say that many who are assumed to be going to heaven will not end up there and many who are assumed to not go there will be there. That tells me that not everyone knows the real requirements for heaven.

I think that the meaning of "accepting Jesus" is where the problem resides. I will get to that shortly.

2) Babies go to hell?
From the above requirement, one can deduct that babies go to hell. Why? Because no baby is capable of "accepting Jesus" before they die! This is just wrong. For an all-powerful loving God... to send babies to hell... I mean.... that's nonsense.

3) The "Kingdom" of Heaven
A lot of Chistians take that literally and claim that heaven has a castle and palaces and other material "goodies". I honestly don't think that make much sense, and would be quite surprised if that was the case. Also, that is a bit stuck in the past. Why would God get stuck in the past with Kingdoms and so on. I think this is just a metaphor to heaven as ruled by God. I think that chirstians who believe that are often materialistic and enjoy having things (I think it was americans who reinforced that belief). I don't believe God is materialistic in nature. I think God doesn't care about materialism like we do (why would He?). And even if we do and He wants to please us, I don't think that would make a lot of sense either, because materialism often come swith greed, which is a sin. I don't think we would need anything in heaven either, so materialism in heaven is completely not a requirement.

4) The image of God
An old man? Why!? If He is all powerful and He exists forever, He should look young! And that's IF He looks at all like us, because that doesn't make much sense either! If He's everywhere, He shouldn't have a visual image like us.



Now... back to point number 1, I think "accepting Jesus in your heart" would be more like agreeing with his teachings, whether then saying out loud that you accept Jesus. If you accept his teachings, you will try to live by them and you will "carry the cross" with Him (that is, trying to make the world a better place and taking the consequences). Otherwise, one may accept Jesus and then murder someone then go to heave. Where's the logic in that? If you accept his teachings, your heart will be purified and you will be able to go to heaven, even if you are not perfect. It's a commitment to God. Not "I accept Jesus as my Lord and saviour". Imagine that. Jesus seeing a whole bunch of murderers going to heaven just because the said "I accept Jesus". Nonsense. As it is written, many who are thought to go to heaven will not, and many who are not, will be there. Because, logically, anyone who is good in their heart follows God and, therefore, should logically go to heaven.

Anyways... that was long....

As I said, I don't claim to know God. This is just logical reasoning based on what's written in the Bible.

 

[kaneda]

If god is omniscient then he is an immortal puppet who knows what he will do for every second of eternity and can do nothing about it. If he is omnipotent, he can change that but then he is not omniscient as he didn't know he'd do that.

As to the classic image of god, being all powerful he is one of a kind so has no equal, no friends and can love no one. Everyone and everything is as far below him as viruses are below us. He never gets tired so knows no fatigue. He can never be ill, never suffer. What he wants is so he never wants anything. He can never know hate because what he hates cannot survive as can nothing unless he allows it. He can never know want because anything he wants, is!

All conventional matter and energy we know of has very strict limitations so god cannot be made of them. We have more in common with a brick wall than we have with god and he has absolutely nothing in common with us. Anyone who thinks they can share anything with such an impossible being is deluded.

 

[Adstar]

Is it possible to understand God? Assuming that God is omnipotent and omniscient, is it possible to understand Him?

Not totally. But God allows one to understand certain things at certain times. One does not need to totally understand God.

If you are not one with God, you can't understand Him, can you? Now, we only see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face.... from that scripture I deduct that we don't know God now, but someday we will, and I presume that only in death one can truly be one with God. Therefore, it is only possible to truly understand God when you die.

A dim picture can reveal a shape, an outline. But you are right we will not have that clear picture until we die.

Here are a few claims that chirstians often make that I question:
1) "Acceptance of Jesus" as a requirement to heaven
Now, the reason why this bugs me is that an all-knowing loving God would have to be quite illogical to send a good person to hell. In fact, an all-powerful loving God should be able to prevent people to go to hell, or at least be able to take them out of there, once they arrive there! Why would He let anyone suffer in hell? Of course, people have choices. But while in life some people may doubt there is a heaven and hell, once in hell, nobody would doubt and I suppose anyone in hell would want to get out of hell. So how on earth would God let good people suffer in hell?

