Thoughts on Modesty in Islam

Proud_Muslim

Shield of Islam
Registered Senior Member
Thoughts on Modesty

By Ruqaiyyah Waris Maqsood*

“Every religion has its characteristic, and the characteristic of Islam is modesty.”

This statement made some 1400 years ago by the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is just as relevant today as it was then. The Prophet lived in turbulent times, when slavery, debauchery, drunkenness and sexual abuse was rife; when poor women could be maltreated without redress and wealthy women could live totally without morals if they wished, without much criticism.

When the Prophet was a teenage boy he was one of the founder members of a society of “Knights of Justice” created by his uncle, determined to bring protection and fair dealing to the weak and insecure. He, and those of like mind, were loved and admired for their nobility, years before the revelation of Islam. The revelations, when they came, encouraged and exhorted them to show others that compassion, generosity, courage, modesty and patient faith were the right way to live.

Modesty is such a ‘quiet’ characteristic, that perhaps nobody thinks about it very much.

Modesty is such a ‘quiet’ characteristic, that perhaps nobody thinks about it very much. What are modest people like? They are self-effacing, and humble; they do not wish to draw too much attention to themselves. They feel embarrassed when they are given praise, and genuinely do not really feel they have done all that much to deserve it, for everything they do is no more than their duty and their delight, in serving God. They would hate to be picked out for praise above their fellows, or pushed forward into the limelight, shown off, or made to perform ‘party pieces’ for the applause of others.

Modesty also implies a personal and physical shyness and reticence, as opposed to a wish to flaunt themselves for their physical charms. In this day and age, when it seems to be taken for granted that young women wish to walk down the streets of town wearing garments that cover little more than their underwear does, and when everything seems geared up to a lifestyle that encourages females to make themselves as sexually attractive as possible, and to feel failures if they are not turning heads, women who are not like that, and do not wish to be, are regarded by some as being rather odd.

It is an unfortunate sort of discrimination, for in actual fact very large numbers of girls and women are naturally modest, and do not wish to flaunt themselves at all, and feel no sense of distress or loss if they are not arousing male desires or interested glances. Wearing hijab, or becoming a ‘covered lady’, is one of the odd problems facing girls and women who convert to Islam and who then decide to alter their style of clothing, and/or wear a head-veil.

Ironically, genuinely shy and modest women can feel really uneasy and ‘forced into the arena of public scrutiny’ when they change old habits; putting on hijab can cause people who know you to stare, or wonder why you suddenly think yourself to be ‘better’ or ‘more holy’ than them, or to bring out remarks about how well they know what you are really like; or to wonder why you are seeking to ‘dress up in fancy dress’, or pretending to be an Arab or a Pakistani or whatever. Muslim women who take the further step of covering their faces often face a similar reaction from Muslim women who don’t.

Modest behavior implies the genuine desire to do good for no reason other than to please Allah, seeking no reward, or thanks, or public notice.

This is not something that male Muslims know very much about. There is no equivalent requirement for a man as regards his clothing, or head-covering, or face-covering. I suppose something similar would be for a convert man to feel it was a good thing required by Allah to turn up at the office or go to the garage or factory in an Arab long white dress, and put a bag over his head.

Yet there are rules in Islam for male modesty. I have winced in horror on a plane coming home from Damascus in which all the male passengers were Muslims, except a couple of western tourists, who wore shirts open to the waist (sweat, chest-hair and all), and shorts, and were quite oblivious to (or not bothered by) the reaction of distaste from those all around them. In fact, male Muslims are also expected to dress modestly, in clean clothing that covers them and does not emphasize their sexuality.

Needless to say, it is not only modest clothing that is required, but also modest behavior-not the Dickensian Uriah-Heepish sort of crawling humility-but the genuine desire to do good for no reason other than to please Allah, seeking no reward, or thanks, or public notice. The cover-up clothing of Muslim women is not intended as a punishment or an endurance test, but as a wish to appear graceful and feminine without encouraging any sexual advances. ‘Covered ladies’ are not necessarily innocent youngsters, virgins about to be sacrificed in marriage, but may be mothers of half a dozen children, perhaps married several times.

http://www.islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/Individual/article03.shtml
 
Proud_Muslim said:
Modest behavior implies the genuine desire to do good for no reason other than to please Allah, seeking no reward, or thanks, or public notice.

