wrong. there is abundant evidence of civilization in the areas west of the nile river in egypt as far back as 10,000 bc. they have even found their huts.shaman_ said:
Topic: Mayan Calender videos, some of the best info i have came accross.
- Thread starter barehandkiller
- Start date
barehandkiller said:
They are the Maya not the "Mayan." In fact, this was the first clue in the lengthy videos you linked to that the now dead Lungold was ignorant at best, a crackpot at worst. Other nonsense in the first video was evidence of the latter. Admittedly, I couldn't be arsed to sit through the whole video and skipped about, but I found very little facts and a lot of rubbish.
If interested in learning about actual facts regarding the Maya civilization, look at the references I'll leave at the end of this post. Forget "google," when it comes to ancient civilizations books and journals written by scholars who cite their sources of data is the way to go.
barehandkiller said:
It would seem that your opinion is uninformed or, perhaps, misinformed. What, precisely, did the people of antiquity know that they shouldn't have?
About the references
Barbara Tedlock's book is useful in understanding how the Maya calendar functions in K'iche' life and society. Coe is an undisputed necessity for anyone who wants as complete an introduction possible in the Maya civilization. His book, The Maya, is widely available and can be found in any good library and often in book stores like Borders and B&N for just $15-20. Its a trade paperback with detailed diagrams, illustrations and photos of sites, site plans, iconography, artifacts, murals, etc. The PDF file, Introduction to Maya Hieroglyphs, includes a section on the Maya calendar and long count system as well as a section on how to convert Long Count to Gregorian. It is, however, an invaluable and scholarly reference in Maya Hieroglyphs.
References:
Bricker, Victoria (1982). "The Origin of the Maya Solar Calendar". Current Anthropology 23 (1): 101-103.
Coe, Michael D. (1992). Breaking the Maya Code. London: Thames and Hudson.
Coe, Michael D. (1999). The Maya, 6th edition. London: Thames and Hudson.
Kettunen, Harri and Christophe Helmke (2005). Introduction to Maya Hieroglyphs: 10th European Maya Conference Workshop Handbook, Leiden: Wayeb and Leiden University. PDF Version found (8/6/06) at: http://www.mesoweb.com/resources/handbook/WH2005.pdf
Maya World Studies Center (2001). The Maya Calendar.
Tedlock, Barbara (1982). Time and the Highland Maya. Albuquerque, NM:University of New Mexico Press
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barehandkiller
Registered Senior Member
Im not sure if its the correct way to do it grammaticaly but i was adding the n to Maya kinda like if i wanted to talk about a thing a person in Eqypt made; I would then say something like "The Egyption artifact bla bla bla". It doesnt sound right to me in my head to say Maya Calendar for some reason. And so to me its the Mayan Calendar.
Peace
Peace
And so, what, precisely, did the people of antiquity know that they shouldn't have?
barehandkiller
Registered Senior Member
Just off the top of my head i would say the number of planets in our solar system(some of which cant be seen), the way in which our solar system moves though the presession of the equinoxes. You might say they watched the stars but how could they know the cycles of time related to solar system movement which are huge. I dont think the Maya have been around long enough to observe a full cycle.
There's no evidence that the Maya were aware of more than 5 planets (which is what can be seen with the naked eye) and certainly no evidence that they understood what a planet was. They were particularly enamored with Venus.
What evidence would you suggest indicates that the Maya knew about precession?
The only thing I see evidence of is the credulous nature of significance-junkies who are find undo significance in the fact that the Maya calendar stops at 2012. I wonder if some significance-junkies of 2050 will find it equally significant that Windows XP's calendar ends at 2099?
What evidence would you suggest indicates that the Maya knew about precession?
The only thing I see evidence of is the credulous nature of significance-junkies who are find undo significance in the fact that the Maya calendar stops at 2012. I wonder if some significance-junkies of 2050 will find it equally significant that Windows XP's calendar ends at 2099?
barehandkiller
Registered Senior Member
The mathmatics suggest they knew about presession. They knew exactly how long it took for our solar system to go through a cycle of the presession.
What mathematics? Could you show us?
barehandkiller
Registered Senior Member
Uggh, i am feeling uninspired atm, but i will give it a go.
edit* It is beyond my skill in mathmatics and level of energy atm to explain that.