Now, I do understand the logic behind the above premise (that is accepting Jesus). Of course, because nobody is perfect, therefore, one must accept Jesus instead of taking the requirement of being perfect. However, considering the apparent nature of God, the above premise would not be logical. If God is forgiving and all-powerful, why can't He just take people ot of hell. Hell, I would go to hell to rescue people. Why not? It's not like I'm staying there forever, if God is with me. Why not rescue people from hell? I don't understand that. If God is like that I truly don't understand Him. And quite frankly, if He cannot help people in hell, then He is not all-powerful, and I would be a little bit disappointed. But, truly, either God is all-powerful and not loving or He is not all-powerful and loving. Otherwise, He would logically be able to help people, getting them out hell.

I will answer with an analogy.

A Judge in a human court one day has to sit on a case that involves one of Her daughters. At the end of the trial the jury declares the daughter guilty. Now the Judge must pass a sentence, in this case a mandatory sentence of the death penalty. So the Judge who indeed loves her daughter has to pass a sentence of death upon her daughter because if she does not then she will undermine the system of justice and show herself to be corrupt and nepotistic. So one can indeed love someone and still pass sentence upon them.

Another problem with accepting Jesus is that it is hardly fair to send murderers who accepted Jesus to heaven when good people who have done great charities but never heard of Chirst would be sent to hell. That's not wise, not loving and not all powerful. This isn't logical considering the apparent nature of God.

If one steals a cookie out of their mothers cookie jar than one is guilty of sin and is destined to the lake of fire.

If one builds a home made nuclear device and detonates it and kills hundreds of thousands of people and contaminates million of others condemning them to the rest of their lives of suffering then they have sinned and are destined to the lake of fire.

God is perfect. He will only exist with perfection in eternity. All people are imperfect therefore all mankind fall short of what is required to exist with God in eternity.

Good and Bad to God are absolute terms.

Good and Bad to humans are relative terms.

2) Babies go to hell?
From the above requirement, one can deduct that babies go to hell. Why? Because no baby is capable of "accepting Jesus" before they die! This is just wrong. For an all-powerful loving God... to send babies to hell... I mean.... that's nonsense.

People are going to the Lake of fire because they are not innocent. They have come to the knowledge of Good and evil and use both in their lives. Babies are innocent and have not come to the knowledge of good and evil.

Therefore they Do Not Need a Redeemer.

3) The "Kingdom" of Heaven
A lot of Chistians take that literally and claim that heaven has a castle and palaces and other material "goodies". I honestly don't think that make much sense, and would be quite surprised if that was the case. Also, that is a bit stuck in the past. Why would God get stuck in the past with Kingdoms and so on. I think this is just a metaphor to heaven as ruled by God. I think that chirstians who believe that are often materialistic and enjoy having things (I think it was americans who reinforced that belief). I don't believe God is materialistic in nature. I think God doesn't care about materialism like we do (why would He?). And even if we do and He wants to please us, I don't think that would make a lot of sense either, because materialism often come swith greed, which is a sin. I don't think we would need anything in heaven either, so materialism in heaven is completely not a requirement.

Greed will not exist in eternity with God. The scriptures reveal that upon the resurrection those who will be with God for eternity will have their minds changed. We will not suffer anymore from the effects of greed.

The Kingdom of God exists now in the minds of those who have accepted Jesus. But in the future these people will be resurrected into a real Kingdom of God ruled by Jesus.

So the kingdom of God is both a Kingdom of the Mind and in the future a Physical Kingdom on earth.

4) The image of God
An old man? Why!? If He is all powerful and He exists forever, He should look young! And that's IF He looks at all like us, because that doesn't make much sense either! If He's everywhere, He shouldn't have a visual image like us.

LOL Those images are the creation of false religion. many of them are copies of old pagan images of the old greek gods. Same with the images of Jesus you will see. None of them come from true Christians.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Tiassa]

It's a con. A snow job. Smoke blown.

Just a brief point for now:

Now, the reason why this bugs me is that an all-knowing loving God would have to be quite illogical to send a good person to hell.

There is, in fact, a Christian scholar named Jack J. Blanco who stirred up his own brethren with a trendy kind of book called a "Bible paraphrase". These are exactly what they sound like. "Once upon a time, God created Heaven and Earth, and then ... and then ... and then ...." The idea, of course, is to make the Bible more appealing, to present it in a vernacular form.

Now, this idea is controversial enough, and only gets around the bit about changing jots and tittles and iotas, or whatever, by being intended as a supplement. In other words, the paraphrases are supposed to tell you what the Bible means.

Thus, some were taken aback by Blanco's The Clear Word paraphrase, when in Genesis 3 (one of my favorite conundra in the Bible), Blanco gave away the point that the whole thing is a racket.

