Thou shalt Not Kill?

[Adstar]

LOL @ why do you ask about verse 16?

And yes, Adstar, that's exactly what I was saying. People worship a god that has instructed it's followers to murder their fellow human being. 1/3 of this world worships this god. Who's going to say when this god (of zealous, convincing "Prophet") reverts back to this act?

It's scary.

Well when Jesus returns on the day of the Lord many millions of people will die. He will destroy and army of 200 million massed on the plains of meggedo in isreal. that’s the battle of Armageddon.

Gods wrath will be poured out again and that is scary. for those who have rejected the love of the truth and found joy in evil.

As the book of Revelation reveals:

Revelation 6
14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Who is the lamb of God. Jesus is his name.

Scary indeed.

Guess they will be using those massive nuclear bunkers they have built into the mountains after all. how vain.. Do they expect the walls to save them from the wrath of Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

I first want to commend you on your boldness, adstar. You're a true Christian, whereas so many others fall by the wayside. They were afraid of this post, they knew not what to say. And you stepped up with an calm intrepidty thus unseen. Bravo!

...now...



16, I did not ask about, in particular. It was actually 6-16. 16 being included because it tells you to "beat a dead horse"...rather redundant is it not?

In your thinking i guess so. I don't particularly understand why God wanted them to do it.( destroy property) I guess it was a demonstration that false teachings where so wrong that they made the possessions of those who taught them unclean also. We see time and time again in the gospels the Jews tearing the cloths of their own backs when they heard something that they thought was blasphemy said in their presence. it was like that very sound waves of what they thought was blasphemy made their own cloths dirty.

Despite, my question of the passages in general, was answered almost satisfactorily. I wanted to know what you THINK about it, how you interpret it.

The price of sin is death. One who teaches false teachings in relation to thing God is worthy of being put to death. God required the Jews to carry out the death penalty for him. I feel that this was because he wanted them to be reminded of the price of sin and wanted the world to know the seriousness of the sin. The price of death for this sin still stands. People who seek to entice Christians to go and worship other gods are still under a death sentance. what has changed is that God no longer requires us to carry out that death penalty.

So the process of the law has changed. Not the death penalty that is the outcome of seeking to entice followers of God to worship other gods.

It is clearly a "violent" thing to spill the blood of your children, wife (wives) or friends AT LEAST by today's standards. I don't believe it was something Jesus particularly preach to do either.

Your right there. Jesus taught us to be messengers of Gods Grace/forgiveness and until Jesus comes again that’s what true Christians will be doing. Loving, forgiving and revealing the gift of forgiveness Jesus proclaimed. But the time when humanity can accept grace will not last forever because God while being longsuffering to the current state of mankind will not allow this state to exist into eternity. God has His plan and His time line.

It would surely be considered "murder" in American court (I would hope anyway) and should surely be lumped in with a violation of the ten commandments.

No murder is unjustifiable/unlawful killing. When God gives commandment to kill then it is not murder but the carrying out of an execution order given by God. The Jews that followed Gods instructions on these matters rightly where never guilty of murder.

In fact, there is no commandment that says "You can directly disobey any or all of the other commandments in the name of God" So really it shouldn't be warranted...unless you believe the rest of the bible supercedes the commandments, rendering them null and void on all accounts, as they are the smaller part of the two and anything outside of them that is contradictory but written under the inspiration of God gets first priority?

Lost me here. Confusing to me. If you can please try and break these up into points or try rewording it in might help me understand what you are getting at and allow me to answer you in a considered and informed manner.

Moreover if one wants to separate "Kill" from "Murder" (which is very difficult to do when one INTENDS to kill someone) even then killing one's parents seems to be a dishonorable thing, leaving our beloved 5th commandment, violated.

Intention has no relevance to the law in regard to carrying out the penalty of the law.

For example. Wether an executioner tasked with giving a lethal injection to a condemned prisoner to day does so with enthusiasm or reluctance makes no difference. Their duty is to carry out the judgement of the court. Likewise the Jews who carried out these judgements of God. it is irrelevant of they did so with enthusiasm or reluctance.

So is it your interpretation, adstar, that these things in the selected passage would not be considered "ok" nor pious today?

Once again it has everything to do with what Gods will is for his followers Today. If i where to do what the Jews where told to do in the referenced scriptures then i would be in rebellion against the teachings of Jesus. I would be in the wrong.

