The Trump Presidency

[Schmelzer]

hard to tell because you consistently call non fascist US fascist while defending the actually fascist russia

No. I don't name US fascist. They support fascism as well as islamic terrorism and they would support everything if it helps to destroy other countries which resist US rule. But to name US themselves fascist I leave to others (say, under Trump rule to iceaura).

not to mention the fact the entire crisis was caused by russian involvment.

Nonsense. It was caused by a coup against the legitimate government and president of the Ukraine, which was heavily supported by the West. That government and president had its strongest popular support in the Eastern parts, especially in Crimea. Those who tool power were Bandara fascists, hated in the East.

 

[Schmelzer]

Something about how ended the voting for UN resolution "Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance":

Against: US and Ukrainie. Abstention: mainly the West. In favor: The rest of the world.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Something about how ended the voting for UN resolution "Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance":

Against: US and Ukrainie. Abstention: mainly the West. In favor: The rest of the world.

While not entirely surprising do you know why the rejection of item 70?
...and by what Presidential Administration?
Who was the USA UN representative?
What dates?
etc etc...

 

[pjdude1219]

No. I don't name US fascist.

yes you do. dont lie.

They support fascism as well as islamic terrorism and they would support everything if it helps to destroy other countries which resist US rule. But to name US themselves fascist I leave to others (say, under Trump rule to iceaura).

seriously you are going to flat out lie about this. russia supports terror islamic terror groups. most terror groups are using russian equipment

Nonsense.

if you are calling it nonsense it must be true. russia was involved in the governments decision making and actively pushed for the worst crimes to be committed.

It was caused by a coup against the legitimate government and president of the Ukraine, which was heavily supported by the West.

there was no coup. even the pro russian parties voted to oust the president. what they did was legit you are just pissed because the fascist country of russia you love lost influence.

That government and president had its strongest popular support in the Eastern parts, especially in Crimea.

yeah in the most ethnically cleansed areas of the country

Those who tool power were Bandara fascists, hated in the East.

as opposed to the fascist you support?

 

[pjdude1219]

Something about how ended the voting for UN resolution "Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance":

Against: US and Ukrainie. Abstention: mainly the West. In favor: The rest of the world.

they voted against because your boy trump loves fucking nazis. its literally the guy you support who did this. are you honestly this stupid or does your irrational hatred of the us and constant imbibing of russian propaganda totally fucked up your ability to think shit through.

 

[Write4U]

Something about how ended the voting for UN resolution "Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance":

Against: US and Ukrainie. Abstention: mainly the West. In favor: The rest of the world.

This is meaningless. Provide a link to the original site. Its real easy: copy and paste the addy is all it takes.

 

[Schmelzer]

This is meaningless. Provide a link to the original site. Its real easy: copy and paste the addy is all it takes.

https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3894841?ln=en

they voted against because your boy trump loves fucking nazis. its literally the guy you support who did this. are you honestly this stupid or does your irrational hatred of the us and constant imbibing of russian propaganda totally fucked up your ability to think shit through.

Biden would have voted against too. The Dems have supported the Ukrainian Nazis even more. As well as the Ukrainian Nazi Poroshenko, then in power, cooperated with the Dems against Trump (for example, providing material against that campaign manager of Trump, who has worked for Yanukovic before.

While not entirely surprising do you know why the rejection of item 70?
...and by what Presidential Administration?
Who was the USA UN representative?
What dates?
etc etc...

Date as visible on the top 12/16/2020. So, Trump administration. Given that UN resolutions are usually only symbol policy with no real influence, the abstentions are simply a sign of being a US vassal. Ukraine is too much Bandera fascist, so that it is clear that they vote against. Why the other active supporters of fascism, like Croatia and the Baltic states, have not voted against, and why the US has voted against I don't know. For what is done on the ground it would have been more natural if the Baltic states and Croatia would have voted against and the US abstained.

yes you do. dont lie.

