Ufo NUtCAsEs

Yes, about that faster than light travelling..

Were just in 2003...
100 years ago the mainstream science dismissed as hoaxes all the people that said to make flying "cars" (even the wright brothers)

At that time they tought that with speeds above 100km/h (65 miles/h) the internal organs would start to get damaged and a person would die..

And I believe in less than 100 years will find a way to "cheat" the light speed limit...
Even so... getting to the other side of the galaxy will still take dozens of years at a superior speed...

I belive the next 20 years will be more directed to planet searching, using indirect means and finding planets that are similiar to ours in other stars..

We have found more than 100 in just 8 years of "exoplanet exploration".. the near future will be the exploration of space but from our planet :D

in 50 or 100 years... who knows...
 
Originally posted by AlexKN1
This is a perspective from a typical person from a civilization where computers only began ~50 years ago. Why would you see you need a large amount of energy to travel faster than speed of light...read up on the latest science articles...in many cases ..things traveled faster than light.
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Name one thing that has been verified to travel faster than light. Then cite a valid reference to it. Tachyons don't count.... they're theoretical and can only exist if they were created already going faster than c.

So you suggest I read up on the "latest science articles" hmm? Suggest one to me that supports what you are saying.

It is basic physics: E=1/2 M V^2

Using that formula, just to accelerate 1000 metric tons (a reasonable weight for a spacecraft and an easy number to work with) to 0.1c ("c" being the speed of light) would require something on the order of 4.5x10^20 Joules of energy. That's about a year's worth of energy as currently produced by our civilization. I mention this not to imply that any advanced civilization would be using our standards, but rather to demonstrate the enormity of the problem. It isn't simple. Regardless of their advancement, it would be costly.

The next problem would be how to store the fuel for this type of energy, since the fuel's mass adds to the overall mass of the vehicle. The final problem would be where to get the fuel needed to create the energy needed for decelaration.

Now go back to our little math problem and note that we only used "0.1c" or 1/10th the speed of light. Traveling the speed of light requires 10 years to reach the nearest star, at 0.1c it is 100 years. Once you start reaching 0.6c, you begin to see noticable increases in mass... this adds new problems into the equation. Now you read even some old science articles, "buddy."

To suggest that aliens are visiting our planet by traveling faster than the speed of light creates an improbable situation. Not impossible, but highly improbable. It is also very impractical.

Originally posted by AlexKN1
You assume many things, I am backing up my claims with historical facts most of the time.
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I've seen little that would indicate most, but if you say so....

Originally posted by AlexKN1
People started crossing the atlantic, people began using high speed trains, then cars came..., and finally planes that allowed to be somewhere within hours. Why do you assume year 2003 will stop, by saying that those things are not possible, you are saying year 2003 will stay still, that there will never be commercial space flight, that NASA's astrounats will never go to Mars, that computers will always stay 3Ghz. Humans make progress buddy, welcome to the real world.
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Humans will make progress... but progress cannot defeat the speed of light. The laws of physics hold true everywhere else in the galaxy as far as we've been able to observe. In fact, there is no reason why they shouldn't. There is little reason to think that there are different period tables and physical laws at the opposite side of our galaxy or even in other galaxies.

Originally posted by AlexKN1
Currently human are in their very early stages of adolescence. If we want to mature, we will need to make progress,
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And we will also need to seek educations and stop believing in every fool idea that comes along just because you want it to be true. I'm not saying there is absolutely no alien intelligences visiting our pale blue dot... what I'm saying is that it is extremely unlikely and there has been NO data to support otherwise.

Originally posted by AlexKN1
and its not really the progress in technology, its the progress in opening your minds.
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An open mind is different from accepting bullshit. Being critical and skeptical is as much a part of having an "open mind" as being willing to accept a possibility. In fact, making grand statements about our planet being visited aliens and not at least accepting the equal possibility of it being false, is having a very closed mind indeed.

Originally posted by AlexKN1
Its not really opening minds about ETs, its about your mind about the Universe. Its trying comprehend that there is more than to earth.
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Try opening your mind to the enormity of the universe.... that, if you even come close to understanding, will put things into a different perspective.

Originally posted by AlexKN1
We are in our very dangerous stages in of adolescence where its like we are running with real guns (nuclear weapons), as kids do. We cannot be part of the rest of the galaxy or the universe if we can't comprehend that there is something more to earth.
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People used to make this claim back in the 50's about why the Venusians were about to anhilate us/preclude us from entry into the federation/etc. This argument is more grounded in wishes and wants than fact.

