Think with your own mind instead?

W

water

the sea
Registered Senior Member
It is often said that religionists are not thinking with their own mind. That instead of thinking for themselves, they rather follow some "already established" beliefs.

In opposition to that, what does it mean to "think with your own mind", or "to think for yourself" mean when it comes to religion and God?
 
I would think that even if you follow an established religion, that you would still be making a decision and thus "thinking with your own mind" about following that religion.

I guess to think for yourself when it comes to God or religion, is to make up your own path and go done it. I disagree with the logic, but maybe that is what it means.

Personally, if I wanted to play basketball, I wouldn't have a raquetball coach teach me, unless he doubled as a b-ball coach. If the path has already been laid to a point, why start over.
 
I think that for the most part, the majority of religious people follow the rules that were written and in doing so, may not take into account the whole picture. When people say, "think with your own mind" they really want you to use logic, and common sense and apply it to your everyday life.

For instance, it says in the Bible that God will provide for you. Many Christians put a lot of faith in that, and wait for God to help them when they have lost a job. Instead of working hard to find a job, they sit back and wait for the job to come to them, in the meantime accepting unemployment and welfare assuming that it is God providing for them. I know one couple that is currently living off of the Church because they refuse to try and get a job at McDonald's or the local grocery store because God hasn't given them a sign to do so. It lacks logic, and common sense. But faith in God, and that God will provide for them enables their thought process to ignore the practical.

It also has to do with human empathy toward one another. Most religions condemn homosexuality, because it is written in the Bible. However, they don't understand the suffering and misery of the Christian who finds himself attracted to other men. Instead, they attempt to force him into Heterosexuality because it is what God would have wanted. Barring any suffering that the man might go through, and the wife who ends up suffering by his side unloved and unwanted, they are following God's rules. Common sense and logic would tell us that suffering without cause is inhumane and unfair, the religious don't see it as such because of their belief.

Or the 9 year old in South America, who was impregnated by a relative who was sexually abusing her. Because of the governments close Catholic ties, they forced the little girl to bear a child at the young age of just nine. When the baby was stillborn, two months premature because the girls body was not mature enough to handle childbirth, and the 9 year old nearly died from hemorrhaging, where was the common sense and logic there? She can also have no other children because the growth of her uterus at such a small age ripped it right down the middle. Common sense and empathy would compel a normal human being with a conscience and a heart, to stop the suffering as soon as it was discovered. To abort the foetus before any more suffering continued. Instead, they refused to understand the plight of the little girl and substituted God's word instead.

When most people ask religious people to think for themselves, what they are asking is to understand that the world 5000-2000 years ago, was not the same world as we have today. They want you to understand that just as God knew man was fallible, the men who translated the texts and wrote the texts were likewise fallible. It's not that they don't want you to find God or live with God, but that you think about what the impact of your personal covenant is, and whether or not it's morally and ethically right despite what is stated in the Holy Book.
 
Kotoko I can only agree with Q an excellent well thought out piece.
 
Kotoko said:
For instance, it says in the Bible that God will provide for you. Many Christians put a lot of faith in that, and wait for God to help them when they have lost a job. Instead of working hard to find a job, they sit back and wait for the job to come to them, in the meantime accepting unemployment and welfare assuming that it is God providing for them. I know one couple that is currently living off of the Church because they refuse to try and get a job at McDonald's or the local grocery store because God hasn't given them a sign to do so. It lacks logic, and common sense. But faith in God, and that God will provide for them enables their thought process to ignore the practical.

It also has to do with human empathy toward one another. Most religions condemn homosexuality, because it is written in the Bible. However, they don't understand the suffering and misery of the Christian who finds himself attracted to other men. Instead, they attempt to force him into Heterosexuality because it is what God would have wanted. Barring any suffering that the man might go through, and the wife who ends up suffering by his side unloved and unwanted, they are following God's rules. Common sense and logic would tell us that suffering without cause is inhumane and unfair, the religious don't see it as such because of their belief.

Or the 9 year old in South America, who was impregnated by a relative who was sexually abusing her. Because of the governments close Catholic ties, they forced the little girl to bear a child at the young age of just nine. When the baby was stillborn, two months premature because the girls body was not mature enough to handle childbirth, and the 9 year old nearly died from hemorrhaging, where was the common sense and logic there? She can also have no other children because the growth of her uterus at such a small age ripped it right down the middle. Common sense and empathy would compel a normal human being with a conscience and a heart, to stop the suffering as soon as it was discovered. To abort the foetus before any more suffering continued. Instead, they refused to understand the plight of the little girl and substituted God's word instead.
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Such people are superstitious then, not religious.
 
religion is supernatural hokum, as is god, superstition and religion are closet buddies, of the same egg.
if your religious you have faith in a god, (Faith: The body of dogma of a religion.
Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. ) where as (superstition: An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome. A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.)
these are both complete illogical. it would have been more intelligent for you to say that such people are irrational, and full of religious superstitions.
 
water said:
what does it mean to "think with your own mind", or "to think for yourself" mean when it comes to religion and God?
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dont ask me, think with your own mind instead.
 
I'd say were it not for superstition, religion would not be pervasive at all.
 
Not superstition as much as dogma.

Meaning the belief in things that are contrary to the the facts at hand. Most religions are riddled with it. Which is why people say, "think for yourself" meaning to take a look at things logically and with the facts presented without allowing the words of a Holy book written thousands of years ago to cloud your judgement.
 