Quote please. (I have named the economic system corporatism, which was the economic system of fascism too. But this is simply the modern system of economy almost everywhere.)

seriously you are going to flat out lie about this. russia supports terror islamic terror groups. most terror groups are using russian equipment

"Russian" (meaning Soviet) equipment you can buy everywhere. All those former Warsaw pact (now NATO) states were completely on Soviet equipment. Terrorist like everybody else like that equipment because it works nicely despite being cheap.

there was no coup. even the pro russian parties voted to oust the president. what they did was legit you are just pissed because the fascist country of russia you love lost influence.

There were not enough votes to oust the president.

yeah in the most ethnically cleansed areas of the country as opposed to the fascist you support?

There were more Russians in the Eastern regions because they have never been Ukrainian until Lenin decided to give these regions to Ukraine. The ethnic cleansing, decided by the Georgian Soviet leader Dshugashvili (Stalin), was in Crimea and directed against Crimean Tatars. I don't support in any way Georgians, neither fascists nor communists nor US vassals. It happened long ago, immediately after WWII. Maybe the US elections also don't count because of the genocide against the native population?
There was never anything Ukrainian in Crimea before Ukrainian Soviet leader Khrushchev, plausible drunk, made Crimea Ukrainian by a communist party decision, without asking the population or so. (That guy was responsible for the Ukaine in Stalin time, and known for murdering a lot of Ukrainians during the repressions).

 

[Quantum Quack]

Why the other active supporters of fascism, like Croatia and the Baltic states, have not voted against, and why the US has voted against I don't know.

Under direction from Trump, I would hypothesize that the delegate voted against the resolution and not just abstained, because he, Trump, is personally terrified of upsetting, inflaming or other wise alienating right wing extremists. Including Putin and all the other alt right despots of the world. His fear of assassination or other harm coming to his family himself during and after his presidency seems pretty obvious to me. (see contradiction below)
The USA has some major issues regarding the sort of people that the UN resolution is focusing on and there is many reasons to believe that Trump is under duress or at least believes he is under threat. To instruct the UN delegate to vote against is more about placating the alt right so that he and his family can avoid taking a sniper round. IMO.
Politically it had no effect on the outcome of the resolution. It Passed. It was expected to pass.
Trump managed to save his ass at the cost of being seen to favor the Nazi supremacists perspective which because of his relationship with Israel and Jewish family members etc stands out as a massive moral and ethical contradiction.

The contradiction:

• Trump has strong personal ties with Israel's power/security in the Middle East.
• Trump has significant Jewish family ties.
  
• Trump votes for neo Nazi and Nazi sympathizers.

The reason why he didn't abstain and voted against when abstaining would have normally sufficed indicates he has serious "other" concerns.
Outcome:
Trump proving once again he was/is not fit to be POTUS.

 

[pjdude1219]

Under direction from Trump, I would hypothesize that the delegate voted against the resolution and not just abstained, because he, Trump, is personally terrified of upsetting, inflaming or other wise alienating right wing extremists. Including Putin and all the other alt right despots of the world. His fear of assassination or other harm coming to his family himself during and after his presidency seems pretty obvious to me. (see contradiction below)
The USA has some major issues regarding the sort of people that the UN resolution is focusing on and there is many reasons to believe that Trump is under duress or at least believes he is under threat. To instruct the UN delegate to vote against is more about placating the alt right so that he and his family can avoid taking a sniper round. IMO.
Politically it had no effect on the outcome of the resolution. It Passed. It was expected to pass.
Trump managed to save his ass at the cost of being seen to favor the Nazi supremacists perspective which because of his relationship with Israel and Jewish family members etc stands out as a massive moral and ethical contradiction.

The contradiction:

• Trump has strong personal ties with Israel's power/security in the Middle East.
• Trump has significant Jewish family ties.
  
• Trump votes for neo Nazi and Nazi sympathizers.

