To torture or not to torture ?

[leopold]

There are truth serums they can use that would yield very good results without harming anyone and without anyone knowing they are being drugged for the most part. If we can save lives by administering these types of drugs then so be it, but never really hurt those that are in captivity if at all possible.

the only "truth serum" i'm familiar with is sodium pentathol, its effects are far from mild and results aren't guaranteed.

this from wiki:
Sodium thiopental, better known as Sodium Pentothal (a trademark of Abbott Laboratories), thiopental, thiopentone sodium, or trapanal, is a rapid-onset short-acting barbiturate general anaesthetic. It is an intravenous ultra-short-acting barbiturate. Sodium thiopental is a depressant and is sometimes used during interrogations—not to cause pain (in fact, it may have just the opposite effect), but to weaken the resolve of the subject and make him or her more compliant to pressure.
Thiopental is still used in some places as a truth serum.[8] The barbiturates as a class decrease higher cortical brain functioning. Some psychiatrists hypothesize that because lying is more complex than telling the truth, suppression of the higher cortical functions may lead to the uncovering of the "truth". However, the reliability of confessions made under thiopental is dubious; the drug tends to make subjects chatty and cooperative with interrogators, but a practiced liar or someone who has a false story firmly established would still be quite able to lie while under the influence of the drug.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_thiopental

 

[scott3x]

so says the guy that argues in favor of pedophilia.

Pedo or the original, Paedo, means base, foot or child.

philia means love.

Am I in favour of loving children? Sure.

The problem is that we took too fairly simple words, combined them, and created a multi headed term. So when asked what I think of this multi headed term, I simply must say; which head are you referring to?

From wikipedia's entry on Pedophilia:
The term pedophilia or paedophilia has a range of definitions as found in psychology, law enforcement, and the vernacular...

yes, and every single one of them relates to adult sex with minors or the unnatural desire for sex with children.

Children is a fairly broad term. Putting aside the fact that -everyone- is someone's child, the legal definition of child is generally 1 day old to someone who's just shy of their 18th birthday. In other word, the multi headed beast that is the term 'pedophilia' not only has multiple definitions, but the definitions -of- its definitions have multiple definitions as well. And saying that it's 'unnatural' for 'adults' (18+) to be attracted to 'children' (just below 18 and down) is not always the case by any stretch of the imagination.

If you want to attempt to get somewhere in this conversation, check out the definitions, find the one you want to ask me about and ask me what I think of that specific definition.

no, i have no wish to discuss pedophilia with you scott.

Then why bring the subject up to begin with? In any case, you've actually done exactly what was required in order to get somewhere in this conversation. If you'd like to stop now, by all means, do.

 

[leopold]

Children is a fairly broad term. Putting aside the fact that -everyone- is someone's child, the legal definition of child is generally 1 day old to someone who's just shy of their 18th birthday. In other word, the multi headed beast that is the term 'pedophilia' not only has multiple definitions, but the definitions -of- its definitions have multiple definitions as well. And saying that it's 'unnatural' for 'adults' (18+) to be attracted to 'children' (just below 18 and down) is not always the case by any stretch of the imagination.

like i've told you 50 million fucking times scott you do not interpret the law in this area.
a child in the eyes of the law is anyone under the AOC.

Then why bring the subject up to begin with?

to point out your hypocrisy scott by invoking the name of god to support your arguments in this thread while in others advocating pedophilia.
your refusal to accept the fact you do not interpret the law in this area shows you to be a dishonest one at that, but that shouldn't be a surprise should it?

 

[scott3x]

like i've told you 50 million fucking times scott...

I see you've joined that other guy who was keen to insult me. Carry on, if you wish, but do so without me.

 

[leopold]

I see you've joined that other guy who was keen to insult me.

how dare you.
you have a lot of nerve to scream "i've been insulted" at the same time you advocate diddling children.
don't get me started scott, every mod here knows what a bastard i can be.

 

[scott3x]

how dare you.
you have a lot of nerve to scream "i've been insulted" at the same time you advocate diddling children.
don't get me started scott, every mod here knows what a bastard i can be.

I think you're painting my views with a brush that's far too broad; I'll give you one very important clue as to where you're off- children aren't all the same age and laws are different in different jurisdictions. Anyway, I have no interest in 'getting you started', so I'll leave it at that.

 

[cosmictraveler]

You've been reading too many fiction novels or seeing too many silly movies.

