ripleofdeath
Registered Senior Member
i ask you this...
"did Jesus tell people to worship him?"
"did Jesus tell people to worship him?"
those who worship Jesus
- Thread starter ripleofdeath
- Start date
No he did not. His disciples did. I wonder if Peter worshipped Jesus and had a little hand carved cross he would wear around his neck? When Jesus attained the level of deity and could speak to a person through his or her thoughts then people began to worship Jesus as a God.
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M*W: And you believe this to be true because...?
Thomas worshiped Jesus and Jesus never rebuked him for it.
John 20
27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Woman worshiped Jesus upon His resurection and Jesus never rebuked them for it.
Matthew 28
8 So they went out quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring His disciples word.9 And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, “Rejoice!” So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell My brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see Me.”
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
superstring01
Moderator
Sooooo. . . a two thousand year old book, revised, recopied, added too, subtracted from and handed down through numerous people is to be believed. Wonderful!
~String
~String
Scaramouche
Registered Member
No. Jesus was all about the path of spiritual evolution, ascendance, or whatever you want to call it, and told people to view him as the guy pointing the way toward that goal rather than him being the goal.
A better question is,"who did Jesus worship?" God? Satan? Himself? Statues?
If your answer is God, I suggest you do the same.
ripleofdeath
Registered Senior Member
Soo... it would appear that 9 out of 10 would agree that Jesus never asked or told people to worship him.
This is what i suspected because of my own study into these concepts.
Ego would not allow him to ask people to worship him which was my premise.
But ego would also not allow him to potentially destroy the heart and soul of another to tell them that they should not worship him if they did.
Obviously the church has been used for hundreds if not thousands of years to simply be the vehicle to steal and collect power using manipulation and brain washing(keeping the populace ignorant and of low intellect).
so they would promote the worship of a man and then attempt to simplify him as much as possible so they may emulate the watered down version with all its perversions(i speak more soo about the ego).
While i personally see nothing wrong with Worshipping Jesus just like one may have a role model (some role models are unobtainable in their unique skill ability) maybe a focus should be on the celebration of Jesus being a role model more soo than a god.
what does the catholic church have to lose by this assertion ?
Lets put this in a very simple light, Jesus, as far as i am aware never did any act that is greater than any number of other "normal" people claim to be capable of today ?
personally when i hear people say the words of "our/my lord god jesus" etc, it kinda makes my skin crawl in the abject postulation of the possible bastardisation of the ego being normalised in common man.
This is what i suspected because of my own study into these concepts.
Ego would not allow him to ask people to worship him which was my premise.
But ego would also not allow him to potentially destroy the heart and soul of another to tell them that they should not worship him if they did.
Obviously the church has been used for hundreds if not thousands of years to simply be the vehicle to steal and collect power using manipulation and brain washing(keeping the populace ignorant and of low intellect).
so they would promote the worship of a man and then attempt to simplify him as much as possible so they may emulate the watered down version with all its perversions(i speak more soo about the ego).
While i personally see nothing wrong with Worshipping Jesus just like one may have a role model (some role models are unobtainable in their unique skill ability) maybe a focus should be on the celebration of Jesus being a role model more soo than a god.
what does the catholic church have to lose by this assertion ?
Lets put this in a very simple light, Jesus, as far as i am aware never did any act that is greater than any number of other "normal" people claim to be capable of today ?
personally when i hear people say the words of "our/my lord god jesus" etc, it kinda makes my skin crawl in the abject postulation of the possible bastardisation of the ego being normalised in common man.
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superstring01
Moderator
I never knew the guy. Though, in the bible, it does state rather specifically: "I am the way, the truth, the life. There is no way to the Father but through me."
Which implies that you have to do SOMETHING to/for Yeshuah* to get into heaven.
Though, I can't say that means worship, and I won't vouch for the veracity in the modern bible, which is just a compilation of various works, arbitrarily assembled in various synods (Hippo being the biggest one).
~String
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*Jesus's name was really "Yeshuah", which history early on shortened to "Yeshu", which became "Jesu" and then "Jesus". In reality, his name was Joshuah.
superstring01
Moderator
The early followers of jesus were jews, which, for many reasons meant that there weren't any great prospects for a burgeoning congregation within Israel. Paul made a big break through (post-Damascus) preaching to gentiles so that within a generation or two, what was previously commonly understood to be a jewish movement became a movement of former pagans. In the process of that change, a the pagans brought with them a host of assumptions. For instance in pagan culture religion cannot be taken seriously unless you have a man becoming a god (many examples there, from Ceaser to Caligula). Paganism is also extremely comfortable with polytheism, which sees the introduction of the trinity doctrine.
So with all these issues escalating, around the 300's there was a major movement in the christian world (led by such persons as Arius) to peel back all this ethnic issues that were making headway as christian principles of doctrine, and get back to the essential jesus (eg - Jesus always describes himself as being subordinate god etc etc .... what to speak of Jesus proclaiming himself as god, not even the persecutors of Jesus tried him for proclaiming himself as god ... which would have been an easier means for warranting a death sentence).
This dilemma divided the christian world with practically half of them (particularly the educated) rejecting the doctrine of the trinity, and accepting that there is an ontological distinction between jesus and god. Interesting enough, the doctrine of trinity was established by military conquest, particularly by persons such as ("saint") Athanasius (who by all impartial historical accounts was a thug, literally burning down the opposition) ... who also happened to be on the council determining what went into the final cut of the new testament (since at the time there were merely hundreds of books around). So all this means that there wasn't a new testament until many hundreds of years after jesus was around. The result was that afterwards it became a serious crime to proclaim that the best way to understand Jesus is by listening to what he has to say about himself (for instance if you took jesus's statements about being less than god seriously you could be killed for saying so), but rather you had to reject what jesus said about himself and listen to what the church said about him.
