This should probably be in the physics section but.......

Enmos said:
Huh ? Like what ?

What I meant with that smiley was that LG won't make you look like a fool.
But thanks for your opinion :bugeye:
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Well at least I have been established in this thread...
Let's see. Sorry. And my opinion means jack shit. I think some of your things are wonderful. My words are sometimes loaded (with a gun) hint hint so,
Let's find out if LG can dismiss some of the physical basis for gods existence.

Me personally I don't think it is possible for him to do so; there is no existence outside of the individual; he is trying to prove electrons and things which cannot possibly be shown to exist if a person is about to die from the universe itself (the ultimate example.).

It's just sort of like refuting theists. It is sort of fun when I actually make at least a relevant or valid point towards theism haha :D

But no, I'm theist myself, although my beliefs are that God does not exist outside of this universe. If you and I enmos want to discuss. It is impossible.
 
Enmos said:
If God exists, he can't exist outside the universe. Although I realize you use an unconventional definition of universe, a wrong one in my opinion but that aside.


Why ?
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Well, I think LG is saying that he could exist outside the universe--- that and most theists make the claim. And yes, although my unconventional meaning of the term universe, still, holds.

Reason:
The universe is something that is what is within Gods reach. If God were outside the universe, then this would involve taking the physical basis outside the individual in question. This would be totally dismissive of any appropriate discussion relating to anything having to do with any form of God. When church people make the gosapel, they are using the universe; not the outside of the universe.

Now, if they realized the opposite it would be a funny thing now wouldn't it :D
 
lightgigantic said:
I think a lot of these fears can be addressed by good association (or perhaps a preamble to that would be to first know what good association is) - In otherwords if you can see the practical example of someone who is not these things, one can develop the proper determination
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This seems reasonable.
I have been working on trying to come up with a set of guidelines on how to recognize good association for a couple of years now, actually.
Guidelines for how someone who does not have much wisdom or goodness could recognize who would be good to associate with and who wouldn't.
 
Pete said:
I don't see how that leads to demonstrating that "something" exists with a physical basis with very predictable behaviour?
From experience, I suggest that it leads to demonstrating that "something" exists with a psychological basis with somewhat predictable behavior, and that the "something" is to do with the nature of the human mind rather than external factors.

How would you suggest using these practices to investigate the properties of God, and can you be sure that such investigations are objective and reliable?

What would you say to someone who, after spending years engaged in those activities, finds them to be mostly dissatisfying meaningless rituals, with occasional gems of useful social values?
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The desire to get to know something is very important. But along the way, things can happen with this desire that make acting on it unsuccessful.

In Buddhism, they speak of desire being overly sluggish or overly active, inwardly restricted or outwardly scattered (link):

And how is desire overly sluggish? Whatever desire is accompanied by laziness, conjoined with laziness, that is called overly sluggish desire.

And how is desire overly active? Whatever desire is accompanied by restlessness, conjoined with restlessness, that is called overly active desire.

And how is desire inwardly restricted? Whatever desire is accompanied by sloth & drowsiness, conjoined with sloth & drowsiness, that is called inwardly restricted desire.

And how is desire outwardly scattered? Whatever desire is stirred up by the five strings of sensuality, outwardly dispersed & dissipated, that is called outwardly scattered desire.
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I think this frequently happens to our desire to get to know something.
 
lightgigantic said:
well suppose we were discussing whether there is a physical basis to the existence of electrons

How do you suppose such a discussion would progress?
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Would progress with the fact that outside of the universe there is nothing therefore no requirement in this universe.

Therefore leave it alone.
 
ok. So God is a something, and cannot exist within a theoretical nothing, which you call "outside the universe"? I'd like to point out that our knowledge of the universe is that it is finite, and God is theoretically infinite... presents a paradox. Like trying to fit the ocean into a gallon jug.
 
you know you referred me here from philosophy, right? I'm trying to see your point, but it seems too broad at the moment...
 
God doesn't exist outside.
To do so is to reflect the death of thousands.
Do not consider creating an idea which will then release from our world.
 
Those three statements seem to be individually absurd and not relative to each other... Spoonfeed me, if you have to, because this doesn't want to click for me...
 
sisyphus__ said:
There is a physical basis to the existence of God.
Refute/Discuss
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Depends on one conception of deity. The gods I believe in have to bend to the laws of physics in order to affect physical reality in this universe.
Though obviously not necessarily the same physics apply in other universes, so the manifested effects of their abilities obviously vary.
 
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Nothing like making assertions about the necessary qualities of an entirely imaginary being.
 
swarm said:
Nothing like making assertions about the necessary qualities of an entirely imaginary being.
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Rubbish.

(as disease would say!)
You're just confusing my intent with this thread- actually, you're stooping worse... You're claiming that I'm making statements about an imaginary being. Which is rubbish. I'm not claiming anything about an imaginary being. I'm claiming that the qualities of God must exist within this universe. And no one knows what god is yet.... besides.. just a few people......
 
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