Time Travel is Science Fiction

[Landau Roof]

What do you think might happen if you had two connected points in space-time that were of different ages (IE separated both in space and time).

How should I know? My understanding is that black holes may not even exist, then even if they did they would simply crush. kill and destroy anything within their grasp. Isn't it also theoretical that 'white holes' are the exit doors of the black? What do you think? Please do tell.

I want to point out that as far as I know, we have never defined in this discussion if we are talking about H.G. Wells' Time Machine-type time travel where the traveler sits in a (stationary???) vehicle in which he can move "back and forth" through time, or are we talking about your wormhole type of time-travel in which the science fiction character who is doing it would have to travel light years even to find a black hole to plunge into. We really need to clarify and decide that.

 

[krash661]

You have yet to offer an explanation. Please do so at your earliest possible convenience.

yeah, i should have known you would not understand.
there's a reason why i stated this comment,
" your misunderstanding about the concept and ramifications of time. "
the event occurs at the same time.
in california, it may be three pm.
in china it will be 3-4 am next day.

 

[krash661]

I don't get it.

and the pattern continues.

 

[krash661]

about your wormhole type of time-travel in which the science fiction character who is doing it would have to travel light years even to find a black hole to plunge into.

no.
what is actually occurring is devolving what has been referred to as a " stargate"[einstien - rosen bridge portal]

 

[Landau Roof]

yeah, i should have known you would not understand.
there's a reason why i stated this comment,
" your misunderstanding about the concept and ramifications of time. "
the event occurs at the same time.
in california, it may be three pm.
in china it will be six am next day.

As usual you offer insults and imply that you are of unrecognized genius , but you do not explain your views. I have asked you politely two times now to state your case. This is the third: please explain what you are talking about. Six a.m. in China is 3 p.m. in California, but there is no earlier and later. For instance right now as I write this it is exactly 12:15 p.m. (Nov.21) in the Beijing timezone, and simultaneously (that means 'at the same time') 8:15 p.m (Nov 20) in L.A. It is not California's future in Beijing. Both places are in the 'now' and they call it a different time of day or night because of the position of the sun relative to their respective regions. Explain to me where my mistake lies.

P.S. If you come back with nothing but supposedly superior sarcasm, I will report you again, and hopefully you will be temporarily banned as you were two days ago.

 

[Landau Roof]

no.
what is actually occurring is devolving what has been referred to as a " stargate"[einstien - rosen bridge portal]

All right, you have replied as I wrote that (notice that though we are likely in different timezones we both acted in the same present). However, your explanation tells me nothing You are throwing around terms without explaining them We are ostensibly having a discussion. Discussion requires one to explain their terms as well as their views. You haven't been doing that.

I've quickly looked up E-R portal. Are you seriously suggesting there is a wormhole between widely distant timezones on this world? That you call this theoretic phenomena by a popular sci-fi shows name is telling. Also, the second Bing reference I got for it was from Marvel Cinematic Universe Wiki!

 

[paddoboy]

How should I know? My understanding is that black holes may not even exist, then even if they did they would simply crush. kill and destroy anything within their grasp. Isn't it also theoretical that 'white holes' are the exit doors of the black? What do you think? Please do tell.

I'll accept that possibility, if someone can give me a better explantion/theory/model, to explain the observations we do see around these objects you say may not exist......
At your own conveniance of course.
Worm holes of course, like time travel is not forbidden by the laws of physics and GR.

I want to point out that as far as I know, we have never defined in this discussion if we are talking about H.G. Wells' Time Machine-type time travel where the traveler sits in a (stationary???) vehicle in which he can move "back and forth" through time, or are we talking about your wormhole type of time-travel in which the science fiction character who is doing it would have to travel light years even to find a black hole to plunge into. We really need to clarify and decide that.