Here is a site with info about some of their universe mathmatics, which i have read similarly on many other sites. All suggesting to me their knowledge of presession.
http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/converg.html
More things which suggest to me ET teachings is that several civilasations have information or structures which point towards the same places in the sky(The Great Pyramid's south and north shafts in the Kings Chamber are pointed to Al Nitak (Zeta Orionis) and Alpha Draconis respectively, while the south and north shafts of the Queens Chamber point to Sirius and Orion; And Mayan Pyramid of the Sun points to Orion as well) If you research Sumarian info and Vedic i think yo9u will find similar.
http://www.philipcoppens.com/orionimage.html
^ info on Mayan pyramid
http://www.sacredsites.com/africa/egypt/great_pyramid.html
^info on Egyptian pyramid
Peace
edit* It is beyond my skill in mathmatics and level of energy atm to explain that.
Here is a site with info about some of their universe mathmatics, which i have read similarly on many other sites. All suggesting to me their knowledge of presession.
http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/converg.html
More things which suggest to me ET teachings is that several civilasations have information or structures which point towards the same places in the sky(The Great Pyramid's south and north shafts in the Kings Chamber are pointed to Al Nitak (Zeta Orionis) and Alpha Draconis respectively, while the south and north shafts of the Queens Chamber point to Sirius and Orion; And Mayan Pyramid of the Sun points to Orion as well) If you research Sumarian info and Vedic i think yo9u will find similar.
http://www.philipcoppens.com/orionimage.html
^ info on Mayan pyramid
http://www.sacredsites.com/africa/egypt/great_pyramid.html
^info on Egyptian pyramid
Peace
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Not only are your links pure bunk, but you appear to have not even read them! The second link is *not* to a Maya (not "Mayan") pyramid at all. The first link is pure poppycock propagated by a few significance junkies that can't even do math much less properly interpret archaeological data.
The Maya calendar has been used along with epigraphical sources to determine the date at which they believe the world began: 3114 BCE. The calendar itself cycles in 5200 years (2012). The world doesn't "end," the calendar just starts over again.
The dummy in the link you gave suggests that the current cycle is part of 5 other "great cycles." He then suggests that the math (5200 x 5=2600) is significant because this is the cycle of the precession of the equinoxes. It isn't. Precession takes 25,700 years. One can argue that this is "close," but significance-junkies and mystery-mongers can't have it both ways. Either the Maya were uncanny in their calculations or they weren't. 25,700 from 26,000 is 300 years and about 12 generations!
The second link seems to claim that both the Giza and Teotihuacan pyramids were identically aligned to match Orion's belt. If they were, whoop-dee frickin' do. But the two complexes have entirely different layouts. Kafre's and Khufu's pyramids are aligned across diagonal axes; Menkare's pyramid is parallel but not in line with the other two. The pyramids simply do not line up the way the three stars of Orion's belt do. Moreover, 3 stars hardly make a constellation.
The Teotihuacan complex that you refer to as a "Mayan pyramid" in a doubly erroneous manner (it is Teotihuacan, not Maya) is of a completely different alignment. Of the three major components of this complex, the Temple of the Moon is positioned at the very end of the Street of the Dead. The street itself is aligned with Fat Mountain, for which the pyramids were representations of. The Pyramids of the Moon and Sun axially aligned, though they were, of course parallel. Nor does the Quetzacoatl complex align with either in any meaningful way.
To summarize: your assertions, which aren't yours at all but those of other mystery-mongers and significance-junkies, are poppycock. There is no evidence that the Maya or any other ancient civilization had any knowledge that is out of place or impossible for them to have. There is no evidence of space aliens visiting to drop off any knowledge There is no evidence of a super-civilization that had space-age technology in the Neolithic. There is no evidence that people of the Pre-Pottery Neolithic had any technology that exceeded some really cool stone tools. They were "pre-pottery." They didn't even have a pot to piss in.
The Maya calendar has been used along with epigraphical sources to determine the date at which they believe the world began: 3114 BCE. The calendar itself cycles in 5200 years (2012). The world doesn't "end," the calendar just starts over again.
