There is 'meaning and purpose to life'

Re: ?????????

Originally posted by Banshee
You bet she is a woman, and a good woman, tell me otherwise......but with reason, for I believe in her more then in that bible-god of yours.

It is the Love you all have to believe in, Love. For that is the Cosmos, Love.
No cruel god, no heaven, no hell.
The Cosmos, our homefront, Love....
:)
Click to expand...


Good lookin' out, banshee.

Now let's stick our thumbs in their eyes. Just kiddin'.
 
Yeah, that is the tricky part.
If you claim to be not violent, you may not put your thumbs in their eyes.
But sometimes......
I think of more torture then only the thumbs for them.
So narrow-minded people
You can not talk to them without being quoted, or them quoting that bible.

Don't Sir Loone and Tony have to say things from themselves.
Can't they think for themselves any more?
Do they only think in bible quotes?
Even when they are alone?
Or do they safe it all for us?
Please, tell us something from yourselves, made up in your own mind.
You put the quotes aside for a moment and give us something good.
Something from you yourselves.
Please?
Thank you.
:confused:
 
Here is the bible quote.

Micah 5:2

"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans[2] of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins[3] are from of old, from ancient times.[4] "

This is why I ask if you happen to be from Bethlehem. Therefore, according to the bible you are a false prophet. Perhaps in your own religion you are a messiah.

I wouldn't have said anything if it didn't seem like you were trying to say you were the Messiah prophesied in the Bible. The bible to my knowledge clearly shows otherwise. Why would you claim to be someone prophesied in the bible and not even believe the bible?

If someone says they are the Messiah we should question them and see if they fit the prophesies. To my knowledge Jesus did and provided signs. We are not to follow someone blindly. So Banshee I would have to disagree that we should follow someone blindly.

Bebelina, I believe the bible are holy books. You may have other books you think are holy and it is your right to believe them as it is mine to believe in the bible. I hope you have noticed that I have been respecting your beliefs while saying you do not fit into mine. Respecting does not mean believing.

People interpret the bible differently because they ignore verses. When they ignore verses they can distort the meaning of other verses to what they want. In other words they have their own agenda. I would like to know how you interpret the verse I have quoted for you.

Banshee, what does gender have to do with anything? I don't know if there are any prophesies concerning the gender of the Messiah but if the bible specifically said that the Messiah would be female then I wouldn't believe Jesus and I wouldn't care if the Messiah is female, why should I?

Why do you see God as hateful. It was His love that has brought many out of sin. If He hated us why would He send a Saviour?
 
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Deadwood, something went wrong between our communication.
I don't blindley follow any one.
It was more to make Sir Loone and Tony see that it could be Bebelina as it could be any other, who any body will choose to his/her Messiah.

Make with me no mistake!!
I follow no body blindley, I do not believe, I listen to the theory's with the most high probability chance. I guess now you do not understand me any more. It is so difficult to explain in english. I hope you understand what I mean. If not, then say so, I will try to explain as good as I can. Let me know if you do not understand, please.

Gender makes no difference with me, but I only hear talking about god and jezus as 'he', so that is why I said it could easily be a woman too.

I do not follow any believe in god or jezus or what so ever named god.
I believe in the Cosmos, that is no believe, it is only reality.
Open your eyes.
It is Life.....
 
Interpretation

Originally posted by Deadwood
Here is the bible quote.

Micah 5:2

"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans[2] of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins[3] are from of old, from ancient times.[4] "


I will try my best to interpret...:D

First I need answers to some question, if you can give them?

What is Betlehem Ephratah?
What are the clans of Judah?
What is Israel, is it the actual country or does the word Israel have a meaning?

Especially the last question is of great interest. :)

But then I must also say that maybe there will come a prophet that will be localized in just Israel too. Because according to my beliefs there can be many. The world needs as many as possible.

So the Bible might just speak of that one, because the Bible is very locally oriented just around that area. I bet Sweden is NEVER mentioned even...:D
Click to expand...
 
Re: Tony!

*Originally posted by Bebelina
I´m very glad to see that you are back and alive. I got a bit worried there for a while.

Big hug*

Thanks.

*Originally posted by Banshee
It is really good to 'talk' to you again......... *

I wasn't anywhere near NYC on the 11th.
But, thanks.

*Til later, try to be like Bebelina and let people be who they are.*

You mean, from Andromeda?
Sorry, I'm from Earth.
As soon as you find out who you are, I'll let you be as you are.
In the meantime, I'll assist you in your search.

