Theists must be the ones to provide proof, not atheists

N

Nebula

Occasionally Frequent
Registered Senior Member
It's really starting to bother me that people don't understand this concept.

How many would agree that the following is a fair portrayal of a theist vs. atheist:

Theist: God exists.
Atheist: Prove to me that God exists.
Theist: I don't need to, you need to prove to me that God doesn't exist.

Theists CANNOT do this.

You cannot ask someone to disprove something like this. Let's say the argument was about the existence of fuzzy pink elephants (FPE)...theists, do you believe that FPEs exist? Why or why not?

If someone made the claim that FPE did exist, you would ask them to prove it, would you not?

If they replied "prove that FPE DON'T exist," would you conclude, therefore, that since FPE cannot be disproved, they must exist?

No one can disprove the existence of FPE any more than they can disprove the existence of GOD. So, theists, logic says you MUST believe in FPE.

Theists are setting forth a claim; they MUST have reasons for believing in God, which is what atheists want to hear...

Atheists merely reject theists claims; therefore, all an atheist has to do is discredit the theists argument, they don't need to provide proof as to why God doesn't exist. Discrediting a theists claim is "proof" enough.

Does anyone else see this flaw in the theistic argument?
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BTW, don't assume that I'd an atheist, I would say I'm agnostic..see below for definitions :D

Theist: There is no valid reason for believing FPE do not exist. Therefore, FPE exist.

Atheist: There is no valid reason for believing FPE exist. Therefore, FPE do not exist.

Agnostic: There is no valid reason for believing FPE exist. However this doesn't mean FPE don't exist. It means that while it is possible that FPE exist, we should doubt their existence until a valid reason to do otherwise is given.
 
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Nebula

Atheist: Prove to me that God exists.
Theist: I don't need to, you need to prove to me that God doesn't exist.

I understand where you're going with this but I think you might want to add in as the first line:

Theist: God exists.
 
Indisputable, indubious proof that was realized by logical means.

I'm willing to accept any type of valid evidence :). As soon as theists provide a valid reason, I'll believe! :D
 
"Discrediting a theists claim is "proof" enough."
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I have yet to have ANY evidence supporting the existence of God or the validity of the Bible 'proved' wrong by anyone, especially an atheist. The opinions of a non-believer do not classify as 'proof', nor does the subjective commentaries used to satisfy their presuppositions negate the existence of God.

I generally do not attempt to prove or disprove negatives. However, for the sake of discussion, can you present historically accurate, archaeologically consistent, non-biblical evidence that said fuzzy pink elephant exists or existed? Are there hundreds of documented eyewitnesses to this fuzzy pink elephant, who upon testifying to said fuzzy pink elephant's existence, know or knew that their testimonies would result in their beheading? Can said fuzzy pink elephant offer eternal life? Walk on water? Heal the sick? Raise the dead? Are there witnesses to these miracles, accurately recorded in historically accurate documents? BTW, why are all of the poor analogies that atheists use (fuzzy pink elephants, invisible pink unicorns, etc.) pink in color? Does this have to do with atheist's sexual orientations? ;-)

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I have yet to have ANY evidence supporting the existence of God or the validity of the Bible 'proved' wrong by anyone, especially an atheist.
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What evidence is there for god that atheists have yet to disprove? Name some. Show us some.
 
I generally do not attempt to prove or disprove negatives. However, for the sake of discussion, can you present historically accurate, archaeologically consistent, non-biblical evidence that said fuzzy pink elephant exists or existed? Are there hundreds of documented eyewitnesses to this fuzzy pink elephant, who upon testifying to said fuzzy pink elephant's existence, know or knew that their testimonies would result in their beheading? Can said fuzzy pink elephant offer eternal life? Walk on water? Heal the sick? Raise the dead? Are there witnesses to these miracles, accurately recorded in historically accurate documents?
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For one thing, your argument would be a lot more convincing if you cut out the sarcasm. Secondly. what you have in here can be considered the START of proving your case. But this is were theists always fall short...

"historical proof of biblical events"

Don't TELL me there is historical proof, SHOW ME DAMMIT!!!
 