You shouldn't be on this forum then copy-pasting links.
 
Proud Muslim, Thank you so much on your discourse on modesty as prescribed by your particular beliefs.

The only comment that I wished to make was that I have found that when one represses his or her's natural inclinations one must be prepared for behaviours that will compensate for the repression. In other words I would thinkit better that one deals with the issues that require sexual repression rather than covering them up.

Obviously the main reason that women are required to dress the way they do is mainly because the men that surround them have difficulty with their own physical desires and so they repress natural urges so as to maintain an order that is a bit like a pressure cooker waiting to go off.

The Christian Church has shown what happens when persons suffer denial. It tends to lead to perverted and distorted behaviours in other areas or life. I might add that not all abstaining priest are perverted. Nor are all abstaining Muslims.

Surely, would it not be better to learn the way of living with out unecessary repression than to live in a state of constant conflict due to avoiding this learning?
 
Today's thread seems modest indeed. Good but strange, why modesty suddenly surfaces out of the blue.?!
 
spuriousmonkey said:
I would think that a thread on modesty from you is the most fucking ironic thing I have ever seen in my entire life...
congrats

Thank you, I hope you will benefit from this thread.
 
Quantum Quack said:
Proud Muslim, Thank you so much on your discourse on modesty as prescribed by your particular beliefs.

Your welcome.

The only comment that I wished to make was that I have found that when one represses his or her's natural inclinations one must be prepared for behaviours that will compensate for the repression. In other words I would thinkit better that one deals with the issues that require sexual repression rather than covering them up.

I agree, we see what happened when priests are banned from fulfilling natural urge ( Sex ).

Obviously the main reason that women are required to dress the way they do is mainly because the men that surround them have difficulty with their own physical desires and so they repress natural urges so as to maintain an order that is a bit like a pressure cooker waiting to go off.

Yes, but the Quran instructs both men and women to be modest, The Quran asks us (men ) to lower our gaze and to dress modesly as well ( not to wear open chest shirts or shorts ).

So the attraction goes both ways.

The Christian Church has shown what happens when persons suffer denial. It tends to lead to perverted and distorted behaviours in other areas or life. I might add that not all abstaining priest are perverted. Nor are all abstaining Muslims.

But Muslims are not abstaining, we get married, our prophet got married many times, we dont supress this urge, we channel it in a way that quaranttes safety for all ( look at AIDS and how it spreads, look at the illegal childern born outside the bond of marriage, infidelity, adultery....etc ) all these actions are very harmful to the society if they are not indeed organized and in some cases supressed by human traits ( conscious for example ).

Surely, would it not be better to learn the way of living with out unecessary repression than to live in a state of constant conflict due to avoiding this learning?

Well, if you are refering to Muslims dress code for women, then the women who chose freely to observe it dont see it that way.

I know many western women who converted to Islam and observed the headscarf and the modest code of dress in Islam, they dont see it as oppression but rather as liberation from the intrusive eyes of the men around them.

Look at nature, every valuable thing is hidden and covered, if you want oil you need to dig deep down to get it, the same for diamond, the same for pearls, you need to dive deep down the sea to get them..so Islam works with nature, women for us are very dear and valuable, they need to be protected and the Islamic dress code quranttes that to large degree, it does not offer 100% protection but it helps a lot, after all, will you go after modesly headscarfed woman or after a woman with open chest and short skirts ?
 
Here's the problem PM, you treat women as some property of yours or the states or the religion. What gives you the right to determine how a woman dresses or what you deem is appropriate?

Before Jews, Christians and Muslims came around most of the people on this earth went around naked. I imagine adam and eve werent given any clothes when they were created. Even up to the 20th century some amazonian tribes still went around naked with no societal problems.(Not only south america but most of africa)

It's religion that teaches shame and creates all kinds of sexual abberations. If people were not indoctrinated early with religious bullshit, nudity would have been normal and sexual crime minimized.
 
If modesty is such a good thing why do Islamic males live by the same standard they think females should observe.
 
