Welcome to the club !
Third of Muslim Students Back Religious Killings
- Thread starter OilIsMastery
- Start date
Welcome to the club !
Wikipedia is edited by morons.
Oh so that makes terrorism ok then. What about the half of the links that did mention Al Qaeda?
Al Qaeda or another terrorist group, what's the difference?
The quoted material was sourced to Jane's, which is definitely NOT written by morons. I would definitely be inclined to believe them over the Bush administration on something like this, especially since the Bush administration already has a track record of lying about Iraq.
Don't be a smart-ass. You know I wasn't suggesting this.
Again, they were from dubious sources. If you have any links from legitimate news outlets about al qaeda being in Iraq before the war, I would be interested to see them.
Wikipedia?
The wikipedia article cited Jane's defense weekly. As was already explained. Try to keep up.
Jane's is no less dubious than the links I provided. Matter of fact, many of the people I quoted with respect to Al Qaeda have also been quoted in Jane's.
I'd like to know the percentage of people whom were polled were from Pakistan or their parents were from Pakistan and then see what the numbers say. Turkish are different from Indonesian are different from Indian are different from Iranian people - even if they all do hold various forms of a "Muslim" faith. Quite frankly, some Muslims are more liberal minded than others.
Very true. We have a lot of muslims in my department, and the ones from Turkey and Indonesia are all very moderate. The ones from Iran and Saudi Arabia, on the other hand...
No it cannot be justified. That remains with the sociopaths and psychopaths of Islamic fanatic leaders. Do you honestly believe any god would justify these innocent killings? That question was rhetorical.
There is no defence principle, but rather the dogma of man takes up such a cult in the name of a god, whilst being blind to the fact that any god in any religion shows compassion, which humans themselves show infinite ignorance.
DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
He didn't mention innocents, he was referring to war and occupation. This is part of the problem. People who do not understand others try to put inferences in others' statements.
The OP also makes this error. He is trying to justify his hate-filled views as can be seen from his previous posts.
Don't fall into the dishonest propaganda. You should ask a poster to elaborate before jumping to unfair accusations.
If someone comes to your house and kills an innocent family member, then I say killing in self-defense is justified. This is what Islam teaches. If you want to argue then get your facts straight.
This is where I simply think it's not a smart idea to teach such things.
An example of a fundamental flaw - the God who says such advice is a simpleton.
An enlightened and well thought out God or Goddess understands that a person will automatically fight to protect their family, regardless of beleif, including to kill the aggressor. This simply goes without saying. It's a biological imperative. All people everywhere act as such instinctively. As such there is absolutely NO reason to but it in a Holy Book. An enlightened God(s)/Goddess(s)/Philosopher understands that this as an attribute of humanity.
It would instead be much better to appeal to humanity's ideals of peace in said Holy Book without EVER putting a statement that can be (and is) used to kill other humans.
Why?
Because some dick-face then says "this is the house of Islam" and we must kill Baha'i or Sunni or Hindu or Shia or Jews or Gays or whomever because bla bla .. blah blah blah ... BLA BLA and sure enough THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS - some people are happy to KILL other people because for some people it's simply in their nature.
An enlightened sentient being would never put such a justification of killing statement in a Holy Book - that is, unless, they intended to eventually use it to motive their people to kill some other people.
M
An example of a fundamental flaw - the God who says such advice is a simpleton.
An enlightened and well thought out God or Goddess understands that a person will automatically fight to protect their family, regardless of beleif, including to kill the aggressor. This simply goes without saying. It's a biological imperative. All people everywhere act as such instinctively. As such there is absolutely NO reason to but it in a Holy Book. An enlightened God(s)/Goddess(s)/Philosopher understands that this as an attribute of humanity.
It would instead be much better to appeal to humanity's ideals of peace in said Holy Book without EVER putting a statement that can be (and is) used to kill other humans.
Why?
Because some dick-face then says "this is the house of Islam" and we must kill Baha'i or Sunni or Hindu or Shia or Jews or Gays or whomever because bla bla .. blah blah blah ... BLA BLA and sure enough THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS - some people are happy to KILL other people because for some people it's simply in their nature.
An enlightened sentient being would never put such a justification of killing statement in a Holy Book - that is, unless, they intended to eventually use it to motive their people to kill some other people.
M
DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
Wrong. There is a need for dealing with warfare in religion, because in reality warfare exists.
In reality, people who are oppressed deserve the right to defend themselves. Warfare is not an unnecessary topic, but it is needed to be discussed as it deals with the experience of human beings.
Any religion or anyone who states that religion should not deal with issues that matter most to people and that affect their lives is completely devoid of reality.
Islam does not give anyone a blanket right to kill innocent people for any reason, read the scriptures before you spread lies.
In reality, people who are oppressed deserve the right to defend themselves. Warfare is not an unnecessary topic, but it is needed to be discussed as it deals with the experience of human beings.
Any religion or anyone who states that religion should not deal with issues that matter most to people and that affect their lives is completely devoid of reality.
Islam does not give anyone a blanket right to kill innocent people for any reason, read the scriptures before you spread lies.