The reason why he didn't abstain and voted against when abstaining would have normally sufficed indicates he has serious "other" concerns.
Outcome:
Trump proving once again he was/is not fit to be POTUS.

this is actually one thing where he kept with former presidents go back to dubya. we have always voted against these resolution viewing them as russian acts to attack their neighbors. the resolution is one russia has been putting forth since 2015. this is just schmelzer usual pushing of russian propaganda. there was a time canada voted against it.


https://usun.usmission.gov/explanation-of-vote-on-a-resolution-on-the-glorification-of-nazism/

Chair – The United States joins the world community in commemorating the 75th anniversary of the end of the Second World War. We honor the valiant contributions and the heroism and sacrifice of allied nations and their service members in the defeat of Nazi Germany in 1945. We also join the international community in condemning the glorification of Nazism and all forms of racism, xenophobia, discrimination, and intolerance. In fighting against the murderous tyranny of Nazism, the United States also fought for the freedom, dignity and human rights of all – including our steadfast commitment to freedom of expression.

Today, however, the United States must express opposition to this resolution, a document most notable for its thinly veiled attempts to legitimize longstanding Russian disinformation narratives denigrating neighboring nations under the cynical guise of halting Nazi glorification. The United States Supreme Court has consistently affirmed the constitutional right to freedom of speech and the rights of peaceful assembly and association, including by avowed Nazis, whose hatred and xenophobia are widely scorned by the American people. At the same time, we steadfastly defend the constitutional rights of those who exercise their rights to combat intolerance and express strong opposition to the odious Nazi creed and others espousing similar hatreds.

Despite consistently expressing our concerns with the Russian delegation and proposing revisions to protect against unacceptable restrictions on freedom of expression, our recommendations, intended to improve and strengthen this resolution, have been ignored. We discourage States from invoking Article 4 of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination and Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights in an attempt to either silence unwelcome opinions or to excuse their failure to combat intolerance.

For these reasons, the United States has voted against each new version of this resolution since 2005 and is, again, compelled to vote “No” on this resolution, and calls on other States to do the same.

the US response by Jason Mack

 

[pjdude1219]

There were more Russians in the Eastern regions because they have never been Ukrainian until Lenin decided to give these regions to Ukraine. The ethnic cleansing, decided by the Georgian Soviet leader Dshugashvili (Stalin), was in Crimea and directed against Crimean Tatars. I don't support in any way Georgians, neither fascists nor communists nor US vassals. It happened long ago, immediately after WWII. Maybe the US elections also don't count because of the genocide against the native population?
There was never anything Ukrainian in Crimea before Ukrainian Soviet leader Khrushchev, plausible drunk, made Crimea Ukrainian by a communist party decision, without asking the population or so. (That guy was responsible for the Ukaine in Stalin time, and known for murdering a lot of Ukrainians during the repressions).

i wasn't talking about the ukrainians but the original inhabitants of the crimean peninsula the tatars. you have an excuse for everything don't you so you can feel good about defending fascism, and war crimes. you are one sick puppy. i hope you get the psychiatric help you so desperately need

and the ethnic cleaning of the tatars started under imperial russia under the romanov dynasty. so as i said its funny how you still continue your SOP of trying to move the blame for russia's crimes onto others. if you are going to try and debate history perhaps you should learn some.

 

[Write4U]

To change the conversation.

TRACK THE STATUS OF TRUMP’S BORDER WALL

https://www.trumpwall.construction/

Trump border wall on pristine land hurts animal migration: "They don't recognize any boundaries. They've been here forever."

The Sierra Madre mountains rise from the Sonoran Desert where Arizona and New Mexico meet Mexico. It is one of the areas targeted by the Trump administration as it rushes to complete its promised

border wall.

Construction of the last 35 miles of the wall in Arizona is now underway in the rugged mountains. And it is challenging as well as controversial, because of the pristine land the wall is cutting through.

"It's a huge richness of biodiversity, of culture and relationship between the two nations,"

conservationist Jose Manuel Perez told CBS News' Michelle Miller. "We are losing that with this wall."