I think that the main problem is that religion is designed to control the lowest common denominator.
Some men regardless of religion can not cope with the sight of women or even the thought of women so the whole of the society is structured to protect itself from such individuals. Such is the need for censorship and self denial.
 
The declaration of islamic modesty displayed by Pathological_Muslim is false, coming as it does after a long history of inflated, grandiosity-laden statements made in a pompous and aggressive manner. Devoid of a proper education, he adopts the vocabulary of Islam in an attempt to gloss over complicated subjects and situations in life with a veneer of pious rightousness. Now he would have you believe that the unnatural and damaging guilt religion has associated with sex is supposed to be a virtue. What a joke.
 
Scenario


A long tme ago when man was just a wandering tribe he allowed himself every impulse and every indulgence......in doing so he created havoc and chaos and needed to change his ways if he was to find a greater happiness for himself and his loved ones. .....so Along comes religion with all it's trapings to place a rule upon people so that they couild behave better and blame their need for denial on God.........Later on some sectors of mankind realised that the need for denial and oppression was not as necessary as it was so long ago and set about liberating himself by learning about him self and stopping this "blame it on God" business........he decided that censorship whilst necessary for some was not necessary for all and that one of the ways to achieve maturity was through exposure to what he feared the most....namely himself........and in a distant galaxy many light years in the past............
 
Greco said:
Here's the problem PM, you treat women as some property of yours or the states or the religion. What gives you the right to determine how a woman dresses or what you deem is appropriate?

No one has the right to determine what women should dress but the ONE who created them, GOD and God told them in the Quran to be modest.

It's religion that teaches shame and creates all kinds of sexual abberations. If people were not indoctrinated early with religious bullshit, nudity would have been normal and sexual crime minimized.

It is only religion that elevated people from barbarism and CANNIBALISM and adulterous age to the age of purity, modesty, family and civilization.
 
Quantum Quack said:
I think that the main problem is that religion is designed to control the lowest common denominator.
Some men regardless of religion can not cope with the sight of women or even the thought of women so the whole of the society is structured to protect itself from such individuals. Such is the need for censorship and self denial.

Oh I see, now you are blaming men for everything, isnt that sexist ???? :rolleyes:
 
Proud_Muslim said:
No one has the right to determine what women should dress but the ONE who created them, GOD and God told them in the Quran to be modest.

Why did your god create women with breasts, vagina, butt, chin, neck, back and other sexual objects?

Wouldn't it have been easier to not do that or just create only blind men?
 
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Oh I see, now you are blaming men for everything, isnt that sexist ????

Proud Muslem,

You can't have it both ways....there is no question that men take a superior stance and status in Islam.....There is no doubt that women are the subject of male controls.......there is no doubt that Muslem males act as agents for their God.......so tell me am I being sexist when I say that it is only the mans lack of self discipline that requires such strong and oppressive censorship and enslavement of probably the most beautiful thing "God" has ever created..... that being women?
 
spuriousmonkey said:
Why did your god create women with breasts, vagina, butt, chin, neck, back and other sexual objects?

Wouldn't it have been easier to not do that or just create only blind men?

Allah almighty created BOTH women and men with sexula traits so that they can 1- procreate and 2- enjoy sex.

Islam is unlike christianity and other religions look at sex as way to pleasure oneself ( for both men and women ) and to procreate...Islam indeed does make sense.
 
Proud_Muslim said:
Islam is unlike christianity and other religions look at sex as way to pleasure oneself ( for both men and women ) and to procreate...Islam indeed does make sense.

I wish your sentence made sense.
 
Quantum Quack said:
Proud Muslem,

You can't have it both ways....there is no question that men take a superior stance and status in Islam.....There is no doubt that women are the subject of male controls.......there is no doubt that Muslem males act as agents for their God.......

I think you are very misinformed about gender equality in Islam, let me explain:

Gender Equality in Islam

"I shall not lose sight of the labor of any of you who labors in My way, be it man or woman; each of you is equal to the other (3:195)"

Spiritual equality, responsibility and accountability for both men and women is a well-developed theme in the Quran. Spiritual equality between men and women in the sight of God is not limited to purely spiritual, religious issues, but is the basis for equality in all temporal aspects of human endeavor.

