To monotheists: Put yourself in our shoes

greenberg said:
But could you please put yourself in John Smith's shoes?
From all sides, religions are threatening him with terrible things if he doesn't believe what they say.

How is he to choose -and soon-?
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Investigate the claims and embrace what He wills to embrace and reject what He wills to reject.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
greenberg said:
You yourself are a living example of being completely unable to put yourself in the shoes of those who are not sure about God.
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actually you never did really clarify what you were trying to get at with the whole placing in someone else's shoes business

how can you determine whether one is placing themselves in someone else's shoes properly?
 
greenberg said:
As far as I know, they don't think so. And they are willing to back this up with forceful arguments, and have done so in the past as well as in the future.

Last but not least, the Calvinists think that the Catholics worship the wrong God ... and so on.
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The whole question who among the Christians, jews , muslims and varying denominations believe in the God of Abraham is irrelevant.

The important question is who is promoting the Will of God and who is promoting a false view of the will of God.

If there is a God (and there is) and He has a will for mankind (and He does) then going around telling people lies about His will is a very serious thing indeed. That’s why there are such serious discussions between people who claim to promote the will of God but who promote differing views.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
S.A.M. said:
I think you actually need to read the scriptures before asking questions. :)

e.g. if you were to ask me, I would say, why worry about the road? Its the destination that is important. So whichever philosophy feels right to you, is right.

Not everyone can wear the same hat. But thats okay, there are several different kinds of hats.
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but the "truth" is only one. That fear that I might be on the wrong path...keeps me astray from understand life fully.
 
greenberg said:
You yourself are a living example of being completely unable to put yourself in the shoes of those who are not sure about God.
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Very wrong. I came to God by seeking. People like you have no idea because you talk like you think people are born Christians. Like when they come out of their mothers womb some invisible angel puts a believer stamp on their heads or something.

So try to put yourself in our shoes for once. And stop talking such emotional rubbish as you are putting forward now here.

Yeah seeking God is tough, so get on with it and stop moaning like a spoilt child. Do you think that the most important thing in life would be easy?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
If there is a God (and there is) and He has a will for mankind (and He does) then going around telling people lies about His will is a very serious thing indeed. That’s why there are such serious discussions between people who claim to promote the will of God but who promote differing views.
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And how is someone who does not know the will of God (like me and many other people) supposed to know

whether someone - like you, Photizo, Till Eulenspiegel, Catholics, Calvinists, etc. -
is promoting the Will of God and who is promoting a false view of the will of God?

I don't know the Will of God. How can I know whether you, Photizo, Till Eulenspiegel, Catholics, Calvinists, etc., actually do know the Will of God?

You all claim you do. You also tend to claim the other is wrong.
 
Adstar said:
Very wrong.
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What if someone came to you and said they believe in God?
What if someone went around "spreading the Gospel"?
What if someone would tell you that your belief in God is the wrong one and that theirs is the right one?

Would you believe them?
 
greenberg said:
What if someone came to you and said they believe in God?
What if someone went around "spreading the Gospel"?
What if someone would tell you that your belief in God is the wrong one and that theirs is the right one?

Would you believe them?
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what if someone came to you and said "this is water"?
What if someone went around educating other people about certain ways water can be used?
What if someone would tell you that what you are using as water is wrong and that what they are using is right?

IOW god, like water, has objective qualities (like all "things" have objective qualities - if a person is not familiar with these qualities, there is no end to doubt and uncertainty)
 
greenberg said:
And how is someone who does not know the will of God (like me and many other people) supposed to know

whether someone - like you, Photizo, Till Eulenspiegel, Catholics, Calvinists, etc. -
is promoting the Will of God and who is promoting a false view of the will of God?

I don't know the Will of God. How can I know whether you, Photizo, Till Eulenspiegel, Catholics, Calvinists, etc., actually do know the Will of God?

You all claim you do. You also tend to claim the other is wrong.
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Listen, investigate and make your decision. It is up to you. You decide who is telling the truth and who is lying. Or are you looking for someone to make your mind up for you?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
greenberg said:
What if someone came to you and said they believe in God?
What if someone went around "spreading the Gospel"?
What if someone would tell you that your belief in God is the wrong one and that theirs is the right one?

Would you believe them?
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I would sit down with them and go through the Gospel message to see where we differ and share thoughts with that person.

I would pray to my Father in heaven to confirm the truth in the minds of us both and to bring wisdom to overcome any lies that exist in our minds.

I trust in God.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
lightgigantic said:
what if someone came to you and said "this is water"?
What if someone went around educating other people about certain ways water can be used?
What if someone would tell you that what you are using as water is wrong and that what they are using is right?

IOW god, like water, has objective qualities (like all "things" have objective qualities - if a person is not familiar with these qualities, there is no end to doubt and uncertainty)
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Water I have first-hand knowledge of.
God - I do not. All I have ever heard about God was told to me by people.
 
Adstar said:
Listen, investigate and make your decision. It is up to you. You decide who is telling the truth and who is lying. Or are you looking for someone to make your mind up for you?
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Can't you see? I have no first-hand knowledge of God. All I have ever heard in relation to God, I have heard from people, never from God himself.
With this in mind, however I would decide about God, I would compromise my integrity.

You theists are putting an immoral decision before me.
 
greenberg said:
Are you saying that God is to be taken to be of the same kind of phenomenon as water?
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in the sense that water is something that we can define by qualities (water is wet) and understand its effect or relationship to ourself (if we drink it, we get relief from thirst), and its not an issue that is affected by time,place or circumstances (these qualities are not affected by place of birth, technological advancement, history etc)
 
lightgigantic said:
in the sense that water is something that we can define by qualities (water is wet) and understand its effect or relationship to ourself (if we drink it, we get relief from thirst), and its not an issue that is affected by time,place or circumstances (these qualities are not affected by place of birth, technological advancement, history etc)
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This is all fine intheory. What about in practice?
 
greenberg said:
Let's take the average John Smith. He wasn't brought up with any religion in particular.

One day, he starts to wonder whether there is a God or not. He asks the people he knows, he goes to the library, reads some books. They tell him to look further, so he does.

He ends up with the various religions telling him this:


The Christians tell him: There is only one true God! It is the one that our holy scriptures speak of!

The Jews tell him: There is only one true God! It is the one that our holy scriptures speak of!

The Muslims tell him: There is only one true God! It is the one that our holy scriptures speak of!

The Hare Krishnas tell him: There is only one true God! It is the one that our holy scriptures speak of!


So what is John Smith to do? Whom to believe? They all say the same thing. They all insist that their religion is the only right one.
He is troubled and confused by this.



Could you monotheists please put yourselves in other people's shoes for a moment?

Could you at least try to imagine what it is like for people who do not yet have any firm religious convictions - what it is like for them to face the claims that you as "believers in God" all present them with?
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Okay let's make a slight change. John Smith starts to wonder what sex would be like. Why? Because there is a rumbeling in his pants every time he sees females with certain attributes. BANG!!! It's already began. Do you get my point.

Whether you want to admit it or not, God is innate within everyone, just as everyone knows they have a father, even if they have never met him.
If God wasn't inate, he wouldn't be God.

Jan.
 
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