Theists and atheists: try to persuade me!

N

Norsefire

Salam Shalom Salom
Registered Senior Member
Since both of you cannot give me actual evidence (although the burden of proof lies more with theists, atheists still can't disprove God), I want you to use various other things, such as

logics
reasoning
incentives
etc


To back up your argument, and to try to persuade me to go either way! I am curious to see what you come up with.
 
Norsefire said:
Since both of you cannot give me actual evidence (although the burden of proof lies more with theists, atheists still can't disprove God), I want you to use various other things, such as

logics
reasoning
incentives
etc


To back up your argument, and to try to persuade me to go either way! I am curious to see what you come up with.
Click to expand...

Arguments of logic etc can only bring one to the platform of practice. If one is reluctant to take up practice there is no question of approaching evidence. It doesn't matter what field of knowledge one might be discussing.

Since there is no evidence for atheistic claims and also no practice, a majority of atheist arguments aim to deconstruct the very practices required for evidencing the nature of god.

Basically spiritual life begins at the point of understanding that one is not the body. As long as one remains in the bodily conception of life, their logic reasoning and pursuit of incentives will all be askew (even if they are a so-called theist) ... so I would argue that first one has to develop a little conviction about the unreasonable, illogical and totally uninspiring nature of considering the body as the self ... then perhaps there is the possibility of approaching spiritual life with a little determination.
 
Meaning what?
God did nothing more than flick the first marble and thus followed the creationg of matter and everything else happened without his/her interference?
Did God create life on this planet (and perhaps elsewhere)?
Did he design all the different life forms?
Be more specific.
Give us a brief biography.
 
one_raven said:
Meaning what?
God did nothing more than flick the first marble and thus followed the creationg of matter and everything else happened without his/her interference?
Did God create life on this planet (and perhaps elsewhere)?
Did he design all the different life forms?
Be more specific.
Give us a brief biography.
Click to expand...

An intelligent entity that is somehow responsible for the creation of our reality/universe.
 
one_raven said:
So, this God just flicked the first marble and nothing else?
Click to expand...

I like the term "Creator" more; "God" implies supernatural/magical things, whereas "Creator" simply implies, well, a Creator. It could be simply a scientist performing an experiment (our universe), etc, etc,

Simply a creator that created our universe. Nothing else.
 
Seems rather pointless to me and I don't why anyone would bother caring to worship or even consider it.
This God has nothing to do with my life - it has done nothing in Billions of years and may as well not exist.
You might as well say it does not exist and the universe was created through entirely natural means, or that it always existed.
What does it matter if this God exists?
 
one_raven said:
Seems rather pointless to me and I don't why anyone would bother caring to worship or even consider it.
This God has nothing to do with my life - it has done nothing in Billions of years and may as well not exist.
You might as well say it does not exist and the universe was created through entirely natural means, or that it always existed.
What does it matter if this God exists?
Click to expand...

Simply for curiousity; why do we even bother learning the history of the universe? For information, for answers. And as of now, there is no reason at all to suggest that there is not, or that there is, a Creator.


You must realize one thing: our universe is our universe. Everything we know, is confined to its spaces. Everything beyond, if anything, would not be subject to our universal laws.

And another thing, our universe operates with its own set of laws and order. Our universe is like a machine; the question is, what, or who, created or led to the beginning of this "machine"?
 
Norsefire said:
Our universe is like a machine; the question is, what, or who, created or led to the beginning of this "machine"?
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This is a question that we will, in all likelihood never find an answer to.

Does it matter if we say "God", "magic", "Big Bang" or "Fred Jenkins"?
They are all the same answer: "I don't know."
 
shaman_ said:
I will send you cookies if you become an atheist.
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Ha.


A great thing I've always wondered is, "why not?"
Why not believe in God and heaven and good? Why not believe that you will be saved and everything is OK and there is a being watching over and caring for you?

Why not? For atheists, don't you want to believe that there is a heaven and there is something higher?

Why not?

That is the great incentive that religion offers. Atheism offers nothing. Science doesn't bring you happiness. Would you eat from the Tree of Knowledge only to die shortly afterwards?

It comes down to a choice: cold, hard facts, which result in a nihilistic and pessimistic life, or happiness.
 
Norsefire said:
Why not believe in God and heaven and good? Why not believe that you will be saved and everything is OK and there is a being watching over and caring for you?
Click to expand...
You said nothing about heaven, good, watching over, caring for...
All you said was this God created the universe and nothing more.
There is a world of difference.

Norsefire said:
Why not? For atheists, don't you want to believe that there is a heaven and there is something higher?
Click to expand...
Some people chose to beleive what they want to beleive to make themselves feel better, be less scared, sleep better at night...
Some, like me, can't simply decide to beleive something because it feels good.
Some see a placebo as nothing more than a sugar pill and chose to not lie to themselves.

Norsefire said:
Why not?
Click to expand...
Truth.

Norsefire said:
That is the great incentive that religion offers. Atheism offers nothing. Science doesn't bring you happiness. Would you eat from the Tree of Knowledge only to die shortly afterwards?
Click to expand...
I perfer truth to fantasy.
fantasy is fun, but I will never convince myself it is true no matter how hard I tried - and I don't want to try.
What is so bad and scary about reality that you can't face it?

Norsefire said:
It comes down to a choice: cold, hard facts, which result in a nihilistic and pessimistic life, or happiness.
Click to expand...
I am personally happy with truth (or the pursuit of it).
I am not nihilistic or pessimistic.
Truth makes me happy.
Lies make me unhappy.
 
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Norsefire said:
Since both of you cannot give me actual evidence (although the burden of proof lies more with theists, atheists still can't disprove God), I want you to use various other things, such as

logics
reasoning
incentives
etc


To back up your argument, and to try to persuade me to go either way! I am curious to see what you come up with.
Click to expand...

I'll be interested to see how many responses you get from atheists. As one myself, I have no particular interest persuading you of anything. The only thing that gets my back up and evokes a rersponse is when theists make ridiculous claims , and then only in an attempt to prevent them spreading their virus.
 
Norsefire said:
I like the term "Creator" more; "God" implies supernatural/magical things, whereas "Creator" simply implies, well, a Creator. It could be simply a scientist performing an experiment (our universe), etc, etc,

Simply a creator that created our universe. Nothing else.
Click to expand...

Would you worship this creator when it was proven to you that it indeed was a scientist, and we were his experiment ?
 
Norsefire, if you don't become an atheist we will genetically engineer you to live forever and then torture you forever.
 
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