(Un)wired For God

scifes said:
which takes us to two: i really believe islam was and is a scapegoat said to cause acts of terrorism, while i think they mainly are reactions to depression more than acts of islam. true, terrorists may paint their actions as religious, and do them in the name of religion, but if there was no islam, would they not have done their acts of "terrorism".
Click to expand...
Here's the thing scifes, everywhere one looks whether it's in China, Thailand, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Europe, India ... everywhere there are a decent number of Muslims there are problems with Muslims killing non-Muslims.

Now, suppose we go back to your "depressed" theory. How do you know it's not Islam that's causing people to be depressed. It's something I've long wondered about and wish we could do a double blind study using fMRI to see if Islam doesn't lead to depression (and aggression) in certain demographics of the population.


Secondly, lets look at the Chinese. OK, China was pretty wealthy. A world player. They fell from those lofty heights. Then they tried Communism. It completely crushed their society. They lost up to 30-50 MILLION people due to starvation alone. One could say yes, here was a depressed people. There are a lot of ex-pat Chinese living all over the world. Many face racism and do it tough. YET, in all this. For these past 80 years - Chinese are not known for being terrorists.

I don't think it has to do with being poor. I don't think it has to do with being depressed. I think it has to do with Islam.


One example is in Indonesia.
Why do you think Indonesian Muslims murder and persecute their fellow Indonesian Muslims (Ahmadis)? Even mainstream polling suggests moderate Muslims what Ahmadis belief legally banned and Ahmadis jailed for continuing to practice their type of Islam.

Why? You don't think MAYBE it has something to do with basic tenets of Islam?
 
For these past 80 years - Chinese are not known for being terrorists.
Click to expand...

Known by whom?

Have you asked the Tibetans? The Muslim Chinese? The Indians who fight them on the borders? You live in a blinkered world

everywhere there are a decent number of Muslims there are problems with Muslims killing non-Muslims.
Click to expand...

And we have a problem with Europeans Americans and NATO killing people in other countries every year since their inception. By the hundreds of thousands, its probably hundreds of millions if you count from their inception.
 
Michael said:
Here's the thing scifes, everywhere one looks whether it's in China, Thailand, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Europe, India ... everywhere there are a decent number of Muslims there are problems with Muslims killing non-Muslims.
Click to expand...
but isn't it because non muslims start killing muslims?:(
don't muslims in this age get killed and slaughtered by the dozens, not as individuals, but as countries, and the world is watching and doing nothing?
if what is happening to muslims happened to non muslims, would they reply by terrorism like muslims? i'm sure you know of some examples, why don't you share them with us?

Now, suppose we go back to your "depressed" theory. How do you know it's not Islam that's causing people to be depressed. It's something I've long wondered about and wish we could do a double blind study using fMRI to see if Islam doesn't lead to depression (and aggression) in certain demographics of the population.
Click to expand...
well because islam makes you happy, that's why a lot of people are converting to islam. that's why utopias existed for periods of time under islamic rule before they were messed up by others.

Secondly, lets look at the Chinese. OK, China was pretty wealthy. A world player. They fell from those lofty heights. Then they tried Communism. It completely crushed their society. They lost up to 30-50 MILLION people due to starvation alone. One could say yes, here was a depressed people. There are a lot of ex-pat Chinese living all over the world. Many face racism and do it tough. YET, in all this. For these past 80 years - Chinese are not known for being terrorists.
Click to expand...
that's so simple, they caused it themselves, we're talking people depressing OTHER people.
I don't think it has to do with being poor. I don't think it has to do with being depressed. I think it has to do with Islam.
Click to expand...
sure, go ahead, you should clear that up..be sure to feed me the results afterwards.

One example is in Indonesia.
Why do you think Indonesian Muslims murder and persecute their fellow Indonesian Muslims (Ahmadis)? Even mainstream polling suggests moderate Muslims what Ahmadis belief legally banned and Ahmadis jailed for continuing to practice their type of Islam.
Click to expand...
well it's also simple, without giving off torturing details, it's because you know nothing of islam, (or very little)
Why? You don't think MAYBE it has something to do with basic tenets of Islam?
Click to expand...
no.


now let me ask you a question, is islam a shared feature of terrorism worldwide?
if yes, then reeducate yourself.
if no, then what is the shared trait between terrorism movements worldwide in your opinion?
 
don't muslims in this age get killed and slaughtered by the dozens hundreds of thousands, not as individuals, but as countries, and the world is watching and doing nothing?
Click to expand...

We don't do body counts

Thats the estimated worth of Muslim casualties in the US and western world. Even the Nazis were better than that.
 