Actually the established beliefs of western culture have become secular: practical atheism, relativism, and consummerism, even paganism and witchcraft.

HELLO????????!!!!!!!! TIME TO WAKE UP FOLKS, we are not in the 18th century any more.

If you doubt me, take a look at what they are teaching in elementary and highschools, as well as colleges and universities, where the mainstream of godless modernist thought like EVOLUTIONISM is indoctrinated into your mind as a youth.

The Christian goes against these trends and indoctrinations. He learns to think for himself.
 
Kotoko said:
Not superstition as much as dogma.

Meaning the belief in things that are contrary to the the facts at hand. Most religions are riddled with it. Which is why people say, "think for yourself" meaning to take a look at things logically and with the facts presented without allowing the words of a Holy book written thousands of years ago to cloud your judgement.
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I agree with your conclusions about dogma. This was the problem Jesus had with the Pharisees. Their dogmatic fervour caused them to put "religion" above God. They would insist that people bring the proper sacrifices even when they could not afford it, and thereby ruin them. They payed close attention to the words, but not to the intention of the words. Because of this Jesus said:
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." (Matthew 23:23)​
You also mention people not working because they say "God will provide". That's just an excuse not to use what God has already provided: their two hands. Not just do they not think for themselves, they think only of themselves. When Paul encountered this in Thessalonia, he wrote to them:
"In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat." (2 Thess. 3:6-12)​
Just like the law, religion does not automatically keep people from committing stupidities or being negligent. The intent of the law is that people keep it foremost their mind while they live so that everyone would benefit from it, and the same with religion. But the strictness of laws don't determine how people will follow or disobey them, and who gets hurt, and that's the real issue.
 
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Lawdog said:
HELLO????????!!!!!!!! TIME TO WAKE UP FOLKS, we are not in the 18th century any more.

If you doubt me, take a look at what they are teaching in elementary and highschools, as well as colleges and universities, where the mainstream of godless modernist thought like EVOLUTIONISM is indoctrinated into your mind as a youth.

The Christian goes against these trends and indoctrinations. He learns to think for himself.
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While we are not in the 18th century, the beliefs and ideologies of certain religions (eg Catholicism) were carried forth and continue unchanged from much earlier than that.

You may think that you go against the 'trends and indoctrinations' but in reality you do not. The doctrines that plague your religion have not moved forward, nor does it allow you to do so. You do not go against the trend. If you look at the battle being waged in the US at the moment in regards to even allowing evolution to be a part of the school curriculum, you'd see that Christianity holds the trend and science must go against and sadly it has become a losing battle in many schools. Some children will not be even given the choice to think or decide for themselves.

You do not learn to think for yourself as a free individual. You learn to think for yourself within the mindset of your particular religious beliefs. You refuse to even consider anything else because it does not fall within the framework of what your religion has deemed acceptable.
 
Kotoko said:
Not superstition as much as dogma.

Meaning the belief in things that are contrary to the the facts at hand. Most religions are riddled with it. Which is why people say, "think for yourself" meaning to take a look at things logically and with the facts presented without allowing the words of a Holy book written thousands of years ago to cloud your judgement.
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What is dogma but supersticious answers to questions that either have none, or are answered in a manner you reject?
 
Superstition is a fear based on a teaching. Dogma is a blind faith in something that has been proven to be false by fact or science. While superstition will cause a reaction to a certain set of circumstances, it is dogma that compels people to ignore what is in front of their face and fall back on a set of rules to make their decisions, regardless of how flawed those rules may or may not be.
 
You're using the term dogma incorrectly as far as I know. Perhaps it has an alternate definition I'm unfamiliar with.

Dogma is the message.

For instance, if I ponder and issue, come up with an answer and tell you... then decide that my message is truth and I will relentlessly promote it as such, the message is dogma. If the material is unquestionable it's dogma. But dogma is the message itself, not the faith to believe it. The faith created the dogma.
 
It is impossible to think with your own mind. Mind is not your own creation, but inherited from all who went before you. Only when we reject culture and beliefs can we realize our full potential as individual human beings. You are capable of greater things than thinking. The body has it's own natural intelligence.
 
the problem that religion presents to us today, with regard to thinking for oursleves, is the provision of answers. if we have answers to our questions then we no longer need to think about the subject. when the answers to the most pertinent questions that will stimulate human thought are conveniently available in one comprehensive almighty bible then man has had all his thinking done for him.

asking someone to think for themselves is like asking them to step outside the cultural blinkers and take a look at the world without the presupplied answers.
[edit]to hopefully discover something[/edit]
 
dog·ma
n., pl. -mas or -ma·ta

1. A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church.
2. An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true. See synonyms at doctrine.
3. A principle or belief or a group of them: “The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present” (Abraham Lincoln).

So we are really splitting hairs. It's a bit of both.
 
Lawdog: Actually the established beliefs of western culture have become secular: practical atheism, relativism, and consummerism, even paganism and witchcraft.

HELLO????????!!!!!!!! TIME TO WAKE UP FOLKS, we are not in the 18th century any more.

If you doubt me, take a look at what they are teaching in elementary and highschools, as well as colleges and universities, where the mainstream of godless modernist thought like EVOLUTIONISM is indoctrinated into your mind as a youth.

The Christian goes against these trends and indoctrinations. He learns to think for himself.
*************
M*W: Christians are brainwashed and can't think, they just follow other sheeple to the slaughter.
 
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