The dummy in the link you gave suggests that the current cycle is part of 5 other "great cycles." He then suggests that the math (5200 x 5=2600) is significant because this is the cycle of the precession of the equinoxes. It isn't. Precession takes 25,700 years. One can argue that this is "close," but significance-junkies and mystery-mongers can't have it both ways. Either the Maya were uncanny in their calculations or they weren't. 25,700 from 26,000 is 300 years and about 12 generations!
The second link seems to claim that both the Giza and Teotihuacan pyramids were identically aligned to match Orion's belt. If they were, whoop-dee frickin' do. But the two complexes have entirely different layouts. Kafre's and Khufu's pyramids are aligned across diagonal axes; Menkare's pyramid is parallel but not in line with the other two. The pyramids simply do not line up the way the three stars of Orion's belt do. Moreover, 3 stars hardly make a constellation.
The Teotihuacan complex that you refer to as a "Mayan pyramid" in a doubly erroneous manner (it is Teotihuacan, not Maya) is of a completely different alignment. Of the three major components of this complex, the Temple of the Moon is positioned at the very end of the Street of the Dead. The street itself is aligned with Fat Mountain, for which the pyramids were representations of. The Pyramids of the Moon and Sun axially aligned, though they were, of course parallel. Nor does the Quetzacoatl complex align with either in any meaningful way.
To summarize: your assertions, which aren't yours at all but those of other mystery-mongers and significance-junkies, are poppycock. There is no evidence that the Maya or any other ancient civilization had any knowledge that is out of place or impossible for them to have. There is no evidence of space aliens visiting to drop off any knowledge There is no evidence of a super-civilization that had space-age technology in the Neolithic. There is no evidence that people of the Pre-Pottery Neolithic had any technology that exceeded some really cool stone tools. They were "pre-pottery." They didn't even have a pot to piss in.
As mentioned on previous posts, any alignment that man made structures had placed would of had some significance either due to their natural function (religious celebration at a set time of year etc) or for the function of acting as a navigational marker on an otherwise barren landscape. I've suggested either their alignment was made to navigate from, or to navigate too.
barehandkiller
Registered Senior Member
I did briefly skip the sites, perhaps not as well as i should've, but im not concerned. From what i have read overall ...what i have said fits best(For me). So go read up and decide what fits best for you and enjoy.
Peace
Peace
To those that read this thread coming from a google search:
This has been a good exercise in several logical fallacies, the most significant being the argument from personal incredulity. The original poster would appear to find the significance of the exaggerated antiquity of man to be romantically engaging, and rightly so. Such notions are fun speculations as are notions of ancient civilizations with advanced technology. But they play best in the pages and celluloid of books and film.
But his last post is the most revealing: "im not concerned. From what i have read overall ...what i have said fits best(For me). So go read up and decide what fits best for you and enjoy."
He's already decided what he wishes to believe and looks only for that data which fit his beliefs -even if it is completely made-up.
If you want to truly learn about the Maya and other ancient civilizations, crack a book. Not just any book, but one written by legitimate scholars. There are many which are written for the lay person in mind, and Coe's The Maya is a wonderful place to start.
This has been a good exercise in several logical fallacies, the most significant being the argument from personal incredulity. The original poster would appear to find the significance of the exaggerated antiquity of man to be romantically engaging, and rightly so. Such notions are fun speculations as are notions of ancient civilizations with advanced technology. But they play best in the pages and celluloid of books and film.
But his last post is the most revealing: "im not concerned. From what i have read overall ...what i have said fits best(For me). So go read up and decide what fits best for you and enjoy."
He's already decided what he wishes to believe and looks only for that data which fit his beliefs -even if it is completely made-up.
If you want to truly learn about the Maya and other ancient civilizations, crack a book. Not just any book, but one written by legitimate scholars. There are many which are written for the lay person in mind, and Coe's The Maya is a wonderful place to start.
barehandkiller
Registered Senior Member
I have read very interesting articles about the supposed Real purpose behind the Egypt pyramid. Which basicly was a gigantic meditation amplifier. Or initiation chamber to altered states of consciousness(OBE i think). And that the small holes which angled up and out of the pyramid were a guide for the Initiate to follow to go to specific place(Orion, etc). There is a small tub like structure in a room of the pyramid which is thought to have acted as a floatation isolation chamber to aid the Initiate. The people who built the pyramid and wrote the book of the dead or whatever were less focused on death(as alot of eqypt scholars would say is there main focus) and more focused on OBE like travels(out of body experiences). This in my opinion makes more sense to me. And again it returns my thoughts to ET, if they were leaving there bodies into the astral realms or whatever and traveling out of the pyramid on the paths specified by the holes in the structure, why the specific stars Orion and Sirius and what have you? Because there was intelligent life there IMO!