All this is part of a greater historical tendency within religion to upgrade the leader after they have left and then stigmatize any persons who try to understand the leader as they understood themself.
I'm tired of it. I see this crap every place I go online. There's dozens of just Bible websites out there. A couple are phenomenal, giving any translation in any version. But, when I start seeing stupid chit like "a 2000 year old book", I'm done. Scriptures are thousands of years old, the KJV (the Bible) is only hundreds. Wheres this 2000 year old tell all book that's always supporting far left atheist views on the matter? We can't even get past the age of the Bible, and anyone wonders why I back out and let dogs eat dogs.
I'll answer serious questions. Not mockery and cheap shots, my time is more valuable than that. And there's no requirement for me to convert an atheist. They wanna rot, fine with me.
Yes.
The Bible says the only thing you have to do is believe, accept Him as your Lord and Savior, repent of your sins, and you will be saved.
Last time I posted facts I got banned. You mean facts that support *your* beliefs?superstring01 said:
superstring01
Moderator
Well, obviously TO YOU and other people who buy into fairy tales.
Precisely. A two thousand year old STORY, backed up by a book that was arbitrarily assembled from various--and often times disagreeing--testimonies during the first several hundred years of Christianity's existence doesn't really bode well for any truth in the document.
Now you're lying as usual, which is your MO. You were banned for being hateful. If I had my way, you would have been permanently banned, and your IP and any version thereof banned for good as well. You got off on the lucky side as I see you're still here.
~String
superstring01
Moderator
I'm not far left. In fact, I'm quite centrist (though to the real leftists on this website, I'm called a right winger).
I just don't believe in religion and I think there's a strong history to support the need for rejecting Christianity, including just plane good science, which Christians just ignore whenever the facts contradict their desperate need to believe in an almighty.
~String
i looked up the definition of worship because imo many of the typical religious acts of worship today seem very hollow and ceremonial to me. so worship defined is a love, devotion, and an adoration of what is believed to be a deity, and the acts that exemplify that. to me, singing a song, clapping your hands, participating in a ceremony or ritual, or a recitation is not worship.
from what i understand, jesus is our savior, and the way, truth, and the light because he is a catalyst to the perfection of the human race and to our existence. he provides the means to a restored communion with god. one that is currently hindered by sin. this realization, that perfection, eternal life, and communion is attainable, and that currently, there is something inherently wrong with humanity that inhibits it, creates a new vision within an individual that significantly shapes their behavior. that resulting behavior imo is what defines true worship.
from what i understand, jesus is our savior, and the way, truth, and the light because he is a catalyst to the perfection of the human race and to our existence. he provides the means to a restored communion with god. one that is currently hindered by sin. this realization, that perfection, eternal life, and communion is attainable, and that currently, there is something inherently wrong with humanity that inhibits it, creates a new vision within an individual that significantly shapes their behavior. that resulting behavior imo is what defines true worship.
Name one time I have EVER lied. I have posted stuff from the Bible (in religion threads), been called a troll and warned. I do not support sending money to Haiti and got banned for my politically incorrect opinion about that whole situation. I thought you liberals were all about free speech? You used to be nice/fair. What happened to you?
Ok. That's fair. And I apologize if I come off a bit miffed. I'm sure you understand that I, as a Christian, get plenty tired of this stuff. I also understand your stance on the matter. While science does indicate there's such things as evolution etc. What science also does is frequently overlook certain obvious factors where Christ is concerned. The Pharisee's called him a fraud and phony. Yet, where's all the ancient text that says different? We are missing the ancient text that proves Christ was nut and a phony. Certainly in times such as those, with so many skeptics running around, I'd wonder where's the monumental amount books of denial? Giving what we have to work with(currently), the Christian stance has been; Jesus was a liar lunatic, or Lord. Even Islam recognizes Christ, but they call him a prophet.
I realize of course that current sci publications rarely if ever publish articles on Christ and the Holy Father. However, there are a number of qualified archeologist and scientist who are believers. Some not. But they are working on sites in the holy land as we speak. Some are close to proving many Biblical things that have been under fire for decades.
The Bible eludes to the idea that we are close to the end times. That when we see times such as these, with the masses of nay sayers and doubters. World crisis situations and plagues, we're close. The Bible as we know it also points out prophecy fulfilled, and keeps trudging along. Once science gets past the idea the "Bible" is little more than a great literary work, and actually digs into the idea it might be real and there's something more to be told, then I guess we'll keep having these debates.
Now back to your statement. If you don't believe and continually deny, then of course you would never experience what grabs more people world wide than there are scientist to debate it. God is pretty clear on it, you don't believe in me, you deny me, you mock me, then I will happily deny you as well.
I am not blind. I often ponder how does He work? Whats the science behind all of this? But when I keep getting the things I ask for, and miracles dropped in my lap, then what am I suppose to say? I'm one of 100's of millions like me, and I am suppose to say what? This is the best coincidence anyone ever saw? I'll be honest, and I hope you respect this. I was raised Christian. Nothing much fancy ever happened in my life Until I did one thing. I finally told the Boss, ok I admit it, I suck as a human being, and I want to change. YOUR will not mine. Poof, it was like magic. All sorts of things started to change for me, even tho I myself had done nothing different except to change my outlook and submit to Him. When you take your crown off and lay it at the feet Jesus in complete humility, things change, and it's nothing short of a miracle. Trust me. This why so many are overtaken by faith in Christ and end up like me. I need no science, it's all too clear for me now.