Adstar: No verses there. Give me one.
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M*W: Here goes: You are a liar!
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M*W: Here goes: You are a liar!
The Way of the LORD
- Thread starter battig1370
- Start date
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Adstar said:
Actually there is Roman 13 in which Paul makes it a duty of his congregations to follow secular authority, and then give secular authority the go-ahead to suppress any rebellion.
But in keeping with paul's kowtowing to secular authority, paul would have been careful not to incite too many riots... not so he could be caught. But we have the internal evidence from the Book of Acts. Paul was tried by both the Sanhedrin and then the Charges were forwarded for Prosecution even by the Emperor himself. The Book of Acts omits telling us what the Charges are... what paul was indicted for. What could have been serious enough. We do have the Book of Revelation, chapter 2, verse 22, telling us that the Church of Ephesus booted paul out, and then we have Paul in the 20th Chapter of Acts speaking with venom against his opponents. It would seem as though he were inciting riot between his die-hard followers and those Elders who were kicking him out because of his Doctrinal Innovations... not everyone has a great sense of humour about him being the Antichrist.
But mostly, Paul's pronouncement in Romans 13 that Secular Authority trumps ecclessiastical authority would come back to haunt The Church again and again and again. Every two-bit thug that could steal the job of Dog Catcher would claim the God Given Authority, granted by Romans 13, to commit any mayhem, War or civil suppression. Every King and Emperor would challenge the authority of the Pope to maintain a Peaceful Civilization. The last Secular Leader to snub the Pope was George W. Bush who it was reported actually laughed when he heard that the Pope begged for Peace before the invasion of Iraq, saying "Maybe the Pope should read the Bible... God gives me the right to do any damn thing I like... not him".
I don't call Paul the antichrist for nothing. Afterall, demons and Barbarians always seem to be able to quote paul to get their way. It must mean something.
an>roid.v2
Registered Senior Member
JESUS said:
battig1370 said:
Mindless shit. You expect LUV to rule before peace? Luv, my dear thirteen-seven-oh, is... hold on to something... is an aftermath. Deed - and truth - is not an aftermath -- it's a progression. Now, why don't you just turn that lime-green vomit and spit it right back at what prevents progress -- like, uhn, the system you so much LUV.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Adstar said:
Did you bother looking at Romans Chapter 13 where paul places all Believers under Civil Authority. After that, it doesn't matter what paul says anywhere else regarding War or Peace... as Paul simply gave up Jurisdiction to the Militarists and the Politicians. Paul said to obey Civil Authority and Civil Authority says to "Fight".
So why are you still so confused?
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Red Devil said:
Originality is the fetish of secular humanists. This is why in modern western culture good music, good art, good literature is all abandoned in the pursuit of an originality that is rarely equal to what it displaces. Why is it that you suppose the Other World Cultures so dread the prospect of being Overwhelmed by Western Culture... it is because they anticipate that all of their best Cultural Artifacts will be swept away by Western 'Originality', or what they perceive as mediocrity.
If you want something interesting then maybe you should read "Wuthering Heights"... its not original, any more, but it is good.
Ah good, then its ok for all bible punchers to continuously quote quote after quote after quote after quote etc for millennia and not pur a single word of anything resembling human thought in, ok!
BOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG!
BOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG!
i really agree with you----yawwwn---Red Devil about the sheeple conformity of bible punchers, and all the Abrahamic religious book thumpers actually. not one has an original thought in their head. its all 'the bible told me so...the koran...the whatever. to look sideways, upwards, downwars, ANYwhere away from thei precious books is too dangerous for them to consider
i was part of the Infidels Forums...and tried to have some kind of original debate with the ones recyling same old same old theological propagander....and more often than not was completely ignored. it was a from of TABOO--i came to understand. Taboo can take many forms, and one is what ever you say--if threatening to the Book-ists, they do not HEAR what you say....really freaky!
i was part of the Infidels Forums...and tried to have some kind of original debate with the ones recyling same old same old theological propagander....and more often than not was completely ignored. it was a from of TABOO--i came to understand. Taboo can take many forms, and one is what ever you say--if threatening to the Book-ists, they do not HEAR what you say....really freaky!
These people, so convinced of their own righteousness, do not hear the voice of reason, the questioning person. It is so sad that they cannot form a coherent sentence without recourse to quotations from that which forms their very lives, they are mindless zombies in a manner of speaking, cannot function without a holy book in their hands. Therefore it becomes impossible to discuss anything, as they only have one brainwashed train of thought.
In a soccer forum, of all places, here in the UK, we are currently discussing the existence of god with a preacher from Texas, who is a soccer fan too. Its in a "other business" section by the way. For page after page he has defended himself and his beliefs alone, without one single quote from a bible, except if asked where something or other was. Its a lively intelligent debate, with no name calling or suchlike and has been going on since before Christmas virtually without a pause!
In a soccer forum, of all places, here in the UK, we are currently discussing the existence of god with a preacher from Texas, who is a soccer fan too. Its in a "other business" section by the way. For page after page he has defended himself and his beliefs alone, without one single quote from a bible, except if asked where something or other was. Its a lively intelligent debate, with no name calling or suchlike and has been going on since before Christmas virtually without a pause!
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Red Devil said:
We have yet to have an interesting and original essay from yourself, and I am sure I am not the only one who has noticed.
You are making a fool of yourself.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
duendy said:
You guys have a selective memory.
You are pretending that you were able to completely dispatch your competition, when that is not the way I see it at all.
When I see the name Duendy I don't attach it to any dazzling rebukes of anything I've said. It just see another imperceptive sixth grader who feels the best way of asserting his blurred sense of individuality is to reject the foundations of what formed the Civilization in which he was raised. You're shaking your fist at the sky only because it make you feel alive, and you are quite oblivious about the arguments made in reply to you, or you would have realized a long time ago that you have been getting your ass kicked the whole time.