*Originally posted by Patman
What if it is just an epic story misinterpreted by man? Is that so far out of the realm of possibilities?*

Actually, it is right in the middle of the realm of possibilities.
Have you considered that you yourself might have entirely misinterpreted the Bible?

*You offer nothing because eternal life is not yours to give.*

If I'd said, "I offer eternal life," and stopped there, I could agree with your point.
I added "through Jesus Christ," because that is the only way you get eternal life.

*Originally posted by Stryderunknown
I never said what I thought it meant, in truth I know it says "Knowledge is Power", Odd how you can draw a conclusion that I didn't know it's meaning, perhaps it's because you lacked the required background check.*

Maybe, but you think Science is how you get knowledge.

*Anyway were was he when the first humanoids roamed the planet and acted as hunter gathers???*

Perhaps, he just wasn't in the Fiction section of the library at the time.

*they managed to survive without his help, or gods help!*

Fictional characters survive by dint of their authors' efforts, anyway.

*As for "In the beginning God created heaven and earth", was that 1AD per chance, or the first week of 0 AD?*

Neither.
It was "in the beginning."

*And if we were originally made in his image, then Darwin proved he's a monkey, or perhaps he's a monkeys uncle. *

Darwin has been pretty much discredited, and not by Christians, either.

*My point is you say your God was the maker of the beginning of the universe, but where is your evidence?*

1. Written testimony.
2. The universe.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
(Genesis 1:1, KJV)

The opposing side is free to oppose both points.
I look forward to the presentation of evidence that the universe does not exist.

*By the way what latin I quote, has been pulled from websites, I can't speak in tongues*

It must be difficult for you not being able to speak English, which is but one tongue out of many.

*Originally posted by Teri 2
Stop bible bashing us. You too Tony. *

Hi, how are you?
BTW, what are you doing in the Religion forum?

*I'm sick to death of hearing that Jesus died for our sins.*

Having a bad day?

*Originally posted by DEVILDOG
Tony1 yes there is an Earth, that is fact and can be proven. That god created it is not a fact and cannot be proven.*

At least we agree that there is a piece of evidence in existence.

We have a written statement that says God did it.
The evidence agrees with the statement.

We have a bunch of people claiming it is not true.
Provide your evidence if it is not true.

*Originally posted by Teg
Notice how his arguments are backed by a sort of 'because I say so'- reasoning.*

Yours differ how?

*Originally posted by Sir. Loone
I stand on the "Solid Rock" of the truth of God's Holy Word!*

You can jump and shout loud because of your solid footing.
The others can't, because of the soft sand they're standing on.

*Originally posted by Teg
If you want to find a goal behind life's games, only one comes to mind: survival. If the Bible has a better one, then I would like to know. *

The Bible doesn't have such minimalist goals.
The Bible provides for life, and that abundantly.
That is way past survival.

...I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
(John 10:10, KJV).

*Originally posted by Bebelina
Maybe that "no other messiah" rule only applied to men, have you checked the bible about that?

Yes.

*Originally posted by Banshee
Who, Sir Loone, are you to tell her that she is not. *

While I can't speak for Sir. Loone, I suspect that he has read the following...

And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
(Luke 21:8, KJV).

Christ is Greek for the Hebrew "Messiah."

*Originally posted by Bebelina
It is really funny how worried and angry the Christian fanatics become when you challange their beliefs.*

We're challenging yours.

*what makes you so sure that the Bible contains the most truthful truth? *

Because the most truthful truths are different from less truthful truths as well as from outright false truths.

*Originally posted by Banshee
Can't they think for themselves any more?*

Why don't you give us an example of what it is like to think for yourself?

*I listen to the theory's with the most high probability chance.*

That is your mistake.
If there are 5 million lottery tickets sold, and only one can be a winner, then the highest probability is that no one ticket will win.
But you would be wrong.

*Originally posted by Bebelina
What is Israel, is it the actual country or does the word Israel have a meaning?

Especially the last question is of great interest.*

Israel means something.

...For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(Romans 9:6, KJV).

Israel is not localized.
 
Okay Tony1,

I created the Universe.
Click to expand...

That is written evidence and a testimony, and the universe exists, must mean I created it.

That's using your logic to say that your god that didn't exist until Your Messiah came into existance, So that means the whole of evolution, and all those civilizations that stood a longer testiment to time than your religion and civilization has even existed for.