Peace
Peace
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barehandkiller
Registered Senior Member
SkinWalker said:
In my experince these "Legitimate scholars" are the ones afraid to risk there "legitimacy" to jump outside the box where the truth might lie. So they stick with mainstream stuff(not to say mainstream is always wrong, but imo sometimes it is)
As for deciding what i wish to believe i approach any subject which is unknown or new to me with an open mind. I do not pay attention to whether a author or scholar on the topic is supposedly "legitimate" or "peer reviewed" or anything of that nature, i look at the information(the important thing) and how truthfull it feels.
barehandkiller
Registered Senior Member
Everyone has their own "Truth". Its not the same for anyone. It is hard to know the most "Truth" about a topic alot of times without various knowledge in many other topics. And so my "Truth" is an evolving thing, i do not have some concrete encased belief structure. It is fluid and absorbs everything nearly, out of this swirling mixture of everything i know a "big picture" is sometimes apparent on the surface. And this big picture is ever changing itself as limitless possibilities intermix with it. I believe one day i will know the absolute "Truth"(when i die? hopefully before...2012??...i hope). Until then i just accept that im working with flawed info and just do the best i can with the crap info out there which is available to me.
Peace
Peace
Your personal fantasies do not make truth for you anymore than they do the rest of us. What is real exists independently of what you believe to be real.
We examine things by looking at the evidence. Your assumptions about the Egyptians and the purpose of the pyramids are rife with more fallacious logic, particularly the argument of personal incredulity. If you don't understand what's truly known about ancient Egyptians, then your beliefs are right? Pure poppycock.
Crack a book. A real one.
You aren't far off in the functions of some of the design elements in pyramids, but you're assuming that the ancient Egyptians weren't credulous also. For all the wild beliefs that people of today have, they had, perhaps, many more. They believed in an afterlife and many types of souls. I'll be able to go into more detail on Egyptian funerary practices and beliefs in a later post, but suffice to say, that they believed the soul of the dead could take form and fly from the pyramid.
And 2012 is only 6 years away. I certainly hope you don't die before then.
We examine things by looking at the evidence. Your assumptions about the Egyptians and the purpose of the pyramids are rife with more fallacious logic, particularly the argument of personal incredulity. If you don't understand what's truly known about ancient Egyptians, then your beliefs are right? Pure poppycock.
Crack a book. A real one.
You aren't far off in the functions of some of the design elements in pyramids, but you're assuming that the ancient Egyptians weren't credulous also. For all the wild beliefs that people of today have, they had, perhaps, many more. They believed in an afterlife and many types of souls. I'll be able to go into more detail on Egyptian funerary practices and beliefs in a later post, but suffice to say, that they believed the soul of the dead could take form and fly from the pyramid.
And 2012 is only 6 years away. I certainly hope you don't die before then.
barehandkiller
Registered Senior Member
All that is "known" to be true could tommorow with some new discovery become rediculous or part true. So imo anyones view of what is true no matter how many people believe it to be The Truth is still only just there current view of Truth. I do agree with your assesment of there being a absolute truth existing outside our individual or collective views on truth. But i think alot in history has been changed(or just swept under a rug) to keep certain information from us, such as the use of the pyramid in Initiatory rites to free a persons Astral body from there flesh. Thus aiding in spiritual development.
I didnt mean to take away from there belief in the afterlife or the need for them to know how to advance or journey there but meant mostly to just put emphasis on how some or alot of there attention was imo on journeying Astrally while still alive.
Peace
I didnt mean to take away from there belief in the afterlife or the need for them to know how to advance or journey there but meant mostly to just put emphasis on how some or alot of there attention was imo on journeying Astrally while still alive.
Peace
barehandkiller
Registered Senior Member
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6056789081969524094&q=Tsarion
I very smart guy talking about ancient peoples.
I very smart guy talking about ancient peoples.