Leo Volont said:
Suffering from selective amnesia are we or have you only just learnt to read something outside of a bible? I am not sure how far back these threads go, but I have many hundreds of posts that argue a point, carry out a discussion or deliberate on something. Unfortunately for the world, religion is a non negotiable item when it comes to having a constructive discussion with bible punchers whose only contribution to a thread is yet another boring fart arsed quote from a book of fables!
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Red Devil said:
And I have been on the other side of it, and find you atheists a tad boring also. For one, practically none of you are educated in it. You are all doing a lousy job of re-creating the original arguments, from the French Age of Enlightenment -- Diderot and Voltaire and that gang -- but very poorly. Why don't you guys pick up a book and then, as they say, stand on the shoulder of the Giants who came before you, instead of always trying to reinvent your Wheels, and making them come out square.
So, no, there is not a great deal of originality coming from your own corner. But you don't complain about that.
Maybe you just need a new hobby if you are so bored with this one. Maybe you could find a Website about Automotive Stuff and talk about zooping up cars or whatever.
Hey very good!! I come in here for some light relief after a hard days work and some work on the huge web site I run and the web site I run for a friend's shop. Naturally, the room where I get the biggest laughs is religion, its really fun seeing zealots try to justify their existence according to the old book. Anyway, back to the grind stone so to speak, toodle pip! It is good being an athiest, allows a much broader view of the spectrum of life without the blindfold of religious bias.
Leo Volont said:
Of course i have read Romans chapter 13. We are under civil authority up until civil authority tells us to commit acts against Gods Will. Then We must follow Gods will expressed through the Messiah Jesus. civil authority is under the control of satanic forces. That's why satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of this world if He would bow down and worship him. No power that is in authority on earth is there without God allowing it.
1 John 5:19
"The whole world lieth in the evil one."
The world is the book of job written large. It is only with the return of The Messiah Jesus that the kingdoms of this world will become His. Until then we are under the authority of these powers on earth we pay our taxes giving unto caesar what is caesar and never seeking to overthrow any powers that God has allowed to rule on earth.
Once again your thinking is wrong. We allow the powers of this world to do as they wish and never join in there power games. Proud people who are attracted to that game will go and play that game and they will all end as eternal losers. Even in his rebellion satan performs a service for God He draws away those who do not have love for the truth and his persecution purifies the Body of Christ.
So my original challenge still stands. Paul did not at any stage tell the Faithful to engage in combat. We are to leave that to the world authorities they have ample numbers of willing people to do they’re bidding.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
battig1370
Registered Senior Member
spidergoat: Why is it, almost every Christian I know supports wars
Battig1370: Because the founder of Christianity is Saul/St.Paul and not Jesus.
Adstar: Where in Pauls righting is their any support for followers of Jesus fighting wars?
Battig1370: First of all, the founder of Christianity was not Jesus, but it was Saul/St.Paul. Saul/St.Paul's Mystical Jesus, who is the Beast, is the cornerstone of christianity. Before the Damascus road event their were no christians. On the road to Damascus, Saul was a wretched man and near the time his death in Rome he confesses to be wretched man as written.in Roman 7:14-20 +24-25. Saul/St.Paul's deeds were not according to his words, and result he was not a disciple of the Lord. When a man does not walk his talk, he is a liar.
John, who was close friend of Jesus said according to 'The First Epistle of John' 3:6, "Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor know Him"
Saul/St.Paul did not know the Jesus that John knew because Saul/St.Paul says "--- I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh, I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. --- Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? --- So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin." - ( Roman 7:14-20 +24-25 )
John said, " He who sins is of the Devil"
The reason almost every Christian supports wars is because they have Not been followers of Jesus.
The way of the Lord is:
--- "Thou shalt love the lord thy God with all thy heart, and all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two comandments hang all the law and the prophets."(Matt.:22:37-40).
--- "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I haved loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. (John 13:34-35).
--- "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you ---" ( Matt.5:43-48 )
--- "Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you ---" ( Luke 6:27-38 )
--- "love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again: and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." ( Luke 6:27-38 )
Peace be with you, Paul
Battig1370: Because the founder of Christianity is Saul/St.Paul and not Jesus.
Adstar: Where in Pauls righting is their any support for followers of Jesus fighting wars?
Battig1370: First of all, the founder of Christianity was not Jesus, but it was Saul/St.Paul. Saul/St.Paul's Mystical Jesus, who is the Beast, is the cornerstone of christianity. Before the Damascus road event their were no christians. On the road to Damascus, Saul was a wretched man and near the time his death in Rome he confesses to be wretched man as written.in Roman 7:14-20 +24-25. Saul/St.Paul's deeds were not according to his words, and result he was not a disciple of the Lord. When a man does not walk his talk, he is a liar.
John, who was close friend of Jesus said according to 'The First Epistle of John' 3:6, "Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor know Him"
Saul/St.Paul did not know the Jesus that John knew because Saul/St.Paul says "--- I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh, I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. --- Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? --- So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin." - ( Roman 7:14-20 +24-25 )
John said, " He who sins is of the Devil"
The reason almost every Christian supports wars is because they have Not been followers of Jesus.
The way of the Lord is:
--- "Thou shalt love the lord thy God with all thy heart, and all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two comandments hang all the law and the prophets."(Matt.:22:37-40).
--- "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I haved loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. (John 13:34-35).
--- "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you ---" ( Matt.5:43-48 )
--- "Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you ---" ( Luke 6:27-38 )
--- "love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again: and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." ( Luke 6:27-38 )
Peace be with you, Paul