As to the OP,

If we were to divert ourselves into yet ANOTHER SAM-Thread about the USA and Iraq, then we can see that the goals of the USA (productive secular democratic society) will not be met by intermittently bombing Iraqis. Bombing only increases insecurity and increases fear levels and pushes them towards Islam (which itself may perpetuate the situation with yet more violence).

Back when Saddam was the Dictator, many Iraqies had a pretty decent life and many were secular. As soon as they were threatened each person jumped right back into their religion (sunni or shia) and they started killing one another. I think Iraq supports the premise in the OP.

I still feel there are hard-wired neurological bases for religious belief but perhaps it's co-oped by religiosity and not necessarily built for religion itself.


These studies are important steps in our understanding of how to build tolerant multicultural prosperous societies - which will by their very nature tend towards secularism. It's ironic if you are to think about it. As religions met their goals (purportedly world peace) they themselves cease to be relevant. A neat little loop if you think about it. (I wonder if this is why Buddhism is more mind-body? anyway...)


So, another idea that popped into my mind. Chinese have been becoming more and more religious. There is a HUGE influx into the Christian faith (which worries me personally... why couldn't they go Tao or Buddhist). Could this be due to the dramatic changes that happen every day? Even though China is becoming more wealthy, it's a very chaotic and frantic pace of change. Could THIS be the reasoning why Chinese are turning to religion?
 
Last edited:
Michael said:
Explain.
Click to expand...

islam is a concept.

concepts are made up of information.

if such information can be divided into pieces.

then you are holding too few pieces to understand the situation you've given.

apparently, that hasn't stopped you from passing your judgment upon it.
 
scifes said:
islam is a concept.

concepts are made up of information.

if such information can be divided into pieces.

then you are holding too few pieces to understand the situation you've given.

apparently, that hasn't stopped you from passing your judgment upon it.
Click to expand...
please try to make sense. Now once again: Why do you think Indonesian Muslims persecute their fellow Indonesian Muslims (Ahmadis)? Mainstream polling suggests that even moderate Muslims what Ahmadis belief to be legally banned and Ahmadis Muslims jailed for continuing to practice their type of Islam.

Second question: Do you consider Ahmadis Muslims are true Muslims?
 
Michael said:
please try to make sense. Now once again: Why do you think Indonesian Muslims persecute their fellow Indonesian Muslims (Ahmadis)? Mainstream polling suggests that even moderate Muslims what Ahmadis belief to be legally banned and Ahmadis Muslims jailed for continuing to practice their type of Islam.

Second question: Do you consider Ahmadis Muslims are true Muslims?
Click to expand...
ok, what do you know of ahmadi muslims?
what do you know of "normal" muslims?
what do you know of the differences between them? and how they are dealt with? what has happened in indonesia exactly? is it what you claim it to be?

nope, just pick up a a part of some news report and use it to support your argumant, even though you know little or nothing of the situation at hand.


i, for one, don't know enough about "ahmadi" muslims to judge them, tell me how different they are from "normal" muslims and i can tell you what i think of them...

but first..
answer my first question, as you seem to only know how to demand answers without providing any of your own:
scifes said:
now let me ask you a question, is islam a shared feature of terrorism worldwide?
if yes, then reeducate yourself.
if no, then what is the shared trait between terrorism movements worldwide in your opinion?
Click to expand...
 
If a person says they are Muslim then they are probably a Muslim. If a person says he's a Scientologyist then I'd just assume he's a Scientologist :shrug:
now let me ask you a question, is islam a shared feature of terrorism worldwide?
if yes, then reeducate yourself.
if no, then what is the shared trait between terrorism movements worldwide in your opinion?
Click to expand...
Is Islam a shared feature of terrorism worldwide? Nope. Fundamentalism is the problem.
 
sorry michael, that's not how it goes.. when a group of people who follow certain teachings call themselves a certain name, they care if one who doesn't follow their teachings associate himself with their name.

that's common sense, you should know that.
 
earth said:
What Is the Difference Between Sunni and Shiite Muslims--and Why Does It Matter? http://hnn.us/articles/934.html

In Iraq these two sects are killing each other. Mostly likely because one sect thinks the other sect is not a true or in other words a real muslim.
Click to expand...

Or, because the minority Baathist group, which also happens to be Sunni, has been ruling the majority Shia group [whom they consider as less secular] with imaginative methods which include being fed into a wood chipping machine or thrown into acid vats

What is more ingenious however that the American liberators have been using the same cohort of Baathists [now in the new improved version called The Awakening] to "fight al Qaeda in Iraq" @$10-20 a day. Miraculously, once they receive the money and weapons, "al Qaeda in Iraq" is successfully dispatched along with entire Shia neighborhoods that are a threat to their power base.

http://www.gregpalast.com/bushs-fake-sheik-whacked-the-surge-and-the-al-qaeda-bunny/

So who is the real Muslim here?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top