Originally posted by otheadp
Why do the peoples who have caused this and benefitted from this get to hijack the identity of the sufferer ?
so, according to this statement-question of yours, some jews (zionists) caused the holocaust and the endless prosecution prior to it to other jews (some zionists some not), and this conspiracy was a part of a larger conspiracy of creating the state of israel.
.......right?
Wrong . The great deportation , the Warsaw ghetto uprising , and the final solution , were factor in breaking of collaboration between zionists and nazi's .
As you know
every Jew then was doomed to die .
By involving zionists I do not exclude nazi's , the zionists were factor in it because they :
1) Incited hatred and segregation .
2) Supported anti-semites and collaborated with them .
3) Applauded the nuremberg laws and the star of david identification .
4) Collaborated with Judenrat , Ordnungsdienst and Kapos .
5) They did not help fellow Jews who were weaker and not usefull for the struggle
during the holocaust out of financial considerations .
6) They did not accept negotiations if Jewish immigration (during the holocaust) involved anything other than Israel .
All of this was done for the progression in creating the state of Israel . They propagated hate in name of Israel , they allied unholy in name of Israel , they applauded racism in name of Israel , and they were to greaty to save the people of Israel if they were not usefull .
One thing you should understand very well , because your sentence already implies a historical inaccuracy :
endless prosecution prior to it to other jews (some zionists some not),
In the Reich ,
untill 1942 , zionists were free in their activities and activities for their youth training camps (the Hebrew version of Hitler Jugend) , promoted by the SS and nazi fractions , hailed as "the decent Jews" , and offered extensive collaboration on for the migration of Jewry and the purpose to segregate Jewish peoples from the German society .
Zionists were
not persecuted in the Reich untill 1942 . Perhaps you cannot imagine this , but you better do so as
hardly any Jew supported zionism prior to the holocaust . Zionists were a select group of politicians and intellectuals with influence and a decent financial back up . It was
not a peoples movement .
Holocaust revisionists oftenly do the same as zionists and acknowledge a zionist identity of Judaism in historical perspective , from where they get their disgusting claims that Hitler did not opress the Jews and so he would never have killed them . He opressed them very much , who he did not opress were his zionist companions helping him solve the Jewish question .
If there would not have been a world war Israel would have been attempted to create by the nazi's and the zionists .
Avraham Stern even offered military collaboration in 1942 , this is the man Yitzhak Shamir adores ......... the military alliance of Hitler .
Please don't believe me , study documents , papers and zionist quotes regarding the mentioned subjects for yourself and you will see .
the rest of the jews (be it Ashkenazi or Spharadi / Mizrahi) in Israel or the Diaspora, they support it quite a bit.
Im sorry but why do I never see backing up of this ? I have shown you where your 15 million Jews are , now you show me how they are supporting you .
While not even all Jews
inside Israel support your state .
Look , Haredim papers :
http://www.hofesh.org.il/english/haredim_papers/yated.html
I think I do have a point when it is
religious peoples that complain about a
Jewish state . You want land that the God you do not believe in has given you .
1- jews brought this disaster upon themselves for the only reason of 'existing'
I do not agree obviously with this . Jews were victim , zionists hardly existed other than in their little intellectual and capitalist sect . They brought disaster (together with the nazi's) upon the Jewish people , of whom most never even heard of Theo or his buddies .
i'll go along with you for a second that Israel was created only because the holocaust (actually Israel was in the works long before that).
And how does pre-holocaust existance of the movement negate teh fact that without the prosecution and holocaust zionists
had hardly any followers ?
if that was the process, then this "benifit", as nice as it is, is greatly outweighed by the cost - 6000000 people dead in the most horrible ways imaginable. 50% of an entire people!
Zionists dont agree they say so .
Now you guess who the fella was that said this :
If I knew it was possible to save all the children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution. For we must take into account not only the lives of these children but also the history of the people of Israel.
a large part of those who were in israel during its creation were holocaust survivors.
Indeed . The holocaust gave zionism allofasudden a new face and some good manpower . But more importantly than everything , it gave them the identity of "the Jewish people" .
man, there is no "alternative identity" to the sufferer, as you keep saying. it is the same one.
Rak B'Dam Tihje Lanu Haarez , but as far as our immediate circle is concerned, Atem Tajlu . You know what that means don't you ?
Study for yourself and you will see .