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" -- therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken.

(Genesis 3.22-23, RSV)

Three of my favorite questions about the Bible are wrapped up in this one little bit.

(1) Who is God talking to?
(2) Who is "us"?
(3) Why is God so worried that man could become like, well, whoever "us" is?​

Blanco hands over a strange answer. I'm not sure what he was trying to prove. But God is talking to Jesus. "Us" refers to the aspects of the trinity. Everything is going according to God's plan.

Seriously, sounds like a racket. Where you're tripping up, TS, might be on words like "loving God".

It sounds like a con. No wonder Blanco's fellows murmured to hubbub.

(I no longer have regular access to a copy of that book, so cannot at this time offer the direct transcription of those verses.)

 

[greenberg]

I will answer with an analogy.

A Judge in a human court one day has to sit on a case that involves one of Her daughters. At the end of the trial the jury declares the daughter guilty. Now the Judge must pass a sentence, in this case a mandatory sentence of the death penalty. So the Judge who indeed loves her daughter has to pass a sentence of death upon her daughter because if she does not then she will undermine the system of justice and show herself to be corrupt and nepotistic. So one can indeed love someone and still pass sentence upon them.

This is most likely an invalid analogy. Do you have proof that the law of any country actually allows that (close) relatives are involved in a case like that?
AFAIK, another judge would be assigned to the case.

 

[redarmy11]

If one steals a cookie out of their mothers cookie jar than one is guilty of sin and is destined to the lake of fire.

If one builds a home made nuclear device and detonates it and kills hundreds of thousands of people and contaminates million of others condemning them to the rest of their lives of suffering then they have sinned and are destined to the lake of fire.

Good thing I don't like cookies as much as I like building homemade nukes.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Not totally. But God allows one to understand certain things at certain times. One does not need to totally understand God.

And one does not need to totally understand a computer. But if one little piece is missing from the computer, it might not work at all. Likewise, it is very important to fully know God, otherwise, most of what we know is based on speculations!

I will answer with an analogy.

A Judge in a human court one day has to sit on a case that involves one of Her daughters. At the end of the trial the jury declares the daughter guilty. Now the Judge must pass a sentence, in this case a mandatory sentence of the death penalty. So the Judge who indeed loves her daughter has to pass a sentence of death upon her daughter because if she does not then she will undermine the system of justice and show herself to be corrupt and nepotistic. So one can indeed love someone and still pass sentence upon them.

But the judge is not all powerful, however. Truly, what would take for an atheist to believe in God? How about going to hell then be raised from the dead? Why doesn't God briefly shows hell to unbelievers and then send them to heaven? Don't you think the unbelievers would start believing once they are in hell? If God can send Jesus to hell then bring him back, why can't he do that with unbelievers? Isn't Him all-powerful anyways?

If God is loving AND all-powerful, He must be able to save everyone. It seems you forgot He's all-powerful...

I've prayed this to God before, and I'm telling you... if I end up in heaven and there is even one soul in hell, I will go to hell and rescue that soul.

If one steals a cookie out of their mothers cookie jar than one is guilty of sin and is destined to the lake of fire.

If one builds a home made nuclear device and detonates it and kills hundreds of thousands of people and contaminates million of others condemning them to the rest of their lives of suffering then they have sinned and are destined to the lake of fire.

God is perfect. He will only exist with perfection in eternity. All people are imperfect therefore all mankind fall short of what is required to exist with God in eternity.

Good and Bad to God are absolute terms.

Good and Bad to humans are relative terms.

How can a perfect being create imperfect things? Why would He do that, if He can choose to make them perfect? We must be perfect, even though in OUR terms we are not. We ARE perfect and the whole universe is perfect because God's will is paramount and can never be broken. He must have planned for all this, otherwise He is not omnipotent... unless He has elected not to use His powers...

People are going to the Lake of fire because they are not innocent. They have come to the knowledge of Good and evil and use both in their lives. Babies are innocent and have not come to the knowledge of good and evil.

Therefore they Do Not Need a Redeemer.

Well, that IS a good answer.... but a lot of christians would disagree....

Greed will not exist in eternity with God. The scriptures reveal that upon the resurrection those who will be with God for eternity will have their minds changed. We will not suffer anymore from the effects of greed.

The Kingdom of God exists now in the minds of those who have accepted Jesus. But in the future these people will be resurrected into a real Kingdom of God ruled by Jesus.