Well, that's your opinion.
Mine is that never has any civilization ever not defended itself. It's simply not true that a religion NEEDS to discuss military affairs. It doesn't need to because people will defend themselves regardless of what some guy in a funny robe is telling them.
As for the "you spread lies" - what "lies" am I spreading? I'm giving my opinion, that's not a "lie" it's simply my opinion. I persoanlly think that speaking of when it's OK with God to murder another human and when it's not OK with God to murder another human and when God actually smiles devilishly when one human murders another human is, frankly, asinine and moronic.
Ask those Muslims who murdered all those innocent people in the name of Islam the other day or the day before that or the day before that or or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that or the day before that
.... repeat ad nauseum.
As they say, the proof is in the pudding, the Qur'anic entanglement pudding CAN and IS used to justify murder. We both must agree that this is a FACT.
DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
People justify their crimes in a variety of methods. Religion is just one of them.
You will find many, many people who promote peace, love, and understanding in the name of Islam as well.
When criminals base this on religion, it does not in anyway reduce the message of the religion.
People do great things in the name of Capitalism and evil things in the name of Capitalism.
People do great things in the name of Communism and evil things in the name of Communism.
People do great things in the name of Socialism and evil things in the name of Socialism.
People do great things in the name of Christianity and evil things in the name of Christianity.
People do great things in the name of Islam and evil things in the name of Islam.
You will find many, many people who promote peace, love, and understanding in the name of Islam as well.
When criminals base this on religion, it does not in anyway reduce the message of the religion.
People do great things in the name of Capitalism and evil things in the name of Capitalism.
People do great things in the name of Communism and evil things in the name of Communism.
People do great things in the name of Socialism and evil things in the name of Socialism.
People do great things in the name of Christianity and evil things in the name of Christianity.
People do great things in the name of Islam and evil things in the name of Islam.
Americans wholeheartedly supported an attack on Iraq and Afghanistan, although neither country killed a single American in the US. NATO countries have sent troops to kill people in Iraq and Afghanistan as a sign of their solidarity with freedom of expression by imposing their value systems through force. These are the same countries that have gone through two world wars and a holocaust and have been exploiting the third world economy for profit. Clearly they all back religious killings.
To complain that Muslims in any capacity think that attacking people because of their religion is wrong and should be defended against is WRONG is just further information on how twisted their philosophy has become. Its like saying, I only killed the man whose country I invaded by force because he was armed and wanted to kill me. Duh! What did you expect? A garland of posies?
To complain that Muslims in any capacity think that attacking people because of their religion is wrong and should be defended against is WRONG is just further information on how twisted their philosophy has become. Its like saying, I only killed the man whose country I invaded by force because he was armed and wanted to kill me. Duh! What did you expect? A garland of posies?
DiamondHearts
Registered Senior Member
Yes, thank you Sam, This needs to be said. Afghanis and Iraqis who are dying in these occupations are innocents.
Yes. This conflict is not only confined to the Muslim world, it is in Latin America, South Asia, East Asia, Eastern Europe, and Continental Africa. Third world solidarity against these aggressive wars can openly be seen from our brothers and sisters suffering under the same plight worldwide.
Yes, where is the condemnation of the Capitalist invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq?
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That may be true of Iraq but is in principle false about Afghanistan. The Taliban would not cooperate with the US to capture Osama Bin Laden. This made the country complicit in 9/11 and fair game to go to war with.
DH, where did I say "Islam" gives the blanket right to kill innocent people.
HuH?
Well?!?!
Where???
I did not state that anywhere.
You have just misrepresented my writings. I didn't even insinuate such a thing. Then you have the audacity to write a deceptive reply suggesting that I did and then to top it off you go on to tear down your own strawman!
PLEASE....
I specifically said that the justification of murder in a religous book is an asinine concept and IMO it is asinine. Only an unenlightened being would write such an asinine thing. Perhaps such a failure of intellectual conception could arise from an illiterate desert God - but never from an educated God.
Anyway, once again, the reason why is because regardless of weather it is stated in a book or not, people in society will ALWAYS defend themselves by whatever means necessary. It's would much be better to say NEVER muder a fellow human and so that those that are inclined to murder will can never use a religous book to justify the murder of other people in the NAME OF GOD.
Starting to get it now?
Michael
NOTE:
RE "real world activities" does your religous book comment on how a man and woman can orgasm together? Because that's an important "real life activity". I'm just curious.
Lets not try to ad hoc explain away such a idiotic propositions such as religous justifiable murder of human beings. It was written there because the people who wrote the religous book wanted a reason to motive their following to murder other people. Zoroastrian Persians were murdered in their own capitol using just such a justification. So lets not try to make up bull shit ...OK?
Actually, the fact that even now, you can not grasp such a concept only leads me to believe that your religous teachings are actually reducing your ability to grasp such high minded concepts. One could say you are being dumbed down. Which is fine, I see the same thing happen to people who religiously watch FOX News on a daily bases - which is probably about equal to or greater than your own religous activities. They're also pretty dumbed down.