those who reject the word of god will burn in hell
- Thread starter spookz
- Start date
You are right, no you shouldn't bow, although I don't think you have a choice. So hell, if you don't bow, there is a hot iron bar that can make your neck bow automatically.
I know, this is stupid hypothetical crap, but view it that way, god is not tormenting you at all now, yet he have all the capability to torment you and do with you much much more. But he's not, he is leaving you alone to experience life for yourself, how do you feel about such a creator that is so good at giving respite?
Do you like to abuse respite and mock it and tell god you don't exist just because you're giving me a chance....Are you stupid enough to aggravate god just because he is giving you a chance.
Horseman42
Registered Senior Member
It would seam to me that this God is not as divinely good as everyone makes him out to be if he has to torcher his creations in such fashion.
One might also ask why does God desire such praise so badly? Some have said before a perfect being does not desire anything at all.
If riverwind was to bow what would that mean? Surely it wouldn't be sincere if it was simply to remove the agony of torcher.
river-wind
Valued Senior Member
very good questions.
Am I in a period of respite? maybe. I have joy, so I would say yes. I have suffering, so I would say no. Overall, people seem to suffer more thant they have joy - those who suffer more in relation to the average often tend to have a better attitude towards life. IMO because if they didn't choose that better attitude, they would break, fail utterly.
My Dad agrees with you. He thinks we don't see miricles as much these days because God is a true Father, raising us as his children. There was a period (todler-age) where he ruled with an iron fist, told us what to do, and what not to do. Gave us rules to live by. Then as we as people aged (adolescent, teenager), he showed love, allowed us to make mistakes, and forgave us for them. We have now, as a human race, passed out of adolesence, and into adulthood. he has stepped back, and is allowing us to live fully. our suffering is caused by our own stupidity, but we have the chance to learn from our mistakes.
I think this makes sense. however, nowhere in there does the idea of eternal damnnation fit in. So when people spout the "you'll burn in hell!" thing, it doesn't make sense to me. if God loves infinantly, why would he allow uneducational torment? If Satan was cast out of Heaven, why would God provide him with souls to torment? It doesn't make sense based on the premiss of the Judeo-christina-muslim religeons.
river-wind
Valued Senior Member
why are we helpless? aren't we made in God's image? can't we war and kill? live, die, create and destroy? Do you mean we are helpless in comperison to God himself, who can do everything?
I like your father, he's a smart man.
You are right, people should never spout the "you'll burn in hell". Simply because it doesn't sound just sincere or even justifiable when it come out of people mouth. Heaven and hell standards belong to god and when god makes his decision, it'll be just, mercifull, compassionate, and it will make sense to you then.
God forbid, riverwind, if you made the pure beautifull soul that god gave you disfunctional and dirty with your own hands, then god have designed you to send yourself to hell. If you lost your soul, then how could you find your way. If you trained your compass to point south instead of the north it was designed to point to, then your compass is a failed compass, and it will fail you at the end when you need it. On the other hand, if you have protected what gave you and tried to make it even purer, then you'll know it and you'll accept heaven for a reward. A person with a condemned soul would not recognize heaven even if he/she wanted to go to heaven, hell is the only place that would make sense to them.
My father tell me that hell is not a place were people are sent at the whim of god, it's a place that people earn and get closer to with every action, so is heaven.
river-wind
Valued Senior Member
beautiful words.
I hope that if I have a soul, helping others and attempting to assist people in their growth is what is needed to keep it pure. I do fear a little bit that by helping others escape suffering, I am preventing them from learning the lessons which God put in place for them to learn.
However, I cannot stop myself, it pains me too much to see other people suffering. I hope God forgives me, if he exsists, and I am in fact messing things up. 'Cause I ain't gonna change, unless I suddenly come to understand the whole plan. That's part of why I get so worked up over the much of what the Church does. I am an foolish idiot, and I can even see the bad alot of what it does creates. Maybe I'm wrong, but those in the church doing these things can't seem to explain how.