So the kingdom of God is both a Kingdom of the Mind and in the future a Physical Kingdom on earth.

I don't think Christians truly live in heaven at the moment, quite frankly....
I know I don't... :shrug:

LOL Those images are the creation of false religion. many of them are copies of old pagan images of the old greek gods. Same with the images of Jesus you will see. None of them come from true Christians.

Sure, but a lot of christians believe in an old God....

 

[TruthSeeker]

Three of my favorite questions about the Bible are wrapped up in this one little bit.

(1) Who is God talking to?
(2) Who is "us"?
(3) Why is God so worried that man could become like, well, whoever "us" is?​

Blanco hands over a strange answer. I'm not sure what he was trying to prove. But God is talking to Jesus. "Us" refers to the aspects of the trinity. Everything is going according to God's plan.

Yeah... that bugs me too. I've heard that answer as well... The answer is basically saying "we are a monotheistic religion".

I think the whole genesis is a lot more profound then most people understand. It seems to speak a lot of psychology. The tree of knowledge and the tree of life seem a lot more like symbols then literal trees. To me, I feel as though we have lost our innocence and we now must go on to live and to one day become like God. If you think of human development, the moment that children start losing their "innocence" is when they start speaking. Because once language is used, it seems like they become more aware of the world around them and start understanding the world. The beginning of understanding is the end of innocence. The curious thing is that without laguage we cannot communicate with each other nor truly have the powers that we have. Therefore, in order to become like God, pure and, yet, wise, one must distance themselves from God, go to the "desert" of life and then find Him. And that's a lonely journey for all of us..... We start out pure and unwise, we become impure and unwise, but knowledgeable, and then we find wisdom and become pure again.

 

[TruthSeeker]

One must "eat from the tree of knowledge" before they can "eat from the tree of life" and become One with God.

 

[TruthSeeker]

My son was a little devil on halloween, btw.... LOL!!

 

[DJA]

It seems to me that it is good to think of God as my Father. He certainly teaches me a lot. He hopes I love Him but cannot force me to do so. He hopes that I learn enough from him to come to be with him after I die. He, as my father, agonizes when I am hurt. He does not give up on me when I do wrong. And He will forgive me no matter how badly I hurt him. I can turn from him and never love him again. I can make gods out of so many other things and never be able to love Him because I come to love something else more. And that may make him sad for I may never see Him again. But I long as I can forget myself and forgive myself maybe I will see Him again.
Like my father on earth, I could never know all he knew, nor know all that he felt inside him, nor know all about his life. But what I do know is that he loved me and I love him. And being that my Father in heaven loves me as my Father, I love him too.

 

[Adstar]

This is most likely an invalid analogy. Do you have proof that the law of any country actually allows that (close) relatives are involved in a case like that?
AFAIK, another judge would be assigned to the case.

Ummmm........ It was an analogy......... :bugeye:

Are you seriously trying to undermine my point by saying that because this could not happen in real life then..... Pleaseeeee

I don't believe it are you for real or what?

 

[Adstar]

And one does not need to totally understand a computer. But if one little piece is missing from the computer, it might not work at all. Likewise, it is very important to fully know God, otherwise, most of what we know is based on speculations!

Nope.. God is not a computer.

But the judge is not all powerful, however. Truly, what would take for an atheist to believe in God? How about going to hell then be raised from the dead? Why doesn't God briefly shows hell to unbelievers and then send them to heaven? Don't you think the unbelievers would start believing once they are in hell? If God can send Jesus to hell then bring him back, why can't he do that with unbelievers? Isn't Him all-powerful anyways?

A person could be shown the lake of fire and they would believe in God and do their best to follow his will. But would they be doing it because they believe God is right or would they be doing it because of fear of the lake of fire?

God does not want to rule by fear and intimidation but by admiration and agreement.

If God is loving AND all-powerful, He must be able to save everyone. It seems you forgot He's all-powerful...

Yes God wants to save all people but it takes two to tango. God offers the gift of salvation and we must be willing to take it.

I've prayed this to God before, and I'm telling you... if I end up in heaven and there is even one soul in hell, I will go to hell and rescue that soul.

No you won't. There is a barrier that no one can cross. And those who are with God in eternity will be with Him and those who are in the lake of fire will remain their for eternity.

How can a perfect being create imperfect things? Why would He do that, if He can choose to make them perfect? We must be perfect, even though in OUR terms we are not. We ARE perfect and the whole universe is perfect because God's will is paramount and can never be broken. He must have planned for all this, otherwise He is not omnipotent... unless He has elected not to use His powers...