Adam and Eve: Gender Equality

The concept of gender equality is best exemplified in the Quranic rendition of Adam and Eve. The Quran states that both sexes were deliberate and independent and there is no mention of Eve being created out of Adam's rib or anything else. Even in the issue of which sex was created first is not specified, implying that for our purpose in this world, it may not matter.


"O mankind! Be conscious of your Sustainer, who has created you out of one living entity (nafs), and out of it created its mate, and out of hte two spread abroad a multitude of men and women. And remain conscious of God, in whose name you demand your rights from one another, and of these ties of kinship. Verily, God is ever watchful over you! (4:1)"

Quranic translators disagree on the meaning of "nafs" in the above verse which Muhammad Asad translates as "living entity." Many claim that "nafs" translates as "person," that is, Adam. But according to Asad and other scholars, God created humankind and its sexual counterpart out of its own kind. The Arabic word referring to mate (zawj) in the above Quranic verse is grammatically neutral and can be applied both ot male and female interchangeably. So it is not clear, nor should we conjecture, that Adam was created first, Eve was created out of Adam, or that Eve/woman is innately subservient to Adam/man. The fact that this Quranic verse does not specify one specific sex over the other is proof of gender non-bias and equality. It is commonly (and mistakenly) argued that Adam was created first, and that by this gesture God finds the male dominant and superior to the female; however, the wording of the Quran in the aforementioned verse does not support this claim.

The Quran describes how Adam and Eve were told to avoid a specific tree, which they both approached. For this act of disobedience to God, they were consequently banished from the garden; however, later both repented and were forgiven by God. The Quran does not allude to Eve tempting Adam to eat from the tree and being responsible for their downfall. In the Quranic version, both were held accountable and both paid the price for their choices, proving that gender equality is an intrinsic part of Islamic belief. (See Quran 2:30-37)

Accountability, Independence, and Freedom of Choice

Women are independent individuals, as exemplified by the fact that all human beings will be accountable for their own intentions and deeds on the Day of Judgment when "no human being shall be of the least avail to another human being" (82:19) If men were ultimately responsibile for women (fathers for their daughters, husbands for their wives, etc.), then this accountability would be solely on men's shoulders to bear until the Day of Judgment. But this is not the case: "And whatever wrong any human being commits rests upon himself alone; and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another's burden..." (6:165)

Consequently, we cannot be judged according to our own deeds unless we have the freedom of choice to do so. This free choice carries with it the responsibility to make the right choices or paying the consequence for wrong ones, best exemplified by Adam and Eve.

Equality in Practice

In the Quran, reference to men and women is through attributes and deeds, by which we will be judged. The most pious of us, or those who follow God's commands, are referred to as "believers" or "mu'mineen" (pl.) in the Quran. In many references, in fact, the Quran resonates this equality by eloquently repeating "men and women" with ethical and practical qualities throughout the verses, and even emphasizes this ten times in the following verse:

"Verily for all men and women who have surrendered themselves unto God, and all believing men and believing women, and all truly devout men and truly devout women, and all men and women who are true to their word, and all men and women who are patient in adversity, and all men and women who humble themselves before God, and all men and women who give in charity, and all self-denying men and self-denying women, and all men and women who are mindful of their chastity, and all men and women who remmber God unceasingly: for all of them has God readied forgiveness of sins and a mighty reward." (33:35)

It is paramount to understand that the Quran equates being a "mu'min" (sing.) with actual practice, so that it is not enough to just have faith in principle; we must put our faith into practice. The same applies to our belief in the equality of men and women; gender equality as outlined in the Quran must also be put into practice. In reference to the above verse, modern scholar Laila Ahmed in "Women and Gender in Islam" says that "the implications are far-reaching. Ethical qualities, including those invoked here--charity, chastity, truthfulness, patience, piety--also have political and social dimensions."

SOURCE: Muslim Women leauge in the United States of America:

http://www.mwlusa.org/publications/positionpapers/gender.html

More here:

http://www.jannah.org/genderequity/equitynotes.html

I highly recommend this for you:

Gender Equality and Justice in Islam
by Riffat Hassan, Ph.D.


http://www.irfi.org/Islamic Articles Folder3/Dr. Riffat Hassan/gender_equality_and_justice_in_i.htm
 
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