Time Travel is Science Fiction

[Farsight]

No, it was "proven" by experts that birds represented the largest things that could ever fly. Anything larger was just science fiction.

Er, but people had been flying in balloons for a hundred years?

Put these three indisputable facts together:
One: There is a low limit of weight, certainly not much beyond 50 pounds, beyond which it is impossible for an animal to fly. Nature has reached this limit, and with her utmost effort has failed to pass it.
Two: The animal machine is far more effective than any we can hope to make.; therefore the limit of the weight of a successful flying machine can not be more than fifty pounds.
Three: The weight of any machine constructed for flying, including fuel and engineer, cannot be less than three or four hundred pounds.
Is it not demonstrated that a true flying machine, self-raising, self-sustaining, self-propelling, is physically impossible?

-Joseph Le Conte, Professor of Natural History at the University of California, Popular Science Monthly, November 1888.

You said all this. And I said that in 1888 the Montgolfiers had flown in a balloon over a hundred years previously. So what this guy said was obviously rubbish. He was a natural history professor, not an engineer. Any engineer even then would have told you that powered flight needed an adequate engine, and the three or four hundred pounds weight limit was popscience rubbish.

Not back in the 1850's. Both were widely understood to be impossible.

Where are you getting this stuff from? Popscience magazines? The Montgolfiers flew in a balloon in 1783.

And we have GPS satellites that are moving through time at a different rate than we are.

They aren't moving through time, and nor are we. Read the OP.

And a true flying machine, self-raising, self-sustaining, self-propelling, is physically impossible. At least until it wasn't.

Birds fly, and your argument is specious. Especially since you could use it to peddle perpetual motion and raising the dead or any other nonsense you like. Again, read the OP to understand why time travel is science fiction. And always will be.

 

[billvon]

You said all this. And I said that in 1888 the Montgolfiers had flown in a balloon over a hundred years previously. So what this guy said was obviously rubbish.

I agree! And similarly what you are saying is obviously rubbish. We have traveled through time at different rates. Right now those rates are tiny compared to the normal flow of time. That will increase as our velocities increase. So it is no longer a matter of "can we do it?" It is now a matter of degree.

He was a natural history professor, not an engineer. Any engineer even then would have told you that powered flight needed an adequate engine, and the three or four hundred pounds weight limit was popscience rubbish.

Are you a physicist? Because any physicist can tell you that your claim of impossibility is rubbish.

Birds fly, and your argument is specious. Especially since you could use it to peddle perpetual motion and raising the dead or any other nonsense you like. Again, read the OP to understand why time travel is science fiction. And always will be.

I did, and you are incorrect.

You are also incorrect about raising the dead. Thousands of people who have been clinically and legally dead have been brought back to life, sometimes after being dead for almost an hour. We will also get better at that as time goes on. Yes, someone 100 years ago would have called that impossible, or seen it as evidence of supernatural intervention. Now it is just cutting edge medical science.

 

[Trippy]

form california to manhattan, there's a three hour difference.
at this point i have traveled three hours into the future[new york's time].
from califorina to china is a twelve hour difference.
so from this point i have traveled 12+ hours into the future[china's time].
from china to califorina, i have traveled 12+ hours back to califorina's time [past].

china's future is califorina's past, simultaneously.

And I'm in you're future (unless you happen to be somewhere like Fiji).

 

[paddoboy]

Yes it is. I explained that in the OP. Time is a cumulative measure of motion. You can't move through a measure of motion.

No it is not forbidden. I think its about time you learnt about the laws of physics and GR, and take notice of reputable people like Kip Thorne, Carl Sagan, Sean Carroll and mainstream accepted opinion in general.
Time is simply that fundamental quantity that evolved along with space at the BB.

Ah, but you are clinging to a fantasy just like religious people cling to theirs.

Except that that is just blatantly wrong. Time travel is not forbidden...that is a categorically undeniable fact.
http://plus.maths.org/content/time-travel-allowed
Which sort of leaves you out on a limb.

 

[Farsight]

No it is not forbidden. I think its about time you learnt about the laws of physics and GR, and take notice of reputable people like Kip Thorne, Carl Sagan, Sean Carroll and mainstream accepted opinion in general.