God allowed the possibility for imperfection and our ancestors took it when satan offered it. Yes God allowed it and has been longsuffering towards it for the eternal good. This universe and this time of existence is very short compared to eternity. We exist in this state of existence only for a lifetime. and that is nothing compared to eternity. You have an eternal perspective. Of course we as limited human beings find it imposable to have an eternal perspective but we understand the difference between 1 second and a thousand years even when that comparison cannot adequately show the difference between our existence here and eternity.

I don't think Christians truly live in heaven at the moment, quite frankly....
I know I don't... :shrug:

I don't need to know where the dead are at the moment. Some say people are in Heaven and Hell, Some say people are in another place. It is not an important issue.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[greenberg]

Ummmm........ It was an analogy......... :bugeye:

Are you seriously trying to undermine my point by saying that because this could not happen in real life then..... Pleaseeeee

I don't believe it are you for real or what?

It was an INVALID analogy. One can't just compare two situations and draw conclusions based on that.

I'm not trying to undermine your point. I'm saying you need to find an analogy that actually applies.

 

[kaneda]

Good thing I don't like cookies as much as I like building homemade nukes.

This is your friendly local FBI agency and we've been bugging your phone since this post you made yesterday. I'm just enquiring as we'd like to know who this Madame Fifi is you've been ringing up and what services she offers, purely for research of course.

If you have any spare cookies, could you take them to the guys in the white van across the road? Their relief will be late getting there.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Nope.. God is not a computer.

Ummmm........ It was an analogy......... :bugeye:

A person could be shown the lake of fire and they would believe in God and do their best to follow his will. But would they be doing it because they believe God is right or would they be doing it because of fear of the lake of fire?

God does not want to rule by fear and intimidation but by admiration and agreement.

Fair enough. Show them heaven, then? Now what is the problem with that?

Yes God wants to save all people but it takes two to tango. God offers the gift of salvation and we must be willing to take it.

You are talking about an all-powerful omniscient being and people who know nearly nothing. It doesn't matter how much will we have, we still have limited knowledge, and that tends to make us make the wrong choice (i.e. "mistake").

No you won't. There is a barrier that no one can cross. And those who are with God in eternity will be with Him and those who are in the lake of fire will remain their for eternity.

Says who?

God allowed the possibility for imperfection and our ancestors took it when satan offered it.

If we "accepted", we were imperfect in the first place.

Yes God allowed it and has been longsuffering towards it for the eternal good. This universe and this time of existence is very short compared to eternity. We exist in this state of existence only for a lifetime. and that is nothing compared to eternity. You have an eternal perspective. Of course we as limited human beings find it imposable to have an eternal perspective but we understand the difference between 1 second and a thousand years even when that comparison cannot adequately show the difference between our existence here and eternity.

How would eternity feel like? I don't think that is even possible for us to experience such thing. Possibly because we are alive...? :shrug:

I don't need to know where the dead are at the moment. Some say people are in Heaven and Hell, Some say people are in another place. It is not an important issue.

No, you were talking about the "heaven in the mind" so I responded "I don't think Christians truly live in heaven at the moment, quite frankly....". I'm talking about the ones that are alive.

 

[Adstar]

Fair enough. Show them heaven, then? Now what is the problem with that?

Then the reason they would be following Him would be for the payment/reward. Such payments are never enough though. Because as we know here on earth people are never satisfied with just riches, people want power.

Once again the right way is to follow God because one knows He is the best One for the position. Not because of Fear or Reward.

You are talking about an all-powerful omniscient being and people who know nearly nothing. It doesn't matter how much will we have, we still have limited knowledge, and that tends to make us make the wrong choice (i.e. "mistake").

"Nearly know nothing" is not the same as knowing nothing, God does not require us to know more than we are capable of knowing. And people chose what they are attracted to. what they think is good. If people are drawn toward evil then their minds and soul are set on evil and they condemn themselves. If one is attracted to Good they will be drawn to what is good.

Adstar:No you won't. There is a barrier that no one can cross. And those who are with God in eternity will be with Him and those who are in the lake of fire will remain their for eternity.
”
TruthSeeker: Says who?

Says the scriptures.

How would eternity feel like? I don't think that is even possible for us to experience such thing. Possibly because we are alive...?

All we can do is understand the concept of a very long time. But you are right we cannot comprehend eternity.