Originally posted by AlexKN1
go take a telescope and look at all those stars, look at the hbble telescope pictures of other galaxies. ... Obviusly if in our galaxy planet earth formed with living creatures, may be ... other galaxies formed planets like ours. Are we that special that our planet was the only planet in the whole universe that supports intelligent life. :bugeye: We exist, that gives proof that there its possible that other planets can support life.
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I'm in agreement. As I stated... they probably exist, they just don't exist here.

Originally posted by AlexKN1
I believe that good % of UFOs are ETs, and they don't go announcing because we are not ready. Technology makes progress in our mind, but its slow progress. There are already people who are ready.
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The key word in that passage is "believe." You believe in an idea that cannot be tested (or to date has eluded a valid test) for the reason of providing hope. This is one of the same reasons that people cling to religion and other cults (ufology is very cultlike, and even has rituals to some extent).

UFO's aren't about aliens, they're about us.
 
It is true about the speed of light and nothing can travel faster than it. There are a lot of theories going around about multiple dimensions where your physics don't apply.

I don't care what you say, but I don't our current scientific knowledge is the limit. Everyday I hear some new science news, people making disoveries, and I don't think we will be stuck in this solar system!! forever...if

YOU
WANT
TO
ASSUME
THAT

we will stay in our solar system for the rest of our existance..then you prob belong in a kindergarden.
 
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Originally posted by AlexKN1
There are a lot of theories going around about multiple dimensions where your physics don't apply.
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These aren't my physics! :D They're our physics!

The more interesting theories are to do with multiverse theory... though the most plausible version of this puts another universe at 10^24 meters from Earth... just out of what's considered "hubble space" (within the viewing range of the HST: 10^23 m or so). It's all assumed through math equations that I don't pretend to understand (I'm an Anthropology major), but the gist of it makes sense. You can find an article in the Scientific American of a couple months ago.

I truly hope ET's do visit our planet, now or some day in the future... I just don't see the likelihood of it.
 
I have a gut feeling entities from other solar-systems have visited us time and time again.They said aeroplanes could never be done, they are saying ufos could never be done at this time, but in the future i can guarantee ufos will be unveiled.
 
Perhaps nothing I have already seen, to be honest. I know that their are counter-arguments for all the supporting evidence for alien abductions and crop circles. The problem I see is that these counter-arguments only cover 90% or so of the said cases... leaving a good 10% unexplainable.

Not every crop circle is attributable to the Circle Makers - they would have you believe they have done them all, but remember that they haven't been around as long as the phenomenon has been and their work is only in the last few years becomming as good as at least from the air, as legitimate circles. They however, have yet to produce unbroken stalks in any of their circles - unbroken stalks are still the telltale sign of a genuine circle. So long as not all crop circles can be attributed to human phenomenon, something paranormal exists. Genuine pictograph crop circles cannot be attributed to any known natural phenomenon, nor do we know of any natural phenomenon which can produce anything LIKE them to base a speculation on.

Incidently, one should be reminded that the circlemakers say they are in league with many of the farmers, but one ought to be reminded that recently the circlemakers are being arrested when caught (and they do get caught more often than not). Farmers loose large amounts of money on particularly large crop circles. It makes NO sense they would condone the actions of these petty grafiti thugs. The circlemakers website furthermore goes at great lengths to debunk the paranormal explanation of legitimate circles, leaving many to believe that the circlemakers are more likely a group of people so obsessed with debunking the phenomenon that they are resorting to creating false circles to discredit the real ones.

Ask yourself a question: how much monetary backing does this group have to have to create the kind of website it has, and get aireal shots of most of the circles they produce? That is VERY expensive work for a group of rat-tags don't you think?
 
Xevious:

<i>The problem I see is that these counter-arguments only cover 90% or so of the said cases... leaving a good 10% unexplainable.</i>

The unexplained ones are only unexplained due to lack of evidence. There's no reason to propose some extraordinary explanation when a mundane one explains the facts equally as well.

<i>Not every crop circle is attributable to the Circle Makers - they would have you believe they have done them all, but remember that they haven't been around as long as the phenomenon has been and their work is only in the last few years becomming as good as at least from the air, as legitimate circles.</i>

Crop circle makers come in all shapes and sizes. They are not always centrally organised, and they vary in skill and planning. Some are experts at it - some are mere amateurs.

<i>They however, have yet to produce unbroken stalks in any of their circles - unbroken stalks are still the telltale sign of a genuine circle.</i>

How do you know that human circle makers can't do it without breaking stalks? Do you have any evidence for that assumption?

