theists are more selfish than atheists.

Sarkus said:
And this would be the same omniscient, omnipotent creator deity that knew what we would do before he created us, and so knew which ones would be a "bunch of dicks" before he created them?

Wow.

Nice.
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With free will, he wouldn't have known, would he?
 
Enmos said:
Hm ok we have a different view on things i guess. To me it is pointless as it is now. I think there would be no harm in 'losing the mystery' because God showed himself.
Also, i think it would do a lot of good to humanity. Wars would no longer be fought and people would actually work on the environment etc.
As improbable as it may be, an existing God (and one that shows himself on top of that) would be a good thing for humanity and the world in general. In my opnion at least.
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but the mystery would be gone, life is not pointless now because we have got shit to uncover, philosophy to ponder, science to advance in, exploration to take place, and entertainment to give.

if god is watching us dont you think he wants somethign decent going on?, instead of a bunch of guys standing around saying "we know everything so why bother"


peace.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
but the mystery would be gone, life is not pointless now because we have got shit to uncover, philosophy to ponder, science to advance in, exploration to take place, and entertainment to give.

if god is watching us dont you think he wants somethign decent going on?, instead of a bunch of guys standing around saying "we know everything so why bother"


peace.
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No i mean life on a cosmic scale not personal lives. Everybody makes his own 'meaning of life'.
The perfect God i envision is a visible one that dont wants us to worship him but instead guides us where we could make a big errors (not on a personal level) and wants nothing in return.
That doesnt mean we will know everything.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
many atheists are good to people, because they believe they only have one life to live. so make others happy for that short time, i also thik the same thing. if we only live once without an afterlife then being nice to people and getting along is important to me. because i dotn want to make peoples short existence any worse than it is. its a sad concept to behold, if we only live once then we better make life great for those around us while we can. there will be no punishment or reward from a higher force, but the reward is the joy others feel.


ofcourse im not an atheist or a theist, but i can see from both points of veiw, im an agnostic daoist. i dont know if there is reward or not. personaly i have not got the ability to know the truth. so is tand in the middle but i want happiness and peace for us all.


peace.
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I don't really know ANY atheists who preach peace and goodness, they just want to live life without religion influencing them, live life the way they desire, many atheists are good people however, but they're not good because of atheism, they're good because of the environment they live in and psychological factors, just as with most people...
 
VitalOne said:
I don't really know ANY atheists who preach peace and goodness, they just want to live life without religion influencing them, live life the way they desire, many atheists are good people however, but they're not good because of atheism, they're good because of the environment they live in and psychological factors, just as with most people...
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So why are you good ? Because of who you are or because of what you believe in ?
Btw. i consider myself a good person with good morals.
 
Enmos said:
No i mean life on a cosmic scale not personal lives. Everybody makes his own 'meaning of life'.
The perfect God i envision is a visible one that dont wants us to worship him but instead guides us where we could make a big errors (not on a personal level) and wants nothing in return.
That doesnt mean we will know everything.
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i imagine god to have a good sense of humour, and also like entertainment. we wouldent know everything, but we would know the greatest mystery and driving force for all science and philosophy, wich would mean philosophy and science would be hit hard and most likely die out.


peace.
 
VitalOne said:
I don't really know ANY atheists who preach peace and goodness, they just want to live life without religion influencing them, live life the way they desire, many atheists are good people however, but they're not good because of atheism, they're good because of the environment they live in and psychological factors, just as with most people...
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i agree that atheist alone does not make you a good person. i know atheists who are utterly selfish and rude peole who are always depressed and low. but im saying theists in general seem to do good in fear of punishment and for rewards.

wich is not truley good.

peace.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
i imagine god to have a good sense of humour, and also like entertainment. we wouldent know everything, but we would know the greatest mystery and driving force for all science and philosophy, wich would mean philosophy and science would be hit hard and most likely die out.


peace.
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I guess im too much of an atheist... lol
I actually meant a God that just showed up, so didnt create anything ever. :shrug:
Nevermind :p
 
Enmos said:
So why are you good ? Because of who you are or because of what you believe in ?
Btw. i consider myself a good person with good morals.
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Most people are good because of psychological factors and their environment...I don't think it's a good habit to constantly see things in terms of good and bad, if you destroy all these insecurities and defiling impulses then you will have the highest enjoyment, freedom, happiness, etc...and naturally be good, but not because you're thinking "I should be a good person" but because it's your natural nature, for instance even a seemingly mean and unkind person becomes nice when something good happens to them and they're happy...

It's just like Krishna says:
"One who has transcended material good and evil automatically acts in accordance with religious injunctions and avoids forbidden activities. The self-realized person does this spontaneously, like an innocent child, and not because he is thinking in terms of material good and evil" (SB 11.7.11)
 
Enmos said:
You have the same kind of people that are theist only they cant expose themselves that easily. For instance the priests that molest little kids... :mad:
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I dunno, if you look at it another way, those priests that molested little kids CAN expose themselves pretty easily.
:roflmao:

One Raven said:
God showed up, told them what to do and how to live, and they still rejected him
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IIRC, according to the bible, God showed himself to all of four people:
-Noah
-Moses
-Abraham
-Lot

Chi said:
yeah i have said this all along, if god were to exist he would respect the agnostic and atheist mentality more than radical religious type. especially the people who fight wars in his name, he must think "what a bunch of dicks".
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I couldn't agree more

nobody respects a sheep, most people respect the lion. and if we were created by a god, doesent anybody think that he would want us to be free thinkers? who try to figure out the universe and explore it?. not sit down and worship him and stay in the dark ages?
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Yep. I've thought about this before a'plenty. Why would a benevolent deity wave damnation of hell over his creations' heads to force them to worship him. That to me does NOT seem like the characteristic of a benevolent deity.

to me its logical that god would respect people who were nice to others because they think its best, not because they fear the wrath of god and his hellfire.
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As Medicine Woman so eloquently put it in the past: some people are delusional.
 
VitalOne said:
I don't think it's a good habit to constantly see things in terms of good and bad...
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I dont.

VitalOne said:
...if you destroy all these insecurities and defiling impulses then you will have the highest enjoyment, freedom, happiness, etc...and naturally be good, but not because you're thinking "I should be a good person" but because it's your natural nature...
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Im not perfect but i consider myself reasonably 'good'. Im doing my best to be a good person.

VitalOne said:
...for instance even a seemingly mean and unkind person becomes nice when something good happens to them and they're happy...
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Ofcourse, its human nature. The subconscience idea is that other people want to make him happy more if he will be nice then. This is no point of argument as far as im concerned.

VitalOne said:
It's just like Krishna says:
"One who has transcended material good and evil automatically acts in accordance with religious injunctions and avoids forbidden activities. The self-realized person does this spontaneously, like an innocent child, and not because he is thinking in terms of material good and evil" (SB 11.7.11)
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I cant say anything about that. I have insufficient knowledge about what Krishna teaches.
 
In response to this original post, I've argued (and still do) that in at least the Christian religion; it is the self that is worshiped at the heart of the beliefs; claiming to be worshiping God, although it produces some genuine emotions and passions, is merely a very deceptive guise.

And VitalOne, certainly we could find examples of atheists like how you describe them, but we could also do the same for Christians who justify every wrongdoing by reasoning, "God will forgive me anyway." The point is, both of these representations are extremes and it is highly stereotypical and erroneous to assume all fall into these ends of the spectrum.
 
Well, everyone is ultimately selfish whether theist or atheist. Such is life.
 
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