Time travel isn't mainstream physics. Nor is Sean Carroll's evil twin universe. Here's Carl Sagan talking about time travel: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/Sagan-Time-Travel.html . I'm afraid it's thin gruel.

Except that that is just blatantly wrong. Time travel is not forbidden...that is a categorically undeniable fact.

It's forbidden because time is a cumulative measure of motion, and you can't travel through a measure of motion. Or spacetime. You can't travel around a closed timelike curve because there's no motion in spacetime. And I'm afraid http://plus.maths.org/content/time-travel-allowed is popscience junk for kids. Time dilation is not time travel. Methusula and Florence meet up at the same time. They can watch each other every step of the way while Florence travels through space or hovers above an event horizon.

Which sort of leaves you out on a limb.

No, you're out on a limb believing in patent nonsense. There's plenty of people who think like I do about this, and I can explain my position with logic and references and evidence and argument. But you can't counter any of it. You can't point out any flaws in the OP.

 

[krash661]

, and I can explain my position with logic and references and evidence and argument. But you can't counter any of it. You can't point out any flaws in the OP.

i can say the same.
you can not counter any of what has been submitted.
you have not shown any flaws,you have only shown your misunderstanding about the concept and ramifications of time.
nothing more.

 

[Farsight]

I agree! And similarly what you are saying is obviously rubbish. We have travelled through time at different rates.

Read the OP. We haven't travelled through time at all. This is just a figure of speech.

Right now those rates are tiny compared to the normal flow of time.

That's a figure of speech too. Can you see time flowing? No. You can see things changing or moving, that's all.

That will increase as our velocities increase. So it is no longer a matter of "can we do it?" It is now a matter of degree.

See above. Time dilation is not time travel.

Are you a physicist? Because any physicist can tell you that your claim of impossibility is rubbish.

I'm an IT guy who is considered to be an "amateur physicist". And when it comes to time, some professional physicists consider me to be the expert. Not Hawking. Me.

You are also incorrect about raising the dead...

You're clinging to a fantasy, billvon. Read the OP, and understand what clocks do.

 

[Landau Roof]

form california to manhattan, there's a three hour difference.
at this point i have traveled three hours into the future[new york's time].
from califorina to china is a twelve hour difference.
so from this point i have traveled 12+ hours into the future[china's time].
from china to califorina, i have traveled 12+ hours back to califorina's time [past].

china's future is califorina's past, simultaneously.

If what you were saying is true, you could go to China, get the latest baseball final game scores for California, email me, in L.A., and I could win us some money making safe bets on the games outcomes. Hey! Sounds like a plan.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

I'm an IT guy who is considered to be an "amateur physicist". And when it comes to time, some professional physicists consider me to be the expert. Not Hawking. Me.

I'm a princess.

Or, at least would like to be.

 

[krash661]

If what you were saying is true, you could go to China, get the latest baseball final game scores for California, email me, and I could win us some money making safe bets on the games outcomes. Hey! Sounds like a plan.

you also have only shown your misunderstanding about the concept and ramifications of time.
nothing more.

 

[Landau Roof]

you also have only shown your misunderstanding about the concept and ramifications of time.
nothing more.

So explain then please.

 

[Landau Roof]

I'm a princess.
Or, at least would like to be.

Have your father look in the classifieds for any openings for kings, and you're on your way.

 

[krash661]

And when it comes to time, some professional physicists consider me to be the expert.

except the ones who are actually working on time[the ones who are actually in the trenches], are not even mainstream scientist. let alone being known.
this kind of work is beyond the capability of mainstream.

nice attempt farsight.

 

[paddoboy]

Time travel isn't mainstream physics. Nor is Sean Carroll's evil twin universe. Here's Carl Sagan talking about time travel: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/Sagan-Time-Travel.html . I'm afraid it's thin gruel.

It's forbidden because time is a cumulative measure of motion, and you can't travel through a measure of motion. Or spacetime.

Time travel for us is Sci/Fi at this time. No one has ever said any different. It's just you and your efforts to support your stance on cosmology and the Imaginary TOE that you have claimed to have.
[Hmmm, hav'nt heard to much of that of late]
That claim actually reinforced the length of bullshit your posts tend to convey.