But the law remains true and constant:

It was wrong back them to entice followers of God to worship other Gods and the penalty for doing so was death.

And it is wrong today for them to entice followers of God to worship other Gods and the penalty for doing so is still death.

The only change is the carrying out of the Law. in the past it was physical death carried out by men under the authority of God. Today however God himself carries out the punishment of the law when he deems it proper. After He has given them wrongdoers a life time to repent of their acts and accept the atonement of the Messiah Jesus for the forgiveness of those sins.

Or should it be recognized and encouraged by the Big Boys at the Vatican?

What have i to do with the "Big Boys at the Vatican?" They have their traditions, I have Jesus.

What is the MOST important aspect of Salvation and being with the Lord:

Listening to God when when instructions are given or follolwing the Word of God selectively?

Believing and trusting in the atonement that Jesus has provided all whom will believe and trust in it.

And it is not a selective thing at all. It is following the will of God and travelling with Him in faith acting according to his will as His eternal plan unfolds and is revealed.

Because if the bible IS the word of God rather than WAS the word of God, you're doing a terrible job at being a Christian if you're not out desolating villiages, universities, and churches.

Once again Jesus did not change the law regarding the wrongness of enticing followers of God to follow other gods.

I attest that it is still wrong for people to entice followers of God to follow other gods and that the lawful penalty for doing this is still Death.

I as a Christian am following Gods instructions in regard to the change in the way this death penalty is and when this death penalty is carried out.

The Law has not changed, merely the process ( the way the law is carried out) has changed.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[edenocp]

Paganism of Trinity

To see Jesus as God is a pagan idea introduced by greco-romans who had a vast pantheon of idols-roman cath. The trinity also-zeus jupiter and venus a long worshipped god incorporated into christianity by catholics to draw the masses driven by money.
It is non scriptural - invented by man/dogma.
so you would just be killing a lot of mistaken people who blindly follow dogma instead of studying it themselves. An honest mistake no less but not by the forgers of this untruth.
Adam was the first son of God made from the dust of the earth, Jesus was first begotten (of a woman) son of God who brought the gift of holy spirit on a permanent basis to us all rather than the temporary status that was all that was available until he came. Holy spirit - what God is- light. As I recall Elijah foretold

 

[edenocp]

OOps using a pda trouble with scrolling
So Joel 2:28 to 32 and so many other references to the great day when God would pour ou his spirit to all mankind.
If we lift the veil of the Trinity fallacy we may see the truth.

 

[earth]

For some people restraining reality in their tightly controlled world is a must when they are resolute in letting their imaginations run amok; consider Jesus returning and then imagine suitably. People place themselves in a frame of mind so that they are not allowing for the orderliness of a God rather envisioning chaos.

 

[Scaramouche]

It's not "kill", it's "murder". Thou shalt not murder. There was never any prohibition against killing in Christianity. Indeed, in one of the apocrypha, Jesus specifically mentions a case in which it's ok to kill folks. Most modern complaints about the hypocrisy involved with Christians killing people are based on a lack of understanding of that.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

The price of sin is death. One who teaches false teachings in relation to thing God is worthy of being put to death. God required the Jews to carry out the death penalty for him. I feel that this was because he wanted them to be reminded of the price of sin and wanted the world to know the seriousness of the sin. The price of death for this sin still stands. People who seek to entice Christians to go and worship other gods are still under a death sentance. what has changed is that God no longer requires us to carry out that death penalty.

Adstar,

This would have destroyed the Jewish family.

You would have loving parents turned into imperfect enforcers of anger, fear, and death. The hearts and souls of the "good" parents and other "good" siblings would be turned toward judgement and condemnation of each other and eventually the actual killing of their own children, brothers and sisters. This would destroy their hearts for a lifetime.

To know you killed your own child! To know you killed your own sister, for the rest of your life! To know your own father and mother killed your own sister! Your "good" heart would have to become Stone Cold like the Stones you use to kill them. The children would be living in fear of their own family members their whole lives and family love, vulnerability, and intimacy would be destroyed. Honor for and trust of your own parents...Destroyed.

These are mere imperfect people making these life and death decisions, not God, so the likelyhood of abuse and horrific error should not be underestimated.

How can God want this for his own people? They are even told specifically to have no mercy. How can God actively teach his own people this evil instead of love, patience, and dare I say forgiveness?