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riverwind,
I'm so happy, Iwould cry. I bet you all others are puking at this.
Riverwind is to worry about riverwind. Do good for others so as to do good for riverwind. The object of your affection and improvement is riverwind and because of that you can love and do well to others, but first love riverwind.
Don't loose focus in your attempt to help others and forget about yourself. If you're not on the right tract, then how do you expect to show others the way. That's why if the only thing you can do is to put yourself in the right tract, then that's good enough.
As far as the church, I'm a muslim, and I really don't go to a religious establishment, but if a friend invited me to church to hear their son sing or whatever, I will go and I will support them. I just think that the church is not the path that I need to take in life.
I believe that our souls knows the right from wrong and right path in this life is straight and narrow. Remember from geometry that a straight line is shortest path to connect two points and the shortest path is the steepest path. The wrong path is comfortable and winding.
I'm so happy, Iwould cry. I bet you all others are puking at this.
Riverwind is to worry about riverwind. Do good for others so as to do good for riverwind. The object of your affection and improvement is riverwind and because of that you can love and do well to others, but first love riverwind.
Don't loose focus in your attempt to help others and forget about yourself. If you're not on the right tract, then how do you expect to show others the way. That's why if the only thing you can do is to put yourself in the right tract, then that's good enough.
As far as the church, I'm a muslim, and I really don't go to a religious establishment, but if a friend invited me to church to hear their son sing or whatever, I will go and I will support them. I just think that the church is not the path that I need to take in life.
I believe that our souls knows the right from wrong and right path in this life is straight and narrow. Remember from geometry that a straight line is shortest path to connect two points and the shortest path is the steepest path. The wrong path is comfortable and winding.
river-wind
Valued Senior Member
Flores, I wish you luck.
T
the sage
Guest
okay... okay okay okay okay enough.
i didn't read through all of the posts here because i am lazy (god gave me the right to be lazy so don't be upset)
beliefs are great yada yada yada but hear me out:
my post is about leadership, it's about being a good leader.
what are some qualities we attribute to them? independent, strong willed, mindful, caring, understanding, compassionate, they are there for us and answer all of our questions, help us when we are down, don't mind if we don't agree with them on everything because of how understanding they are right? listen to us, and tell their followers that there is nothing wrong with opinions and that there is nothing wrong with people that are different.. that is just what they are different.. not bad or good, better off or worse off... right or wrong.. just different.
i read all of this stuff about god punishing, condemning, being vengeful, that we should worship him and agree to everything he says and wants because of his "powers", especially that he was the one that created and therefore he can take away what he has given.. that if we don't worship we will be sinners and go to hell. now christians and all who believe in the god i am referring to please hear me,
would you take these from your leader? these qualities i mean, these actions, this type of reasoning? where in this world have we seen these qualities your god is displaying? look at a leader such as buddha, who flat out describes how we should not believe him just because of what he says but that we should investigate the truth for ourselves.
since when was a good leadership quality "instill fear among your followers"? i would never follow a leader i feared, rather one that i respected. since when is a leader's word final? don't we even vote in america? oh right.. hitler.. what he said went.. that didn't turn out too good no? and since when is a good leadership quality revenge as opposed to understanding and acceptance. "god is vengeful and powerful and has the power to send you to hell"? a good leader is like a good father or mother.. one that loves without any judgement (important word here), or any conditions. if you had a son who converted to a different religion would you condemn him to a life of... well.. hell? or would you try to understand him, be compassionate and let him know that it was alright.. that you loved him no matter what.. and that you aren't the one that makes his decisions for him, or makes him follow a set of rules he doesn't believe in.. but rather you encourage his journey and the knowledge he is gaining...
but then again everything i said could be wrong right? and god is understanding? as long as your praise him. god is compassionate. as long as you believe in him. god doesn't tell you that you have to believe in his writings, he gave you free will.. but use the free will to believe in another religion or not believe in him and you will go to hell for eternity.. yes...