That's not the point...actually there are three facts any viewer of this thread should note......
[1] The title of this thread is in complete error, and was picked simply to add weight to pseudoscience physics that Farsight dabbles in.
[2] Time travel, and wormholes are not forbidden by the laws of physics and/or GR
[3] Any sufficiently advanced civilisation [including our own] could possibly achieve such a dream.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

I've quickly looked up E-R portal. Are you seriously suggesting there is a wormhole between widely distant timezones on this world? That you call this theoretic phenomena by a popular sci-fi shows name is telling. Also, the second Bing reference I got for it was from Marvel Cinematic Universe Wiki!

Yes. There is a wormhole in my closet. I give people lottery numbers and they give me chocolate.

I love chocolate.

 

[paddoboy]

. It is not California's future in Beijing. Both places are in the 'now' and they call it a different time of day or night because of the position of the sun relative to their respective regions. Explain to me where my mistake lies.

No they are not both in the "now".......

Let's look at it from another more observable scenario.
[1]I am on a planet orbiting Alpha Centauri.....You on Earth.
We are conversing via radio......We decide to both synchronise our clocks.
I call out "MARK!!" 1200HRS......
Please explain to me with "c" being a universal speed limit, how you are able to clock 1200hrs when I do. You cannot.
[2] A different effect would be obvious through gravitational time dilation if one of us was near a BH's EH and the other a safe distance away.

Number [2] would comprehensively and without doubt result in time travel for the individual near the EH, if he could possibly escape and return.

An The Alcubierre drive is another method one could achieve time travel if one was technically advanced enough to construct such a device.

All sci/fi at this precise moment, but certainly not disallowed or forbidden according to the laws of physics and GR, by any one advanced enough to undertake such a project.

 

[paddoboy]

How should I know? My understanding is that black holes may not even exist, then even if they did they would simply crush. kill and destroy anything within their grasp.

Again your lack of physics has led to a wrong assumption.
Let's say the BH is a Kerr type...or a spinning BH.
Such a spinning BH [which should be quite common, also would have a "ring singularity.
Not the more familiar accepted Schwarzchild metric singularity.
One could thus enter this Kerr BH via the polar regions or axis of spin, and pass through the exact center where the forces of gravity would be equalised, and thus not suffer any harm.
Where would he emerge?
That's another good question....another Universe is what I predict.

 

[Trippy]

How should I know?

So then you're asserting that something is impossible without understanding the ways in which physics as we understand it predicts it might be?

My understanding is that black holes may not even exist, then even if they did they would simply crush. kill and destroy anything within their grasp. Isn't it also theoretical that 'white holes' are the exit doors of the black? What do you think? Please do tell.

I didn't say anything about blackholes and whiteholes, nor did I mention schwarzchild black-holes (we know the schwarzchhild metric is incomplete because we observe compact objects that are most consistent with rapidly rotating blackholes).

I want to point out that as far as I know, we have never defined in this discussion if we are talking about H.G. Wells' Time Machine-type time travel where the traveler sits in a (stationary???) vehicle in which he can move "back and forth" through time, or are we talking about your wormhole type of time-travel in which the science fiction character who is doing it would have to travel light years even to find a black hole to plunge into.

Yes we have, it's defined in the OP. According to the OP all time travel is science fiction because "You can't literaly tracel forwards in time. Or backwards. No way, no how."

Farsight was quite clear there, and has been quite clear subsquently that time travel is impossible, period.

We really need to clarify and decide that.

Already been done.

 

[Landau Roof]

So then you're asserting that something is impossible without understanding the ways in which physics as we understand it predicts it might be?