All a parent has to do is tell their child "NO". They don't have to KILL THEM!!!

It would be hell on earth for all of them.

No society can survive this method of raising children.

This teaching must be evil in the eyes of God, it cannot be otherwise.

Where is your heart, in thinking this teaching is good, Adstar???

Has your heart now been made Stone Cold and Merciless like them???

 

[Adstar]

Adstar,

This would have destroyed the Jewish family.

The Jews lived under these laws for quite a few generations and they did not implode.

You would have loving parents turned into imperfect enforcers of anger, fear, and death. The hearts and souls of the "good" parents and other "good" siblings would be turned toward judgement and condemnation of each other and eventually the actual killing of their own children, brothers and sisters. This would destroy their hearts for a lifetime.

In the example we are talking about it would be only for those who tried to lead their family members into worshipping another god other than Yaveh.

It would have been hard for them to do. But if they loved God more than their family members then they would do it.

To know you killed your own child! To know you killed your own sister, for the rest of your life! To know your own father and mother killed your own sister! Your "good" heart would have to become Stone Cold like the Stones you use to kill them.

No you would mourn their sin, mourn their death and mourn their loss.

The children would be living in fear of their own family members their whole lives and family love, vulnerability, and intimacy would be destroyed. Honor for and trust of your own parents...Destroyed.

Only if they where intent on trying to lead their family into worshipping other gods.

These are mere imperfect people making these life and death decisions, not God, so the likelyhood of abuse and horrific error should not be underestimated.

Well that could have happened. But it would be pretty obvious if a family member is preaching to you another god and trying to get you to reject the God of Abraham and follow it.

How can God want this for his own people? They are even told specifically to have no mercy. How can God actively teach his own people this evil instead of love, patience, and dare I say forgiveness?

Of course God taught Love. patience and forgiveness. But also that sin is sin and the penalty of sin is death.

All a parent has to do is tell their child "NO". They don't have to KILL THEM!!!

Then i guess they would be doomed as well.

It would be hell on earth for all of them.

It would have been hard. But people are far more resilient then you give them credit for.

No society can survive this method of raising children.

The Jewish People once did and they prospered too.

This teaching must be evil in the eyes of God, it cannot be otherwise.
Where is your heart, in thinking this teaching is good, Adstar???

Has your heart now been made Stone Cold and Merciless like them???

Jeremiah 17
9 “ The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
10 I, the LORD, search the heart,
I test the mind,

My heart is with YAVEH.

Who is your heart with?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[BlueRidge]

Sadly, there is this misconception among atheist and other faiths that a Christian is suppose to be some kind of wimpy push over that allow themselves to be kicked around or killed without a fight. I have NOT found that kind of message in my own regular reading of scripture.

Never assume there is some law in the Bible that says lay down and be killed. On the contrary. The OT (for those who read it), is packed full of smiting and violence. The book of Revelation, the final chapter, Jesus comes back, and he's gonna kill millions. Half way through the saga of Christ and all that wonderful warm fuzzy feeling, he is confronted in the garden and one of his disciples draws his sword and hacks off the ear of another man. Jesus told him to put that sword away, no mention of falling to his knees and begging for forgiveness.

My personal take- God says, thou shall not kill. He means flagrant murder. As is the general consensus among Biblical scholars.

Jesus said- Matthew 5:21-26. In a nut shell, you go killing someone without cause and you're gonna pay. However I never told you people don't kill in acts self defense, war, criminal judgment etc.

In keeping with my Lord, I apply mercy and grace first. But threaten the life of me and mine, and I'll put a bullet in your a** in a heartbeat. And the only prayer I'll pray afterward is to ease the grief of the mother of the deceased.

Yes, my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, is a very nice guy. But he didn't pick wuss bags for disciples, he picked some very hardened men. The Apostle Paul was a blood thirsty killer in his day, who went out killing and arresting the early Christians. God forgave Paul, and made him an Apostle.

I can find no place in the Bible where God/Jesus ever once said- Hey ya'll, I need a bunch of gutless wuss bags, push overs, and namby pamby's to work for me in this EASY line of work. It's just ministering to atheist and pagans. They never throw stones at you or try to kill you.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

The Jews lived under these laws for quite a few generations and they did not implode.

They fell away from and rejected these teachings about God over and over and over again. Remember?