everything is just dandy.
have a nice day.
i didn't read through all of the posts here because i am lazy (god gave me the right to be lazy so don't be upset)
beliefs are great yada yada yada but hear me out:
my post is about leadership, it's about being a good leader.
what are some qualities we attribute to them? independent, strong willed, mindful, caring, understanding, compassionate, they are there for us and answer all of our questions, help us when we are down, don't mind if we don't agree with them on everything because of how understanding they are right? listen to us, and tell their followers that there is nothing wrong with opinions and that there is nothing wrong with people that are different.. that is just what they are different.. not bad or good, better off or worse off... right or wrong.. just different.
i read all of this stuff about god punishing, condemning, being vengeful, that we should worship him and agree to everything he says and wants because of his "powers", especially that he was the one that created and therefore he can take away what he has given.. that if we don't worship we will be sinners and go to hell. now christians and all who believe in the god i am referring to please hear me,
would you take these from your leader? these qualities i mean, these actions, this type of reasoning? where in this world have we seen these qualities your god is displaying? look at a leader such as buddha, who flat out describes how we should not believe him just because of what he says but that we should investigate the truth for ourselves.
since when was a good leadership quality "instill fear among your followers"? i would never follow a leader i feared, rather one that i respected. since when is a leader's word final? don't we even vote in america? oh right.. hitler.. what he said went.. that didn't turn out too good no? and since when is a good leadership quality revenge as opposed to understanding and acceptance. "god is vengeful and powerful and has the power to send you to hell"? a good leader is like a good father or mother.. one that loves without any judgement (important word here), or any conditions. if you had a son who converted to a different religion would you condemn him to a life of... well.. hell? or would you try to understand him, be compassionate and let him know that it was alright.. that you loved him no matter what.. and that you aren't the one that makes his decisions for him, or makes him follow a set of rules he doesn't believe in.. but rather you encourage his journey and the knowledge he is gaining...
but then again everything i said could be wrong right? and god is understanding? as long as your praise him. god is compassionate. as long as you believe in him. god doesn't tell you that you have to believe in his writings, he gave you free will.. but use the free will to believe in another religion or not believe in him and you will go to hell for eternity.. yes...
everything is just dandy.
have a nice day.
I don't know about this. One day, we might be the helpless creators who trusts, submits, and persevere to our own creations: Computer AI.
It would be fun to imagine an Earth where the rulers are robots and machines and no trace of human, and all these happened before the 2nd comming.
Spookz, you sound like David Koresh. I believe you did more harm than good by your lack of tact in aprroaching this. I am a Christian, and am offended that you would preach a message of abomination rather than a message of love. God doesn't just exist to torcher those who don't believe in him, but thats what you make it sound like, and thats retarded. Half of the problem in the social perception of Christianity is that Chrisitanity is perceived by others through the actions of fallable men rather than through God. You are not helping.
T
the sage
Guest
he isn't too off though.. you are right though that the christians and not "god" himself creates many of the stereotypes or views of modern christianity.. but if we were even to disregard all of the people's beliefs like spookz.. we could simply flip through the pages of the bible and discover the same message... with different wording of course.. that god is vengeful and is willing to harm those who do not embrace him.. can't really change that.. unless somehow god decides to change the bible and say "i respect all other religions and the free will i gave you i will not punish you for using"
Yes, I agree... the messages of abomination ARE there in the bible, but would you be more prone to hearing the entire message if you were told about love, or if you were told how bad of a person you are and that you are going to be torchered for all eternity. Not every Christian is a negative one, and I disregard anyone who puts themselves on a pedestal simply because they believe a certain way. Humilty, love, and being brotherly should be discussed here, instead of arrogance, ignorance, and maliciousness.
T
the sage
Guest
well yes.. and no..
you see my point is not what i am more prone to hearing.. it is what is actually there.. like you said, the messages of abomination ARE there... meaning the vengeful-side and condemning of other religions and non acceptance that is taught to christians is there... i rest my case.