Don't be such a hard case, why don't you?. While I admit to not being well versed in physics and um, the ins and outs of time travel (or Santa or unicorns), I thought we were here to discuss possibilities, and share views. What you are doing is deliberately asking a question no one can answer and then calling me ignorant because I cannot answer. However, I stand by my reply. Black holes, white holes, worm holes, time travel are all mere speculation. I know this is true, and you do too. You say, "physics as we understand it" - Hah! We are mere monkeys' uncles trying to understand what might not be understandable even if we did have complete information, and we do not have complete information. What's the point of making me look ignorant? All that we have been discussing is purely speculative, and I notice you haven't given your views at all. What is the point of setting me up for a fall? Does it make you feel superior? Go ahead, Your Worship, feel as superior as you like. I came here to discuss truth. Look it up. It's a grand notion, truth. You ought to try to find out more about it.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

You accuse people of being starry eyed day dreamers who hold Star Trek as a religion of all things. You came here with a biased wanting to assert an opinion, not to have a discussion. You're right, we don't fully understand things like black holes, but would you also say stuff like quasars don't exist? Physics doesn't set out to prove anything, as far as I'm concerned math is where proofs only exist. All physics does is try to explore and understand the universe better. So, don't try to play the victim suffering from some wrong doing, it makes you appear more hypocritical.

 

[Landau Roof]

You accuse people of being starry eyed day dreamers who hold Star Trek as a religion of all things. You came here with a biased wanting to assert an opinion, not to have a discussion. You're right, we don't fully understand things like black holes, but would you also say stuff like quasars don't exist? Physics doesn't set out to prove anything, as far as I'm concerned math is where proofs only exist. All physics does is try to explore and understand the universe better. So, don't try to play the victim suffering from some wrong doing, it makes you appear more hypocritical.

I don't feel hypocritical. My only opinion in reference to the discussion at hand is that there is much we don't know! However, traveling in this thing called 'time' is just nonsense, and even f we could do it (and we can't) we would be wrong to do so.

I think Farsight's got it right, and yes, I blame Star Trek and this faith in science that many of our friends have for accepting every 'neat' sci-fi idea as something that WILL come to pass, and make us happy and well, and oh so totally cool. I know. People thought we'd never fly or have telephones, but these achievements are of a whole nother order of things we can't possibly achieve, Travel back in time! Only think! The very phrase is nonsensical. All of us over age 12 have regrets, and wish we could turn back the clock, but it just ain't gonna happen What we should be discussing is how to make amends for all the asshat things we've all done, and do our best to improve. It's all about morals, I think. If we could only decide to be good, and somehow stick to it, we wouldn't need to go to Mars or the restaurant at the end of the universe or 'boldly go where no man has gone before'. We don't need to turn back the clock. What we need is the strength to be righteous and never falter. However, we're mere men and women, and we will weaken and screw up sooner or later. Dreaming of time travel changes nothing.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

So uh... You admit that you did not come here to discuss time travel, but morality?

 

[Landau Roof]

So uh... You admit that you did not come here to discuss time travel, but morality?

What's 'admit' mean? I'm saying that I agree with Farsight. Traveling in time, especially backward, is nonsense, and, if you please, I'm thinking the reason we fragile, weak-willed humans even think of such a thing is that we have regrets. I know I do, but let's not get into that here.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Yes well, Farsight, is like someone in Johannes Kepler's time saying that we'll never go to the moon; a politician wanting to get votes to feed his own ego. A person who would brand Dora the Explorer as a witch and burn her at the stake.

Is that what you admire?

 

[Landau Roof]

Yes well, Farsight, is like someone in Johannes Kepler's time saying that we'll never go to the moon; a politician wanting to get votes to feed his own ego. A person who would brand Dora the Explorer as a witch and burn her at the stake.

Is that what you admire?

When did we start talking about admiring anyone? I think Farsight happens to be correct. You can't step in the same river twice, as Disney Pocahontas sings to us. I am trying to think of an analogy as ridiculous as time travel (you can't shell a peanut that's already been shelled???) but I can't.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

And single celled organisms can't evolve either.

It's preposterous!

 

[Landau Roof]

And single celled organisms can't evolve either.

It's preposterous!

Can you say, "false analogy"?

What is it that you regret so much you need time travel to be real? Never mind, bad haircuts heal with...time.