Baron Max

[edit] Russian secret services
A defector from the biological weapons department 12 of the KGB "illegals" (S) directorate (part of Russian SVR service) claimed that a truth drug codenamed SP-17 is highly effective and has been widely used. "The 'remedy which loosens the tongue' has no taste, no smell, no color, and no immediate side effects. And, most important, a person has no recollection of having the 'heart-to-heart talk'" (the subject feels afterwards as if they had suddenly fallen asleep). Officers of the S directorate used the drug primarily to determine the trustworthiness of their own illegal agents who operated overseas.[3] The assassinated ex-FSB officer Alexander Litvinenko suggested that Russian presidential candidate Ivan Rybkin was drugged with the same substance (identified as SP-117) by FSB agents during the 2004 Russian presidential election (he dropped out of the presidential race due to the alleged kidnapping and drugging by FSB agents).[2]


[edit] CIA
There are several documented CIA operations such as Edgewood Arsenal experiments and Projects MKNAOMI, MKULTRA, MKDELTA, BLUEBIRD, ARTICHOKE and CHATTER.


[edit] CBI
Allegedly India's Central Bureau of Investigation use this drug regularly for interrogation, but it was not proven until plans were announced for its use on the terrorist captured during the November 2008 Mumbai Attacks[5]
So-called truth drugs have included ethanol, scopolamine, temazepam, and various barbiturates including the anesthetic induction agent sodium thiopental (commonly known as sodium pentothal): all are sedatives that interfere particularly with judgment and higher cognitive function.


A book by the former Soviet KGB officer Yuri Shvets based in Washington details the use of near-pure ethanol to verify that a Soviet agent was not compromised by U.S. counterintelligence services.[4] Cisatracurium, invented by JJ Savarese, has been used by Japanese torture squads as a truth drug.[

 

[Baron Max]

[edit] Russian secret services
A defector from ....[2]


[edit] CIA
There are several documented CIA operations such as Edgewood Arsenal experiments and Projects MKNAOMI, MKULTRA, MKDELTA, BLUEBIRD, ARTICHOKE and CHATTER.


[edit] CBI
Allegedly India's Central Bureau of Investigation use this drug ....


A book by the former Soviet KGB officer Yuri Shvets ....

Cosmic, tell me, please ...if those "truth serums" actually and truly worked, why would anyone do anything except inject the drug into suspects instead of wasting all that time interrogating them?

Makes no sense, does it? No, there is not such thing as a "truth serum".

Baron Max

 

[leopold]

[edit] CIA
There are several documented CIA operations such as Edgewood Arsenal experiments and Projects MKNAOMI, MKULTRA, MKDELTA, BLUEBIRD, ARTICHOKE and CHATTER.

edgewood arsenal was a double blind drug experiment with military volunteers.
i don't know what drugs were tested there but i do remember one doctor stating on the record as saying "we didn't know what we were injecting those people with, could have been cat piss as far as we knew."

they gave those volunteers doses that was known to cause death.

only the CIA knows for sure what drugs were used at edgewood.

baron brings up a valid point, why use torture at all if a true "truth serum" existed?

 

[cosmictraveler]

baron brings up a valid point, why use torture at all if a true "truth serum" existed?

Gives the MEDIA something to complain about while actually giving the "truth serum" to unsuspecting inmates.

 

[jessiej920]

Cosmic, tell me, please ...if those "truth serums" actually and truly worked, why would anyone do anything except inject the drug into suspects instead of wasting all that time interrogating them?

Makes no sense, does it? No, there is not such thing as a "truth serum".

Baron Max

Oh look. Hell just froze over. We agree on something

Many people who are in the position to be subjected to 'truth serums' are taught to build up a tolerance to it that way when they are injected, they might get high, but they won't be forced to tell the truth.

They've tried it with serial killers and even they've been able to build up tolerances to it.

Truth serums might work on some, but probably not for the ppl you want it them too.

 

[swarm]

every mod here knows what a bastard i can be.

You should fix that.

 

[leopold]

You should fix that.

have any miracle cures for deleting the past?

 

[scott3x]

every mod here knows what a bastard i can be.

You should fix that.

have any miracle cures for deleting the past?

I think swarm was referring to the present, not the past. On the bright side, as a general rule, I've found your insults to much tamer then those of some -others- here, who shall remain nameless

 

[swarm]

have any miracle cures for deleting the past?

A stellar present.