"What evidence is there for god that atheists have yet to disprove? Name some. Show us some."
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Sure. Biblical or non-biblical? The Archo Volume is a 245 page book that contains letters between Pilate and Caesar; Valleus's notes to Pilate about the arrest trial and crucifixion of Jesus; Gamaliel's interviews with Joseph and Mary, and others about Jesus; Jonathan's interviews with some Bethlehem shepherds; and more. All of these are NON-BIBLICAL documents which testify about the existence of Jesus. Let me list the table of contents.

Chapter 1) How these records were discovered.
Chapter 2) A short sketch of the Talmuds.
Chapter 3) Constantine's letter in regard to having fifty copies of the Scriptures written and bound.
Chapter 4) Jonathan's interview with Bethlehem shepherds; letter of Melker, Priest of the Synagogue at Bethlehem.
Chapter 5) Gamaliel's interview with Joseph and Mary and others concerning Jesus.
Chapter 6) Report of Caiaphas to the Sanhedrin concerning the execution of Jesus.
Chapter 7) Report of Caiaphas to the Sanhedrin concerning the resurrection of Jesus.
Chapter 8) Pilate's report to Caesar of the arrest, trial, and crucifixion of Jesus.
Chapter 9) Herod's defense before the Roman Senate in regard to the execution of John the Baptist.
Chapter 10) Herod's defense before the Roman Senate in regard to his conduct at Bethlehem [Archo pg 1-245].

How does an atheist explain away evidence that is submitted by SECULAR scientists and archaeologists? I am sure your presuppositions will show you how.

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Inspector

Chapter 5) Gamaliel's interview with Joseph and Mary and others concerning Jesus.

I often thought that if this were to happen in modern times, the interviewer would be Geraldo Rivera.
 
Atheists must be the ones to provide proof, not theists

It's really starting to bother me that people don't understand this concept.

How many would agree that the following is a fair portrayal of a theist vs. atheist:

Atheist: God is a myth.
Theist: Prove to me that God is a myth.
Atheist: I don't need to, you need to prove to me that God does exist.

ATHEISTS CHILDREN, YOU MADE A CLAIM, SO PROVE YOUR CLAIM...WE MADE THE CLAIM, AND WE WILL PROVE OUR CLAIM, AND WE HAVE TONS OF EVIDENCE...
 
Originally posted by Nebula

You cannot ask someone to disprove something like this. Let's say the argument was about the existence of fuzzy pink elephants (FPE)...theists, do you believe that FPEs exist? Why or why not?
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A CLAIM CAN BE PROVE FAKE BY LACK OF EVIDENCE. I DDIDNT MAKE A CLAIM OF TOOTHFAIRY, GIANT PURPLE SQUIDMONKEY, ETC. BUT FOR THOSE WHO MADE THE CLAIM THE BURDEN OF PROOF LIES ON THEM...



Originally posted by Nebula


If someone made the claim that FPE did exist, you would ask them to prove it, would you not?
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OF COURSE, THERE ARE TONS OF EVIDENCE FOR THE CLAIM OF GOD, ZERO FOR TOOTHFAIRY, GIANT PURPLE SQUID MONKEY, AND ATHEISM...

Originally posted by Nebula

If they replied "prove that FPE DON'T exist," would you conclude, therefore, that since FPE cannot be disproved, they must exist?
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AGAIN A CLAIM IS PROVEN FAKE BY LACK OF EVIDENCE...


Originally posted by Nebula

No one can disprove the existence of FPE any more than they can disprove the existence of GOD. So, theists, logic says you MUST believe in FPE.
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STUPID, THERE IS NO CONVICTION IN FUZZY PINK ELEPHANTS, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE ON IT, THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC DOCUMENTEARY ON IT, NO CONVICTION, NO TESTIMONIES, NOTHING! A CLAIM CAN BE PROVEN FAKE BY LACK OF EVIDENCE..
THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE FOR ATHEISM AND TOOTHFAIRY AND FUZZYPINK ELEPHANTS..

TONS OF EVIDENCE SUPPORTS GOD...
 
All this time I have debated with atheists, I came to the conclusion that atheist are far MORE brainwashed than christians...

First...they consider to be "Skeptic" and only accept claims with evidence, yet claims God is a myth when the fact is no evidence supports their claim..."Skeptism" and "Atheism" donot mix...but they will insist they are skeptics...