Infact people existed all over the planet before your Messiah was even a twinkle in his own eye (since hes erm... one in the same and all that jazz)

Perhaps Your god is kicking around in the fiction section of a bookshop, (Buying Gibson books)
I know you don't hold to fond for Science, but thats probably down to you losing a loved one from something science couldn't save them from. Well we might not be as advanced as we like now, but we are striving to be, rather than dawdling on the past and sucking up to superstition.

I know there are many people the quote many textures all claiming each others are false, in my understanding the only truth is what you as an individual follows not that of a path created by some long out of dead deity.

I know you complain of my use of greek myth and legend, but even the supposed son(Hercules) of a god(Zues) defied him, for his reason was he was following his own path, and you know what children are like when they get to their rebelious stage.
In truth though the stories explain of his tortureous path, and the reason for why he did the tasks he did, Probably just to have his father be proud of him for what he had accomplished on his own.

No twists of words like the Oracle of Delphi but the scriptures and stories from playwrights and philosophers alike.

Oh yeah, I forget they didn't really exist because that was before your god, along with the abacus, from which the computer has evolved.... aRgh!! we don't exist from your statement.
 
Your welcome!

Ok,so you now also agree to being a FANATIC Christian, this is great progress Tony, you are really gaining some valuable personal insights here...:D

What is a false truth? :confused:

If I have interpreted that Bible quote correctly..:confused: then Israel is NOT located?
Does anybody know what the word Israel means? I get the feeling that being "Israel" has less to do with the location than the state of mind? Is being "Israel" a state of the soul perhaps?


 
Tony1

*Originally posted by Tony1
Yours differ how?*

Support, pure support. Information and decisions. Find the facts and present them. Of course you can look up all my positions, but I doubt you will find much difference. It's called the power of multiple resources: as long as you rely upon varied sources rather than a single book, your arguments are inherently stronger.

**Originally posted by Teg
If you want to find a goal behind life's games, only one comes to mind: survival. If the Bible has a better one, then I would like to know. *
The Bible doesn't have such minimalist goals.
The Bible provides for life, and that abundantly.
That is way past survival.*

How can I argue with that? The book is full of paper to make great fires from. We can in turn use those fires to cook our food.

*Darwin has been pretty much discredited, and not by Christians, either. *

Wow, now you are just telling lies. Please explain how and when he was discredited. Either I and 5 billion other people missed this or you are very convoluted. Have you bothered to read his works. From what I can tell from the book in front of me: The Origin of Species, everything is still true. Variation Under Domestication, Variation Under Nature, Struggle For Existance, on up through the Sexual Selection in Relation to Man and Conclusion. Before you attack something you should at least read it prior to speaking. I have read what I can bare of your book, so you are without a leg to stand on. I know you'll make some comeback about how you would rather not or you have and don't agree with what it says. Regardless I think that I can divine your end position: fear. You are affraid of what lies out there in the Universe. You do not want unknowns, because they terrify you. I will let you in on a little secret: those unknowns frighten everyone. Some of us have more sane ways of coping with irrational fears, though.
 
Teg,
Perhaps Tony1 is the missing link, you know the missing link that nobody oculd find because "God created it" :p

Seriously, I can see these arguements continuing on for as long as the Greek civilization existed during it's empire stage, although it and Egypt exist today, infact just add that on the end.

Tony1 keeps mention his beginning (circa 70AD) While his universe(Monoverse) was being... erm... well how should we say... a sparkle in his gods eye, the rest of the known multiverse was busy Evolving :D

Of course his religion dictates that evolution was kickstarted after a bit of genetic creation, like creating some guy named Adam
and then taking a rib from him just to make a woman called Eve, and the real strange thing about this... they would be related, clones and they act incestious. Infact in previous explainations I noted that if some reads Genesis and works out the amount of Generations that were supposed to of occured from the first two people, then they would all be imbred. Which means there would most definitely be a number of mutations and possibilities of particular abnormalities, like Infertility.

Infact theirs a whole possibility that the whole evolution of such imbreeding would result in them dieing out (Look at the Cheeta population)

Of course I'm sure Tony1 or someone else will mention the reference on the outlawing of incest, But since everyone was related anyway, how could you outlaw it??? you'd all have to stop and well, then there would be no continuation of any ancestors. So that too is flawed. (This doesn't mean If I was stuck somewhere I would get it on with my sister, I think that would call for some drastic action like... diving from a great height into a dry bottomless pit.)