Perhaps their was a reason...

The New Testament declares that "The Law" was impossible to keep (was a curse) and yet in the Old Testament they were commanded to keep it or die. This was cruel beyond imagination and should have been and actually was rejected by all good people.

In the example we are talking about it would be only for those who tried to lead their family members into worshipping another god other than Yaveh.

You know very well that there are quite a number of other teachings given in the Old Testament that instruct you to kill your family members for other sins as well.

In my own family, growing up, my parents would have had to kill or murder their own son, my own brother, because he was a homosexual. And that would have completely destroyed our entire family. Instead they "sinned", possibly because they loved him more than God, I guess according to your warped logic, and let him live. So he ended up becoming a Christian later because of love and forgiveness. Was that an evil result?

It would have been hard for them to do. But if they loved God more than their family members then they would do it.

You are right here, only the most religious and dedicated among them would have been able to trump their love for their own children with this evil teaching. The less religious would not be able to do it at all, ever.

This teaching was not from God... All they ever had was the word of one single man (the human author) that this particular scripture was the "Word of God". He might have been horribly wrong.

As you pointed out yourself...

Jeremiah 17
9 “ The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?

The man who wrote this teaching is no exception to this.

No you would mourn their sin, mourn their death and mourn their loss.

Only if your heart was Stone Cold and devoid of feelings could you even kill them in the first place.

Well that could have happened. But it would be pretty obvious if a family member is preaching to you another god and trying to get you to reject the God of Abraham and follow it.

There are good reasons why things like this are illegal now. Would you suggest that these Laws are so good that they should be brought back.

Of course God taught Love. patience and forgiveness. But also that sin is sin and the penalty of sin is death.

He also taught us that we are not to judge others since we are not even capable of judging ourselves correctly. We are taught... Condemn and you will be Condemned, Forgive and you will be Forgiven, there is only one Judge and we are not him. Remember these?

Who is your heart with?

Your heart is controlled by ink and words on paper (by the letter of the Law)... apparently not by the Spirit.

My heart tries to follow justice, love, and mercy. I accept good teachings from any source and reject evil teachings from the same. It is the best I can do.

 

[iceaura]

The stuff in the Bible about destroying possessions, killing cows and horses and burning towns and the like, can be read differently in context: it discourages killing for plunder.

In a violent world, limiting the killings to those authorized by the Priest (speaking for God, who then as now had trouble speaking for Himself for some reason), and removing the motive of straight robbery, may have been a civilizing influence, a gain in law and order and neighborliness.

Sadly, there is this misconception among atheist and other faiths that a Christian is suppose to be some kind of wimpy push over that allow themselves to be kicked around or killed without a fight.

Very few, if any, atheists or people of other faiths have that misconception about how Christians really are.

I've never met anyone who thinks of Christians as nonviolent people, except other Christians.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Sadly, there is this misconception among atheist and other faiths that a Christian is suppose to be some kind of wimpy push over that allow themselves to be kicked around or killed without a fight. I have NOT found that kind of message in my own regular reading of scripture.

This scripture is clearly not talking about protecting yourself from someone who is trying to kill you.

It is talking about killing your own children instead of simply telling them...

"NO... and don't ever tell me that again Jim Bob"

It teaches killing your own children without mercy.

How can you agree with that????????????????

 

[BlueRidge]

This scripture is clearly not talking about protecting yourself from someone who is trying to kill you.

It is talking about killing your own children instead of simply telling them...

"NO... and don't ever tell me that again Jim Bob"

It teaches killing your own children without mercy.

How can you agree with that????????????????

Good grief! What Bible are you reading??? I haven't seen a word about killing your own children, or anyone else's. It repeatedly professes mercy, grace, and forgiveness. "thou shall not kill"= murder. It doesn't forbid killing in acts of self defense, war, or criminal justice.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Good grief! What Bible are you reading??? I haven't seen a word about killing your own children, or anyone else's.

Well there is this...

6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9But thou shalt surely kill him;

Did you miss the first thread post?

 

[BlueRidge]

Well there is this...

6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9But thou shalt surely kill him;

Did you miss the first thread post?