Construction requires roads to be carved out of mountainsides so workers, machines and materials can sink 30-foot high steel beams into concrete. Costs have been reported at $41 million per mile, more than any other stretch of the 738-mile project.....more

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-border-wall-animal-migration-sierra-madre-mountains/

At a cost of 41 million per mile!

Outside animals are being trapped and inside humans are being starved to death by a pandemic.
Quite a legacy.

 

[Quantum Quack]

this is actually one thing where he kept with former presidents go back to dubya. we have always voted against these resolution viewing them as russian acts to attack their neighbors. the resolution is one russia has been putting forth since 2015. this is just schmelzer usual pushing of russian propaganda. there was a time canada voted against it.


https://usun.usmission.gov/explanation-of-vote-on-a-resolution-on-the-glorification-of-nazism/



the US response by Jason Mack

Thank you for the clarification and for posting the reasoning behind the rejection. I did attempt to find it, out of curiosity, if anything to confirm that the UN resolutions are taken seriously and are indeed responses that are well considered, but could not find the appropriate documents.
Unfortunately, paranoid and willfully ignorant people such as Schmelzer can not possibly understand that there are some people that are quite erudite, intelligent and most importantly honorable, with out attempting to discredit them due to their own need to maintain a sense of superiority. It is a common malady and we all suffer it in some form. Some more so than others.
I also made the mistake of venturing a hypothesis in ignorance. I made assumptions based on Trumps previous behavior and impulsiveness and attempted to make sense of what appeared to be a glaring contradiction. I was also suspicious that there was much more to this rejection than what appeared to be on the surface.
Again thank you for posting the reasoning...by Jason Mack.

The main point I feel being made by this rejection is that the USA was and is concerned about limiting or oppressing unjustly, freedom of expression even if that freedom involves unpleasant and rather "nasty" expressions.

A resolution that enshrines discrimination ( against disagreeable viewpoints) that pretends to be anti discriminatory fails to take into account the very point of anti discrimination resolutions.

Just to be clear:
On the surface:
"Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance"
...appears to be a policy setting or ideal and not a proposed law. How ever given the lessons of history, the ideal can very quickly become a regulation against free expression. Currently in Australia we also have issues regarding anti vilification, hate speech laws etc. and to say that this is a vexatious issue is an understatement.

The irony is that Schmelzer freedom to post in this forum with relative freedom is dependent on the world taking an anti discrimination pov. A world that is led by the USA. A world that is encouraged to maintain freedom of expression to be one of it's highest virtues. A freedom that is grossly diminished in Russia, China and various other nations, nations that actually voted in favor of the resolution.

So perhaps the contradiction is more about nations and individuals who only pay lip service like Russia who assassinate, poison, lock up or other wise oppress disagreement force-ably. Or China who build massive camps to enslave and re-educate minorities under the guise of national unification.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Schmelzer,
Guilty until proven innocent?
or
Innocent until proven guilty?

thoughts?
#cynicism, #preconceptions, #anti USA- discrimination, #making appeals to the ignorant

 

[iceaura]

No. I don't name US fascist. They support fascism as well as islamic terrorism and they would support everything if it helps to destroy other countries which resist US rule. But to name US themselves fascist I leave to others (say, under Trump rule to iceaura).

Your explicit refusal to see, let alone label, fascism is probably necessary - how else could one defend the support of Putin's government in Russia, his annexation of Crimea by military force, his corruption of the US elections, etc?
- - - -
Of course the attempt to claim that I "name" the US "themselves" fascist is flatly false - but the important relevance of that, given the insistence of that poster on posting such falsehoods routinely and regardless of exposure, is its role in the US propaganda operations it parrots: the goal is to separate Trump from the Republican Party as a necessary step in muddling all US political Parties and factions into one amorphous "bothsides" blob. The only reason for the frequent focus on me here, with an entire world of physical reality to deny, is that I am the primary source here of the simple repetition of the obvious physical fact that Trump is and has been a mainstream, centrist, Reagan era Republican President. And that is the dangerous pivot point - reality will take care of the rest: identified and labeled fantasy worlds cannot survive the progression of historical event.

