To The Faithful Of The World: I Have But One Simple Question No One Can Seem ToAnswer

[HeartlessCapitalist]

Must be why it's one of my favorite books from the Bible.

Huh. I tend to find it rather bleak, myself (not what I look for in mythology) but to each his own I suppose.

this "theology" makes it a totally immoral religion.

Morality doesn't exist independently of subjective opinion, so that's pretty much a non-statement. According to your standards, it might be unethical; according to a Christian believer's, it's the only ethical way of faith. Neither of you can claim that your belief is the more intrinsically right or wrong.

actually this is the aspect of the theology that makes it so attractive to the most corrupt and those who want to wallow in it while using the mask of religion. this is because of the belief that all are evil (translation: evil as them). they excuse themselves with this value system and use forgiveness as a cop-out. they want to bring others down or stop them from trying using the ruse that all are evil. that's deceptive because these types of people will target what they see that is not evil or sincere in others where they are not and try to corrupt, thereby claiming that all are evil.

I personally don't think you can make that simple a division and general statement about "Grace"-believing Protestants. In my experience, at least, many of them aren't self-serving but do quite genuinely believe in their system. Of course, many others are hypocrites, but then that's true of all teachings that have any kind of ethical content -- Protestant or Catholic, Christian or pagan, theist or atheist. Some will be serious about adhering to it, some won't give a damn, and most will usually be lukewarm.

it's to falsely equalize and make seem no effort makes a difference or is of any importance which is totally self-serving for their delusions of grandeur. the journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. those who ahere to this christian type of theology expect it handed to them, so scorn any efforts as well as insinuate equality to the sincere or those working to really make a difference. i know 'exactly' the type of person who has this type of value system which is my step-father. he believes just like this, it's a sense of entitlement. one can't be "made" righteous as if by magic. those who are sincerely trying and care means something than one who doesn't because even their 'human' efforts will make a difference, even if it's not spectacular to this so-called god.

That's a personal statement of belief that I won't argue either for or against as such. I do contend that as the ideas are outlined in the Bible, the "Grace, Not Works" schools of theology are closer to the "truth" than any who argue otherwise. Then again, some go too far the other way; they suppose every good act by any human ever is the Indwelling Spirit at work (which the Bible also doesn't support).

my earlier reply is because i know that you are a christian. you are doing a good job of presenting your argument in a way that rather off-handish so it's not obvious though considering this forum.

Why'd you think I am? You don't have to believe in the whole mythology to find it interesting and worthy of study. And Koine Greek is a way easier course than any physics past the introductory level.

yes, we know that about christianity but the discrepancy here is that there are people who do help their fellow man and are not christian. that is what the op is referring to.

one does not need to be religious or a theist to do good or be motivated to do good.

Oh? I thought he was criticizing the Christian (and more specifically, Pauline) theology of God's selection criteria for Heaven and Hell, respectively.

Whether non-Christians can act morally is not a matter Christian theologians are unanimously agreed on. (Then again, what is?) According to the Bible's teaching, as far as I'm familiar with it, the answer would appear to be yes (see eg Romans 2); God has apparently endowed everyone with a conscience to do good, or at least be aware of their own "Total Depravity". It's just that for salvation purposes, their evil cancels out the good ... which is why Christ is needed to redeem them.

 

[jmpet]

his question is actually valid, it's just not in the right subforum. it should be in the religion subforum. the op has nothing to do with comparative religion. the op is actually asking about the issue of morality within religion, not dogmatic theological doctrine. theology doesn't have to make sense. it is just a set of rules, even arbitrary ones which in the real world have little to no value. it's like discussing greek mythology. believe it or not, it takes virtually no brains or critical thinking ability to "understand" THEOLOGY, just a lot of memorization. there are whole commentaries and expositories dedicated to mental masturbation over theology which make absolutely no sense whatsoever. so i would get off that high horse of yours as if it does because it's embarassing because "THEOLOGY" is really nothing but make-believe and what someone deemed as "god's" rules. the op is asking WHY it doesn't make sense but it's THEOLOGY, doesn't have to because most of it is BULLSHIT. get it?

actually the replies discussing just the points of theology are really not answering the op. in reality, those posts are even more stupid. at least one could answer the question appropriately to the subject matter or just leave it alone.

what this means is your reply is foolish because you indicate that you want to reply to this thread, yet it has nothing to do with comparative religion.

since it doesn't, what's your beef? does it irritate you? can't find a thread on theology or make one yourself? lmao

So in a "Comparative Religion" sub-forum, I am not allowed to point out comparative religions? Good logic there, birch.

Tell ya what- listen to people's posts then tear them apart. It's much easier than formulating your own opinion.

 

[NMSquirrel]

(Going religiously philispohical in this post, I am not that "Empty ForceOf Chi" guy.)

not even close..
in the catagory of contempt chi wins..
he seems to believe in 'hate all things that don't line up with ones beliefs'
i do not have to hate drugs, to not have them in my life.

 

[gmilam]

Huh. I tend to find it rather bleak, myself (not what I look for in mythology) but to each his own I suppose.

Interesting. I find it uplifting.

A good name is worth more than gold. Find work that you enjoy to keep your hands busy, love your wife, enjoy your food and wine... What more can anyone ask for?

 

[HeartlessCapitalist]

Interesting. I find it uplifting.

A good name is worth more than gold. Find work that you enjoy to keep your hands busy, love your wife, enjoy your food and wine... What more can anyone ask for?

The absence of all the depressing stuff?

Human effort is useless, but outcomes are determined only by chance (9:11); the more you understand about the world, the sorrier you'll be (1:18); life is so painful it's better to be dead than alive, and best not to have been born at all (4:2-3), yet men desperately cling to this sad existence because it's all they'll ever have (9:4-5). It's about summed up in 2:17:

Therefore I hated life; because the work that is wrought [ie, everything that happens] under the sun is grievous unto me: for all is vanity and vexation of spirit.

IMHO there's probably no bleaker book in the Bible than Ecclesiastes. Although Lamentations, some of the psalms, and the "Curses" chapters of Deuteronomy come somewhat close, but even they aren't quite so pessimistic.

 

[chimpkin]

There's virtually no around here, though, saying that all is just a dream and not real.

I used to think I was being dreamed by someone...so to me the idea that we're all being dreamed by some sort of overdeity doesn't seem too off-the-wall.
It seems real, I'm inclined to respond as if I'm real and my existence is actual, but I will admit "I " might be a figment of something else's imagination. A simulation, a subconscious thing that ends when the deity's Feet hit the Floor.
Just because a figment can make things...doesn't prove I'm not a figment.

Will I obstreporously defend that point to be true? no. To be possible? Yes.

I've had weirder things in my breakfast protein shake.

 

[jmpet]

All men's lives are weighed on a scale regardless of your belief- no one rides for free. The question is irrelevant because there is no Hell- everyone goes to their personal Heaven- some progress further than others but they're all in their private little worlds.

There is something bigger than Heaven and that is where morality comes into play. If you want to be with the big boys, your soul must pay the price for your life. No one rides for free.