Ok gottcha. Again, i see no language suggesting we kill our own children. Also.. different translations sometimes result in different readings. No tto mention how literal some take a passage. When Jesus said sell your possessions and follow me... yaddah yaddah. He meant unload your sinful life and follow my teaching. The "Bible" is jam packed full of metaphors and examples of teaching. But there's a massive amount of scripture the KJV didn't allow. there are also "the lost gospels". It really does require FAR MORE than just picking up a KJV and cherry picking passages and verses to get a grip on what the Lord is saying. I drowned myself in 3 years of "Bible", Christian radio, and church every week (on going) to get where I am and wouldn't go toe to toe with someone fresh out of seminary. Plus, what is Jewish law vs. God's word/will? This is where gray areas pop up and arguments start. Jewish law may say, stone the sucker! God's will may say, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Which was the case of the adulteress under Jewish law of the time. biblical scholars will be the first to tell you, the Bible and being Christian is tricky stuff.

You know how many interpret "wasted the seed on the ground" as sex is only for procreation? That was a case of disobedience. God never said don't go out and do freaky things with your spouse, cuz you can! As long as you respect your wife and look at her though God's eye's, he really doesn't care if handcuff her and do crazy things in the sack, if it makes her happy. He didn't give ya all those fun parts for nuthin! The Bible is very specific about how you treat your lover, disrespect and physical abuse is a major no no. Unless of course she likes being spanked. Then feel free.

It's not a bad gig really. I have learned to stop over analyzing the Bible. Pay close attention to good pastoral guidance, and do go frettin' the small stuff. God doesn't want you sweatin' bullets with guilt, he wants you to be HAPPY. So long as you live in his will.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Ok gottcha. Again, i see no language suggesting we kill our own children. Also.. different translations sometimes result in different readings. No tto mention how literal some take a passage. When Jesus said sell your possessions and follow me... yaddah yaddah. He meant unload your sinful life and follow my teaching. The "Bible" is jam packed full of metaphors and examples of teaching. But there's a massive amount of scripture the KJV didn't allow. there are also "the lost gospels". It really does require FAR MORE than just picking up a KJV and cherry picking passages and verses to get a grip on what the Lord is saying. I drowned myself in 3 years of "Bible", Christian radio, and church every week (on going) to get where I am and wouldn't go toe to toe with someone fresh out of seminary. Plus, what is Jewish law vs. God's word/will? This is where gray areas pop up and arguments start. Jewish law may say, stone the sucker! God's will may say, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Which was the case of the adulteress under Jewish law of the time. biblical scholars will be the first to tell you, the Bible and being Christian is tricky stuff.

You know how many interpret "wasted the seed on the ground" as sex is only for procreation? That was a case of disobedience. God never said don't go out and do freaky things with your spouse, cuz you can! As long as you respect your wife and look at her though God's eye's, he really doesn't care if handcuff her and do crazy things in the sack, if it makes her happy. He didn't give ya all those fun parts for nuthin! The Bible is very specific about how you treat your lover, disrespect and physical abuse is a major no no. Unless of course she likes being spanked. Then feel free.

It's not a bad gig really. I have learned to stop over analyzing the Bible. Pay close attention to good pastoral guidance, and do go frettin' the small stuff. God doesn't want you sweatin' bullets with guilt, he wants you to be HAPPY. So long as you live in his will.

Some Christians would agree with you and others would just throw you into hell without mercy so they could remain faithful to their God.

 

[BlueRidge]

Some Christians would agree with you and others would just throw you into hell without mercy so they could remain faithful to their God.

Very true. There are different levels and sects of Christianity. And some are just plain nuts. Yes, God will always help you. But don't expect him to heal your child through prayer when you have a perfectly good hospital around the corner. He says- don't test me. And those who beat themselves up during repentance are doing it unnecessarily. He says and He means it, rest your burdens on me. If you fail to.. whose fault is that?

If you would like. Read the George Muller story. This is true faith and answered prayer. Muller was a scoundrel and a scum bag. But when the Boss decides it's time to change Georges life, there is no fighting it, no running away, no escape. Happens to all of us who accept God. Muller held the Boss to his word(gusty stuff), and damn'd if the Boss didn't deliver every single time.

http://www.tlogical.net/biomuller.htm

 

[sandy]

Sadly, there is this misconception among atheist and other faiths that a Christian is suppose to be some kind of wimpy push over that allow themselves to be kicked around or killed without a fight. I have NOT found that kind of message in my own regular reading of scripture.