Second...They claim to be very scientific, when the only thing they can say to disprove God is "Prove to me Giant purple Squid monkey dont exist'. THATS THE BEST ATTACK THEY CAN SAY AGAINST CHRISTIANITY, we didnt even make that claim but put those words in our mouth, in an attempt to make a fool of the truth. IS THAT A SCIENTIFIC METHOD? NO...But they insist that they know more about science...

Third...They said they dont have faith, but only believe in FACTS. Evolution isnt a fact, big bang theory isnt a fact, but both are THEORIES, so believing them is FAITH..But they will deny it...AND SAY THEY ARE FACTS, INDEED THIS GUY'S DO HAVE FAITH BUT ARE IN DENIAL...

In summary, they are deluded..........and thats a FACT..............
 
How many would agree that the following is a fair portrayal of a theist vs. atheist:

Atheist: God is a myth.
Theist: Prove to me that God is a myth.
Atheist: I don't need to, you need to prove to me that God does exist.

Your ability to recognize the obvious is ridiculously lacking. Why would an atheist make such a statement in the first place ? :rolleyes:
 
STUPID, THERE IS NO CONVICTION IN FUZZY PINK ELEPHANTS, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE ON IT, THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC DOCUMENTEARY ON IT, NO CONVICTION, NO TESTIMONIES, NOTHING! A CLAIM CAN BE PROVEN FAKE BY LACK OF EVIDENCE.. TONS OF EVIDENCE SUPPORTS GOD...
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You are a dumbass. I'm asking you to provide this evidence.
 
Nice Motive

You are a dumbass
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Good show, Nebula. We see your true reasons shine through.

:rolleyes:

In the meantime, which God are you addressing?

--Tiassa :cool:
 
Originally posted by inspector
The Archo Volume...
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Inspector, are you going to spew this bullshit reply in every thread you post in?

Very well... here is my standard reply:

First of all the Archko volume is not archaeological evidence, it is a work written by Rev. Mahan a Missouri minister. Mahan supposedly researched thousands of volumes in Rome and Constantinople in a span of two months with only two assistants in 1883. A 'trip' for which there is no corroborating evidence for not to mention the amount of labor they supposedly completed in such a brief span. The chief librarian in St. Sophia in Constantinople had no recollection of Mahan nor his assistants nor any of the manuscripts that Mahan supposedly consulted. Mahan claimed to have conversed with a Vatican librarian, Father Freelinhusen, in Rome... however, Rome has no record of a Father Freelinhusen at all. In fact, no corroboration indicates Mahan traveled any further than Rome Illinois from where he sent his correspondence. Additionally, it has been noted that several pages copied verbatim from Ben Hur... of course after the plagiarized passages were noted they were removed from subsequent printings.

Hardly, what I would deem a reliable source.

Here's a nice little critique:
http://www.answers.org/Bible/archko.html

~Raithere
 
"Inspector, are you going to spew this bullshit reply in every thread you post in?"
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Yep. I will continue to offer archaeological evidence supporting the validity of the Bible. BTW, check your facts because they are wrong. The evidences I will offer are taken from reputable, SECULAR, archaeologically oriented sources.


THE MOABITE STONE
"Now Mesha king of Moab was a sheep breeder; and he had to deliver annually to the king of Israel a hundred thousand lambs, and the wool of a hundred thousand rams. But when Ahab died, the king of Moab rebelled against the king of Israel' (II Kings 3:4-5.)

The Moabite Stone was found in 1868. Commissioned by king Mesha himself, it reveals in detail how he rebelled against the new king of Israel, even naming him! (Omir). Once again we have exact confirmation of a biblical event and occurrence, not by an Israelite or Prophet, but an enemy!

HEZEKIAH'S TUNNEL (2 Kings 20:20)
"As for the other events of Hezekiah's reign, all his achievements and how he made the pool and the tunnel by which he brought water into the city, are they not written in the book of the annals of the kings of Judah.'

In 1880 an inscription was found in an underground water conduit beneath the old city of Jerusalem. The inscription, dated to the year 702 b.c. and written in Old Hebrew (Canaanite) confirms the construction of the tunnel was ordered by Hezekiah, and also records minute details of how the tunnel was engineered.


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