Perhaps that should be an experiment, sealing two people up and see how life evolves... oops.. looks like I did that one too Tony1.
 
Tony my friend, I speak for myself.
Always.
Unlike you.

You were not in the neighbourhood of the WTC.
Of course not.
You were sitting behind your computer and quoting your bible.
Question.
May you have a computer from your god??
Is that mentioned in your bible??

Where is the exact location of Israel allowing to the bible??
You are made after gods likeness??
Man, am I glad I am not.
I was made after a better likeness, my own.
You are nothing more than materialized energy from the Cosmos.
Like we all are.
I do not explain.
To much energy spend on a person not worth it, sorry.
I tried to tell you for so many times.
This day I will not.
Be happy Tony, be happy with your bible in your hand and wait...
 
To Toni1

Hello to you Tony1,

Thank you for your reply, I'm fine thanks. I hope you are the same.

Q. What am I doing in the religion forum?
A. I could hear all this shouting from the other threads and had to come and have a look at what all the fuss is about. As it turns out, its a topic that will never be agreed upon so I have given up.
Don't fret, I may stop in again. :D

BTW, Yes, I think I was having a bad day....... :)

LOL
TERI
 
What is Betlehem Ephratah?
What are the clans of Judah?
What is Israel, is it the actual country or does the word Israel have a meaning?
Click to expand...

When interpreting you must always look at the context something is written in. Israel can mean the geographical location and can also mean God's people. In this context I believe it is speaking of Israel as a geographical location as it is Bethlehem, which is a city in Israel still in existance today.

About Judah. There was once just one Israel consisting of 12 Tribes. Each descended from a guy called Jacobs twelve sons. I can't remember exactly why but I think it was two tribes became Judah. I think it was because of King Solomons disobedience and worship of other gods. So you have Judah and Israel. But today they is one Israel united. I'm not too knowlegable on the split but if I am wrong anyone can feel free to correct me.
 
A Jewish word???....
Or so???...
It sounds that way.
Yes, tell us, I want to know either, please.
Thank you
:)
 
But what is Ephratah then?
Click to expand...

This could be two things (I'm trying to give you both sides so not to sound bias, since interpreting is not about putting in bias its about finding the truth).

Some say that Bethlehem Epharatheth refers to a man and his mother since the bible does speak of a man named Bethlehem with a mother called Ephrapheth. So the passage might be saying that the Messiah would be born from their decsendents.

The second thing it could be reffering to is this. There are two cities called Bethlehem. One located in Judah which in ancient times was called, you guessed it, Ephrapheth. And the other was located in the North(north Judah or Israel I'm not sure). So perhaps Micah was reffering to the city Bethlehem located in the Southern part of Judah.

But this website can explain both sides better than me. Biased towards the latter but it'll show you why.

http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/micah_bethlehem.htm
 
Re: Re: Tony!

Originally posted by tony1
At least we agree that there is a piece of evidence in existence.

We have a written statement that says God did it.
The evidence agrees with the statement.

We have a bunch of people claiming it is not true.
Provide your evidence if it is not true.
Click to expand...
Yeah, o.k.
Your written statements=BIBLE
Your evidence=FAITH

Our written statements=Every evolutionary document
Our proof=SCIENCE

Originally posted by tony1
Because the most truthful truths are different from less truthful truths as well as from outright false truths.
Click to expand...
Ummmmm, English next time.
Oh, You mean like the difference between a Bold-Faced Lie, a Lie, and a White Lie, right?
 
*Originally posted by Stryderunknown
That is written evidence and a testimony, and the universe exists, must mean I created it.*

Cute, but you're not old enough.

*I know you don't hold to fond for Science, but thats probably down to you losing a loved one from something science couldn't save them from.*

No. It's just that Science jumps to such ridiculously stupid conclusions.

*aRgh!! we don't exist from your statement. *

There's one now.

*Originally posted by Bebelina
What is a false truth?*

Presumably, it would be the opposite of the most truthful truth, which you mentioned.

*Is being "Israel" a state of the soul perhaps? *

Perhaps.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(Hebrews 8:10, KJV).

Israel is those people who have the laws of God in their mind and hearts and who belong to God.

*Originally posted by Teg
Support, pure support. Information and decisions. Find the facts and present them. Of course you can look up all my positions, but I doubt you will find much difference. It's called the power of multiple resources: as long as you rely upon varied sources rather than a single book, your arguments are inherently stronger. *

I was afraid you'd say that.
That means that you are all wrong together.
Your arguments, rather than being "because I said so" arguments, are "because he said so" arguments.