As in the aftermath of W&Cheney, and before that the aftermath of Reagan/Bush, the consequences of modern Republican Party governance itself are thereby and therefore hidden - buried in a morass of bothsides punditry and passive voice constructions and chaotic barrages of ridiculous accusations.

An example of what the corporate authoritarian right has to block out of the awareness of American citizens: https://www.laprogressive.com/bankrupting-the-republican-party/?utm_source=LA Progressive NEW&utm_campaign=31ae3f2c2a-LAP News - 20 April 17 PC_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_61288e16ef-31ae3f2c2a-287011104&mc_cid=31ae3f2c2a&mc_eid=9e54f6db7f

Another one, different emphasis, re capitalist China: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/nz0g306v8c/china-tainted-cotton . (This is what Schmelzer is talking about as "Western propaganda", when he's accenting his outsider status, and "left" or "globalist" propaganda when he's just parroting).

And an example of what is going to be put on Trump, personally, and failures of "both sides", rather than on the Republican Party: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/endang...tions-of-endangered-species-today-2019-08-12/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-...cies-protection-threatened-monarch-butterfly/

 

[iceaura]

As well as the Ukrainian Nazi Poroshenko, then in power, cooperated with the Dems against Trump (for example, providing material against that campaign manager of Trump,

That was cooperation with the FBI and other US law enforcement - those folks are Republicans, mostly, not Democrats.

 

[Write4U]

How ironic that Obama had to show his birth certificate to prove his legitimacy, but Trump could commit a number of crimes and tax evasions and never had to prove his legitimacy as president, and now has pardoned convicted criminals as reward for their silence!

In fact when Trump was impeached by the Democrats, McConnell closed the proceeding before anyone had testified or records were examined. An insult to the concept of Justice.

Justice,

in its broadest sense, is the principle that people receive that which they deserve, with the interpretation of what then constitutes "deserving" being impacted upon by numerous fields, with many differing viewpoints and perspectives, including the concepts of moral correctness based on ethics, rationality, law, religion,
equity and fairness.

This will go in history as a dark time and a Republican attempt to install an Autocracy with a criminal boss at the helm. For shame !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pjdude1219]

Thank you for the clarification and for posting the reasoning behind the rejection. I did attempt to find it, out of curiosity, if anything to confirm that the UN resolutions are taken seriously and are indeed responses that are well considered, but could not find the appropriate documents.
Unfortunately, paranoid and willfully ignorant people such as Schmelzer can not possibly understand that there are some people that are quite erudite, intelligent and most importantly honorable, with out attempting to discredit them due to their own need to maintain a sense of superiority. It is a common malady and we all suffer it in some form. Some more so than others.
I also made the mistake of venturing a hypothesis in ignorance. I made assumptions based on Trumps previous behavior and impulsiveness and attempted to make sense of what appeared to be a glaring contradiction. I was also suspicious that there was much more to this rejection than what appeared to be on the surface.
Again thank you for posting the reasoning...by Jason Mack.

The main point I feel being made by this rejection is that the USA was and is concerned about limiting or oppressing unjustly, freedom of expression even if that freedom involves unpleasant and rather "nasty" expressions.

A resolution that enshrines discrimination ( against disagreeable viewpoints) that pretends to be anti discriminatory fails to take into account the very point of anti discrimination resolutions.

Just to be clear:
On the surface:
"Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance"
...appears to be a policy setting or ideal and not a proposed law. How ever given the lessons of history, the ideal can very quickly become a regulation against free expression. Currently in Australia we also have issues regarding anti vilification, hate speech laws etc. and to say that this is a vexatious issue is an understatement.