Now some facts.
Time travel is not forbidden by the laws of physics and GR.
Any sufficiently advanced civilisation could achieve it.

 

[paddoboy]

See above. Time dilation is not time travel.

Except it is.
eg: If I proceeded off in my space ship at 99.999% "c" and returned to Earth 12 months later, according to my on board ship's clocks and my own biological systems, I will be returning to an Earth around 230 years in the future, with you long dead and buried.

I'm an IT guy who is considered to be an "amateur physicist". And when it comes to time, some professional physicists consider me to be the expert. Not Hawking. Me.

Self praise is never ever any recommendation, and you are only what your peers judge you to be. Hawking has credentials, reputability and respect as well as knowledge.
You have, an over inflated ego, and delusions of grandeur which your peers have acknowledged. If you were anything else, if you had anything at all of substance, including your imaginary ToE, you would not be here.

 

[OnlyMe]

And when it comes to time, some professional physicists consider me to be the expert. Not Hawking. Me.

How much context did you leave out, to arrive at this statement. You set or check the clocks, as an I. T. guy? Are you talking theory of time or ....? And just what credentials do these physicists who claim your authority possess, that validates any of what you claim? If they even really exit...

Provide some reference to the point that is not 100 years out of date.

 

[Farsight]

Except it is. eg: If I proceeded off in my space ship at 99.999% "c" and returned to Earth 12 months later, according to my on board ship's clocks and my own biological systems, I will be returning to an Earth around 230 years in the future, with you long dead and buried.

I've explained this in the OP. Haven't you read it yet? All you're doing is reducing your local motion. If we could thaw adults like embryos, we could do the same with a refrigerator. The nub of it is that you don't suffer as much local motion as the things around you. That's all it is. It isn't time travel.

Self praise is never ever any recommendation, and you are only what your peers judge you to be. Hawking has credentials, reputability and respect as well as knowledge.

Hawking is not well thought-of amongst professional physicist. He's a media darling, but his contribution to physics is slight. If you'd like to challenge that, list his achievements. And remember that Hawking radiation remains hypothetical.

You have, an over inflated ego, and delusions of grandeur which your peers have acknowledged. If you were anything else, if you had anything at all of substance, including your imaginary ToE, you would not be here.

Sticks and stone are no substitute for evidence and logic. Address the argument, here it is: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/time-travel-is-science-fiction.140847/

How much context did you leave out, to arrive at this statement. You set or check the clocks, as an I. T. guy? Are you talking theory of time or ....? And just what credentials do these physicists who claim your authority possess, that validates any of what you claim? If they even really exist...

Forget about credentials and authority, it isn't relevant. What's relevant is the physics. The evidence and the argument and the logic. Read the OP, appreciate that there is no literal time flowing in a clock, and that a clock clocks up motion.

Provide some reference to the point that is not 100 years out of date.

Sorry, I don't know what you mean. Read the OP, understand it, challenge me on it. When you appreciate what I'm saying, read Hawking's How to build a time machine. You'll appreciate that it just doesn't stack up.

 

[paddoboy]

Here is another scientific paper on time travel and its possibilities.....Plenty of squiggles etc for the more advanced among you, while at the same time, a reasonably simple explanation....It presents a spacetime geometry that would make retrograde time travel possible....A time machine no less.......
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1310.7985v1.pdf

 

[paddoboy]

I've explained this in the OP. Haven't you read it yet?

I have read your past false claims, misinterpretations and fairy tales. I don't expect this to be any different.

 

[paddoboy]

Hawking is not well thought-of amongst professional physicist. He's a media darling, but his contribution to physics is slight. If you'd like to challenge that, list his achievements. And remember that Hawking radiation remains hypothetical.

This debate isn't about Hawking. It's about you and the delusional take you have on yourself.

Sticks and stone are no substitute for evidence and logic. Address the argument, here it is: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/time-travel-is-science-fiction.140847/

No sticks and/or stones. Just telling it as it is. The evidence and self gratutitous remarks you have made are there for all to see.
That along with writing and publishing your own book and conducting all the necessary aspects of that, certainly tells us heaps about you
Here's an argument for you to address....a couple in fact.....
http://plus.maths.org/content/time-travel-allowed

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1310.7985v1.pdf