*Wow, now you are just telling lies. Please explain how and when he was discredited. Either I and 5 billion other people missed this or you are very convoluted. *

Five billion people have it figured out, so that leaves you being pretty close to the only one still believing in evolution.
Mind you, you do have some company on this MB.

How he was discredited is traceable to the fact that he was really, really, really counting on transitional fossils to back his theory.
Since none have been found...

When he was discredited was 1859, when he wrote his book.

*From what I can tell from the book in front of me: The Origin of Species, everything is still true.*

So, where are those transitional fossils?

You are affraid of what lies out there in the Universe. You do not want unknowns, because they terrify you. I will let you in on a little secret: those unknowns frighten everyone.*

Well, they frighten you, at least.

*Some of us have more sane ways of coping with irrational fears, though.*

Like believing in insane theories which can't possibly be true?

*Originally posted by Stryderunknown
Infact in previous explainations I noted that if some reads Genesis and works out the amount of Generations that were supposed to of occured from the first two people, then they would all be imbred. Which means there would most definitely be a number of mutations and possibilities of particular abnormalities, like Infertility. *

Same problem with evolution.
Unless you are planning to propose a variation on the theory where man evolved to almost identical appearance at different times, places and under differing evolutionary pressures.

That would be a new twist.
That would require some new scientific discoveries, too.
Up until now, "Science" has claimed that man has evolved from whatever (unspecified in the scientific literature).

You are apparently claiming that multiple instances of man evolved all over the place at different times and places, as well as for different reasons, but with almost identical DNA.
Where would your evidence be for that?

*Originally posted by Banshee
I speak for myself. *

I can tell, by the fact that it is purely demonic nonsense.

*I was made after a better likeness, my own.*

Since you didn't exist until after you existed, your likeness before you existed was nothing.

And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
(Luke 13:32, KJV).

*Originally posted by Teri 2
As it turns out, its a topic that will never be agreed upon so I have given up. *

It will be agreed upon.

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
(Romans 14:11, KJV).

*Originally posted by DEVILDOG
Our written statements=Every evolutionary document
Our proof=SCIENCE*

I knew you'd say that.
Therefore, you have no proof.
You obviously have not read any of those "evolutionary documents."
If you had, you wouldn't have said what you said.
 
Tony, I do not read your long, boring posts any more.
I will look what you have to babble about against me.

So we all exist from materialized energy, I look after the projection the energy materializes which the energy makes up from my Deeper Self and the kind of life I have to live.
I think you do not understand a word of it.
That is because you only can read bibles, than you do not understand what the Cosmos say's.

I think it is difficult to understand because I can't write it down exactly in good english. I hope that others then Tony do understand.
If not, please say so, don't throw with mud immediately.
That is Tony's part.

And Tony, no, I am not channeling a demon.
But if you want so, I will be a demon to you.
In your head, because in my head is no demon.
Only you see demons.
Evil is made up by humankind.
Humans, praying to gods and so afraid for evil demons.
Where did this start Tony, this fear for demons.
Demons do not exist.
Only in your mind.
Wake up, wake up Tony.
By the way, why don't you dare to say where you live???
Are you a coward?
:p :p :p
 
*Originally posted by Tony1
So, where are those transitional fossils?*

No transitional fossil records?!?!? What do you call homo-erectus? We have scores of fossils that show the backbone of our ancestry. To deny evolution is to deny the existence of man.

*I was afraid you'd say that.
That means that you are all wrong together.
Your arguments, rather than being "because I said so" arguments, are "because he said so" arguments.*

I say it again, if ten people were witnesses then you might be more willing to accept their story over the story of one person. We also have observational data pertaining to amongst other things, fossil records. If these are lies, then everything is a lie and thus your book has less weight. I am sorry if the truth scares you.

*Five billion people have it figured out, so that leaves you being pretty close to the only one still believing in evolution.
Mind you, you do have some company on this MB.
How he was discredited is traceable to the fact that he was really, really, really counting on transitional fossils to back his theory. Since none have been found... When he was discredited was 1859, when he wrote his book.*

There are also fringe groups that say that we have yet to go into space. We give them just as much validity as those who would deny the existence of man. You can't ignore history. As for the company I keep, well pretty much every school and scientific institution outside the bible belt. You are in the minority.
 
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