The irony is that Schmelzer freedom to post in this forum with relative freedom is dependent on the world taking an anti discrimination pov. A world that is led by the USA. A world that is encouraged to maintain freedom of expression to be one of it's highest virtues. A freedom that is grossly diminished in Russia, China and various other nations, nations that actually voted in favor of the resolution.

So perhaps the contradiction is more about nations and individuals who only pay lip service like Russia who assassinate, poison, lock up or other wise oppress disagreement force-ably. Or China who build massive camps to enslave and re-educate minorities under the guise of national unification.

oh don't get me wrong i think your right about trumps motives, i just disagree with with schmelzer's clear bias and atempts to always paint the us as evil and russia and china as good

 

[Schmelzer]

i wasn't talking about the ukrainians but the original inhabitants of the crimean peninsula the tatars. you have an excuse for everything don't you so you can feel good about defending fascism, and war crimes. you are one sick puppy. i hope you get the psychiatric help you so desperately need

I do not excuse at all the deportation of Crimean tatars. It is a crime against humanity, and, according to modern definitions (which includes deportations), genocide. A communist crime, done at a time when a Georgian ruled over Russia.

and the ethnic cleaning of the tatars started under imperial russia under the romanov dynasty. so as i said its funny how you still continue your SOP of trying to move the blame for russia's crimes onto others. if you are going to try and debate history perhaps you should learn some.

I do not claim that the Romanov dynasty has followed the rules of the UN charta. Many things which happened at that time are horrible from our point of view today. This includes all sides. Think about what that Belgian king has done in Kongo. Or what the US has done with the natives. The same done by the Russians in Siberia did not result in comparable wars. But there were serious wars in Caucasus, against Turkey, Persia and so on, and I would guess that Russia also had its fair share of what would be classified as war crimes today.

i just disagree with with schmelzer's clear bias and atempts to always paint the us as evil and russia and china as good

LOL, disagree about bias. Bias is irrelevant. I can support my position with facts, you cannot, that's what matters. BTW, I do not paint China as anything, I simply correct some obvious nonsense, that's all. I would definitely not like to live in a country like China, with so much control of everything by the government.

That was cooperation with the FBI and other US law enforcement - those folks are Republicans, mostly, not Democrats.

Who cares, it was clearly part of the fight against Trump. Of course, given that Manafort has been connected with Ukrainian politicians, there was certainly something illegal and it would have been easy to find it. That there are enough Rep globalists and anti-Trumpers I know.

 

[Write4U]

For a little humor in these dire times

 

[pjdude1219]

I do not excuse at all the deportation of Crimean tatars. It is a crime against humanity, and, according to modern definitions (which includes deportations), genocide. A communist crime, done at a time when a Georgian ruled over Russia.

for someone who keeps telling us how much more about russia you know than the rest of us you are pretty ignorant about russian history. the tatars deportion was primarily done before the communists existed.

I do not claim that the Romanov dynasty has followed the rules of the UN charta.

i would certainly hope not given the romanovs were deposed 30 years before the un was a thing.

Many things which happened at that time are horrible from our point of view today. This includes all sides. Think about what that Belgian king has done in Kongo. Or what the US has done with the natives. The same done by the Russians in Siberia did not result in comparable wars. But there were serious wars in Caucasus, against Turkey, Persia and so on, and I would guess that Russia also had its fair share of what would be classified as war crimes today.

do you have a point or are you just ranting and raving?

LOL, disagree about bias. Bias is irrelevant.

no your overwhelming bias is kinda of relevant given it keeps you from dealing with objective reality.

I can support my position with facts, you cannot, that's what matters.

you have the backwards. im the one using facts, you are making shit up and spouting conspiracy theories.

BTW, I do not paint China as anything, I simply correct some obvious nonsense, that's all.

by correct obvious nonsense i assume you mean ignore facts and make shit up. ive yet to see you say anything remotely factual.

I would definitely not like to live in a country like China, with so much control of everything by the government.

where do you live by the way. given your raging hard on for putin id say russia, but you seem to be the hypcritical sort who'd be living in the west because you know your spouting bs