<i>So long as not all crop circles can be attributed to human phenomenon, something paranormal exists.</i>

No, that's completely the wrong way to look at it. If we can't explain how a particular circle was created, we should not instantly jump to the conclusion that "aliens must have done it", or that it has some paranormal cause. Unless there is some evidence of that, it's just pure imagination and wishful thinking to say that.

<i>Incidently, one should be reminded that the circlemakers say they are in league with many of the farmers, but one ought to be reminded that recently the circlemakers are being arrested when caught (and they do get caught more often than not).</i>

This only proves that not <b>all</b> circle-makers are in league with farmers.

<i>It makes NO sense they would condone the actions of these petty grafiti thugs.</i>

Some farmers charge tourists to come and look at their circles. That seems like one reason to me.

<i>Ask yourself a question: how much monetary backing does this group have to have to create the kind of website it has, and get aireal shots of most of the circles they produce? That is VERY expensive work for a group of rat-tags don't you think?</i>

Who said that group is a group of rat-tags? No doubt some of them are quite well off. It's just a hobby.
 
How do you know that human circle makers can't do it without breaking stalks? Do you have any evidence for that assumption?
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Yes, I do. When a crop is bent over by trampling, the the stalk is broken either internally or externally. Crop stalks are a rather hard plant, and can only be bent in any way shape or form during the first few days of their growth. Stop and think about that: these crop stalks grow several feet high, yet are very narrow. No plant can grow that tall without a hard and riged structure to support it's weight. If a crop is damaged, it will certanly be broken internally even if externally no damage is apparent, and it will stop growing and eventually die as a result. Deep roots aren't enough, as any bush, shurb, or potato will show you. The legitimate crop circles aren't at all damaged by the circle, and even continue to grow until harvest time - lasting for weeks and months. Then again, if you read any books on the subject you would know that... and remember that the circlemakers don't even talk about that aspect of the subject.

A friend of mine is a Botanist and she gave me some books on the subject of stalks and was willing to sit down and talk to me about it. For the record she like you is a "skeptic", but when I talk about these things she says she doesn't want to bother her intellect with something unimportant. However, she did make sure I got all of my knowledge on crop stalks right.

The reason I say the circlemakers don't have any such capability is because no botanist, farmer, or horticulture specialist has the ability. It would be public knowledge by now if it was possible. You might of course say "Well, how do you know that?" I'll leave you to the same standard you would demand of me. Find for me, a method of bending crop stalks WITHOUT internally damaging them published in a scientific journal, or farming magazine. If you cannot do that, then I'll say "BS" when the circlemakers say they made such a circle.
 
The unexplained ones are only unexplained due to lack of evidence. There's no reason to propose some extraordinary explanation when a mundane one explains the facts equally as well.
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It seems you haven't looked at that evidence. Their is very strong evidence that some kind of electromagnetic phenomenon is responsible. The "mundane" explanation does not explain the facts well at all, and quite poorly. I'm amazed once again for being a skeptic that you have not well researched the phenomenon. It is at this point I would want to consider you a "pseudo-skeptic" - one who disagrees strongly about a claim without investigating all the facts made by one side.

It isn't up to me to hold your hand and wait on you hand and foot for all the knowledge you aren't reading. I'm NOT your research assistant.
 
Originally posted by Xevious
Yes, I do. When a crop is bent over by trampling, the the stalk is broken either internally or externally. Crop stalks are a rather hard plant, and can only be bent in any way shape or form during the first few days of their growth. .... If a crop is damaged, it will certanly be broken internally even if externally no damage is apparent, and it will stop growing and eventually die as a result. ..... Then again, if you read any books on the subject you would know that... ....The reason I say the circlemakers don't have any such capability is because no botanist, farmer, or horticulture specialist has the ability.
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Again... where's the evidence?

Originally posted by Xevious
Find for me, a method of bending crop stalks WITHOUT internally damaging them published in a scientific journal, or farming magazine.
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Obviously it is possible to "bending crop stalks WITHOUT internally damaging them" since there are crop circles that are done this way (so you say... But I'll accept this as fact). If, as you contend, that this is of some Supernatural force, then it would be up to you to prove it not possible.

I see no reason why they cannot be bent. I've spent a large part of my life in the military and, while on squad patrols in various terrain and environments, we relied upon tracking methods.... to see vegetation that was bent but not broken was very commonplace. No need to publish a journal.... just take a walk sometimes... you may have a hard time finding elephant grass (a close cousin to many of todays food grains), but you should be able to find something.
 
Originally posted by Xevious
It isn't up to me to hold your hand and wait on you hand and foot for all the knowledge you aren't reading. I'm NOT your research assistant.
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Extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence. So far, you've supplied none at all. Just more claims.
 
...

I must tell you this...