Never assume there is some law in the Bible that says lay down and be killed. On the contrary. The OT (for those who read it), is packed full of smiting and violence. The book of Revelation, the final chapter, Jesus comes back, and he's gonna kill millions. Half way through the saga of Christ and all that wonderful warm fuzzy feeling, he is confronted in the garden and one of his disciples draws his sword and hacks off the ear of another man. Jesus told him to put that sword away, no mention of falling to his knees and begging for forgiveness.

My personal take- God says, thou shall not kill. He means flagrant murder. As is the general consensus among Biblical scholars.

Jesus said- Matthew 5:21-26. In a nut shell, you go killing someone without cause and you're gonna pay. However I never told you people don't kill in acts self defense, war, criminal judgment etc.

In keeping with my Lord, I apply mercy and grace first. But threaten the life of me and mine, and I'll put a bullet in your a** in a heartbeat. And the only prayer I'll pray afterward is to ease the grief of the mother of the deceased.

Yes, my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, is a very nice guy. But he didn't pick wuss bags for disciples, he picked some very hardened men. The Apostle Paul was a blood thirsty killer in his day, who went out killing and arresting the early Christians. God forgave Paul, and made him an Apostle.

I can find no place in the Bible where God/Jesus ever once said- Hey ya'll, I need a bunch of gutless wuss bags, push overs, and namby pamby's to work for me in this EASY line of work. It's just ministering to atheist and pagans. They never throw stones at you or try to kill you.

Oh, my. You have posted some really good sh*t today. Wow. I really like you now.

 

[Doreen]

Never assume there is some law in the Bible that says lay down and be killed. On the contrary. The OT (for those who read it), is packed full of smiting and violence.

But the OT and the NT do not fit together well. I see nothing in Jesus to support the kind of violence people are told by God to perform in the OT, for example.

The book of Revelation, the final chapter, Jesus comes back, and he's gonna kill millions.

Not that Jesus ever said this.

My personal take- God says, thou shall not kill. He means flagrant murder. As is the general consensus among Biblical scholars.

So a less flagrant murder would be OK?

Jesus said- Matthew 5:21-26. In a nut shell, you go killing someone without cause and you're gonna pay. However I never told you people don't kill in acts self defense, war, criminal judgment etc.

He did tell people to turn the other cheek.

Yes, my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, is a very nice guy. But he didn't pick wuss bags for disciples, he picked some very hardened men. The Apostle Paul was a blood thirsty killer in his day, who went out killing and arresting the early Christians. God forgave Paul, and made him an Apostle.

After which he stopped killing. You do understand that the idea of Christianity is that one can completely change. So his 'not being a wimp' before is irrevelent.

I can find no place in the Bible where God/Jesus ever once said- Hey ya'll, I need a bunch of gutless wuss bags, push overs, and namby pamby's to work for me in this EASY line of work. It's just ministering to atheist and pagans. They never throw stones at you or try to kill you.

There is a difference between being a wuss bag and, for example, being against a war that is based on oil or includes carpet bombing of civilians. Of course these wars did have Christian objectors, but a great mass of American Christians seem to think if the government says it is time to kill in large numbers it is time to kill, despite their close reading of the Bible. With little sense of history or context they jump to OT solutions rather than a NT outlook. And this ignorance and choice supports significant numbers of deaths.

 

[BlueRidge]

But the OT and the NT do not fit together well. I see nothing in Jesus to support the kind of violence people are told by God to perform in the OT, for example.

Not that Jesus ever said this.
So a less flagrant murder would be OK?

He did tell people to turn the other cheek.

After which he stopped killing. You do understand that the idea of Christianity is that one can completely change. So his 'not being a wimp' before is irrevelent.

There is a difference between being a wuss bag and, for example, being against a war that is based on oil or includes carpet bombing of civilians. Of course these wars did have Christian objectors, but a great mass of American Christians seem to think if the government says it is time to kill in large numbers it is time to kill, despite their close reading of the Bible. With little sense of history or context they jump to OT solutions rather than a NT outlook. And this ignorance and choice supports significant numbers of deaths.

Please don't multi quote me, I don't have the time.

Answer one for you. NO murder is not ok, it's forbidden. Murder and killing are 2 different things. If you walk up to a stranger and shoot them in the face for no reason that's murder. Right? If you defend you're own life, you killed. Right? Think God of all beings, doesn't know the difference?