No, you were talking about the "heaven in the mind" so I responded "I don't think Christians truly live in heaven at the moment, quite frankly....". I'm talking about the ones that are alive.

I was talking about the Kingdom of God in the Mind of those indwelled by the Holy Spirit. That is not heaven. Heaven is a place.

So You are right i am not in Heaven at the moment in my mind on earth, But i have the peace of Jesus within me through the Holy Spirit.

I was also talking about the debate within Christianity of what happens to us between our deaths and the resurrection and last judgement.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[TruthSeeker]

Then the reason they would be following Him would be for the payment/reward. Such payments are never enough though. Because as we know here on earth people are never satisfied with just riches, people want power.

Once again the right way is to follow God because one knows He is the best One for the position. Not because of Fear or Reward.

How would anyone know to follow God? This is how things work here. People won't do anything unless there is a punishment or a reward. Those are the two things that motivate people. And who cares if they do it for either reason? If God can save people by showing them hell and kindly warning them..... why not!? Besides, that's what a lot of christians do anyways, warning people about hell....

"Nearly know nothing" is not the same as knowing nothing, God does not require us to know more than we are capable of knowing.

But we don't know enough to logically make the decision of following God.

And people chose what they are attracted to. what they think is good. If people are drawn toward evil then their minds and soul are set on evil and they condemn themselves. If one is attracted to Good they will be drawn to what is good.

I suppose, then, that God created some people to go to hell?

Says the scriptures.

Show me. Plus, why would God create such restrictions? Plus, I've never seen a scripture about "walls", as you put it...

All we can do is understand the concept of a very long time. But you are right we cannot comprehend eternity.

Can a conscious being experience eternity?

I was talking about the Kingdom of God in the Mind of those indwelled by the Holy Spirit. That is not heaven. Heaven is a place.

Earlier you said "Kingdom of the Mind". Is that not heaven, then?

So You are right i am not in Heaven at the moment in my mind on earth, But i have the peace of Jesus within me through the Holy Spirit.

Are you truly in peace?

I was also talking about the debate within Christianity of what happens to us between our deaths and the resurrection and last judgement.

Yeah, I know about that...

 

[Adstar]

How would anyone know to follow God? This is how things work here. People won't do anything unless there is a punishment or a reward. Those are the two things that motivate people. And who cares if they do it for either reason? If God can save people by showing them hell and kindly warning them..... why not!? Besides, that's what a lot of christians do anyways, warning people about hell....

I disagree. there are people who will do things because they think it is right to do them. and there are people who will resist doing things because they think it is wrong. You do not need fear or reward to motivate people who do things because they think it is right.

And yes We warn of Hell and talk of eternity with God, these things can motivate one to seek and give one a sense of how serious the situation is, but it is also my experience that they cannot keep one in the faith. What keeps people in the faith is Love and Admiration of God and what He has done to secure our forgiveness through the Messiah Jesus.

But we don't know enough to logically make the decision of following God.

I believe we do.

I suppose, then, that God created some people to go to hell?

No all men can be convicted of the truth that they are sinners needing salvation. But once a person shouts down their own conscience with their will they Kill that part within them that connects them to God. And nothing one can say to them will move them.

Show me. Plus, why would God create such restrictions? Plus, I've never seen a scripture about "walls", as you put it...

Luke 16
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell[d] from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

Can a conscious being experience eternity?

I don't think anyone on earth can experience eternity.

Earlier you said "Kingdom of the Mind". Is that not heaven, then?

No.

Are you truly in peace?

Yes. I am extremely calm. No matter what the situation. I do not fret or worry anymore.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[TruthSeeker]

I disagree. there are people who will do things because they think it is right to do them. and there are people who will resist doing things because they think it is wrong. You do not need fear or reward to motivate people who do things because they think it is right.

Yes, I do agree with you, actually. However, that is not how most people work.

I believe we do.

If we did, everyone would, which is not the case.

No all men can be convicted of the truth that they are sinners needing salvation. But once a person shouts down their own conscience with their will they Kill that part within them that connects them to God. And nothing one can say to them will move them.

But if God is omnipotent, wouldn't He be able to stop that?

26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

Oh... alright... but could I fly through that "gulf"? I mean... why not?

I don't think anyone on earth can experience eternity.

But can you consciously experience eternity in heaven?

Yes. I am extremely calm. No matter what the situation. I do not fret or worry anymore.

Really? Are you sure your circumstances are not too easy? I mean... you don't live in Africa and you are not starving, right?