UFOs where first spotted during WWI.

Or where they?

Moses taken into the heavens by firey chariots...
Could have been a 'flame shield' around the craft.
They took him to thier planet.

How do they get there? They use the black hole in the center of every galaxy to warp to another.

"Black holes suck up everything, even light. They destroy all matter the same way we rip a sheet of paper in two."

That might be the case, but I believe it works like floo powder in the Harry Potter series. They go into it, then come out where they want. They have explored the universe by this method of travel and have already found their way to earth using the black hole in the middle of our galaxy. Where they come from, I do not know, but I know this: They do exist and they do not want the majority of us to know they are here.

But what do I know, I'm only a child Isolated from most of the world by a barrier know as beliefs.

*Please exuse my poor spelling, as I am certain that I mispelt at least five words.
 
Why not just use the floo powder?

And you are right to understand "beliefs" as barriers. Unfortunately, beliefs in things not grounded in science is the apparent undoing of the intellect within our society.
 
I agree for the most part with everyone that Occam's razor should rule. The simplest answer is usually the best. My question to everyone on this is, Does intelligence, and thus the knowledge of both Occam's razor and the human use of such a concept nullify it? What I mean is, when intelligence is involved you can't simply look at "facts" you must consider that perhaps those "facts" were put there by some intelligence knowing what would be assumed by them.

-AntonK
 
I have to disagree with the lot of you. I didn't read the whole thread. So, if this was touched upon, my apologies with a big FUCK YOU!

Fact is hundred's of people did witness a UFO in Belgium. Fighters were scrambled; they couldn't keep up with the fucking thing! It played cat and mouse with them! Police saw the UFO, triangular in shape, along with a host of various citizens with various degress of education, employment, etc. NATO even admitted they had something on radar that they couldn't explain. Airline pilot's see things in the sky ALL the time, but don't report it for fear of losing their 100K a year job! Would you report such a thing making that kind of cash? Probably not!

Fact is, we are not 'it'. That simple. If one starts adding numbers it's easy to see that there could be many advanced civilizations in the universe! For example, our technology age is, what, 120 years old? The invention of the internal combustion engine, aircraft, computers, etc., all fall within that time frame-give or take a few years. So, if we have been on this planet, say 10,000 years, but on another planet beings have existed for 20,000 years, and considering they advanced just as fast as we did, they are up on us technologically by 10,000 more years! Let's take human brain power-what's the figure, 1/10,000th of our brain we use? So, let's say beings were around as long as us, but they use 10% of their brain, 20% of their brain, heck, maybe even 100% of their brain. There are a lot of variables that people need to look at seriously!
 
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Originally posted by norad
Fact is hundred's of people did witness a UFO in Belgium. Fighters were scrambled; they couldn't keep up with the fucking thing! It played cat and mouse with them! Police saw the UFO, triangular in shape, along with a host of various citizens with various degress of education, employment, etc. NATO even admitted they had something on radar that they couldn't explain.
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Obviously a mass delusion/hallucination/hysteria. If it occured at all. I think it's likely that this is largely an Urban Legend, created ages ago.... it's been going about for a while, but no one at NATO offered to say with official status that "something was there" in connection with this alleged alien craft.

The source of the legend is most likely an F-117 in the early stages of testing and use.. it was flown in various locations around NATO countries to test radar defeating capabilities... it was tested around the time of this alleged alien craft, if I remember correctly. And it happens to be "triangular shaped." Seeing it for the first time during the Gulf War, I remember thinking it was "out of this world!"
 
posted by SkinWalker:

Now go back to our little math problem and note that we only used "0.1c" or 1/10th the speed of light. Traveling the speed of light requires 10 years to reach the nearest star, at 0.1c it is 100 years. Once you start reaching 0.6c, you begin to see noticable increases in mass... this adds new problems into the equation. Now you read even some old science articles, "buddy."

SkinWalker, I believe you are failing to consider SR in your argument.
A "spaceship" traveling at .99c would take appox. 1.426 years to
travel to a star 10 light years away. Also, I believe the nearest star
is 4 light years away, not 10.
The increase in mass at relavistic speeds is only from an outside
frame of reference, the "spaceship" would not notice an increase
if it were self powered (not powered by an external source.)
The 1.426 years is what the occupants of the spaceship would
see, it would be over 10 years from an outside observer,s time.
I am not saying I "believe" the earth is being visited, but I am not
ready to easily dismiss the circumstancial evidence either. No, I
have never seen a "UFO" either.
 
I stand corrected. Probably. :D

I'm an Anthropology major.... the math of physics always gave me a headache anyway :cool:

Thanks for the correction.
 
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