The Thing about UFOs...

Origin of UFOs

  • Extraterrestrials

    Votes: 10 20.0%
  • Man-made

    Votes: 10 20.0%
  • Both

    Votes: 21 42.0%
  • Neither

    Votes: 9 18.0%

  • Total voters
    50
No scale. No context. No clarity. No strings. Oh, wait, there may have been strings. If that is one of the best vids ever taken is it any wonder some of us are a tad sceptical?
 
No scale. No context. No clarity. No strings. Oh, wait, there may have been strings. If that is one of the best vids ever taken is it any wonder some of us are a tad sceptical?

that footage was examined by experts, i remember it, it was around 95, it caused quite a big commotion.
 
If you're going to photograph or video the International Space Station from Earth, it's best to do it with a good telescope. It's also best to do it when the ISS is in Lunar or Solar transit to give contrast.

But every once in a while, you cans see it well enough with a good pair of binoculars, enough to make out the shape. This occurs when the ISS is being high enough that the its orbit is in sunlight but the observer is in the dark. When that happens, the ISS is as bright as Venus.

This video looks much like the ISS. Its orbit should have taken past the same location every night and for several nights the timing should have been such that it was illuminated by the sun.

The narrator of the video was right: it is huge when you account for the span of its solar panels.
 
Just a reminder - I'm still waiting on your list of names of scientists who are recognized to be experts in the study of UFOs.

So far, you've named only one.


LOL! Unlike you my friend I do not indulge these matters to eagerly within the realm of my "free" time. Before I left from work on Friday, during the time frame of about 15 minutes, I retrieved these for you.

Thomas Townsend Brown
J. Allen Hynek
Paul R. Hill
David R. Saunders
Stanton Friedman
Peter A. Sturrock

It's so sad that someone claiming to be intelligent and honestly objective concerning this matter, would go to such great lengths to discuss something you know very little or NOTHING about. How could you if you don't even respect and acknowledge the reputable and legitimate scientific community that has been researching these matters for many years? Your lack of familiarity in this sense outlines the sincerely unqualified judgment and rationale that you have exhibited "here".
 
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Well I do, for one. Pilots and astronauts are trained to follow patterns. Their lives depend upon it. Are they more critical in their thinking than Joe Blow Public? You bet. But are they critical enough? I doubt it.

And as for President's. Critical thinking in the rought and tumble of political life, sure, but an ability to assess unusual phenomena for which they have zero training. No way.


Which is why science requires that experimental results be duplicated by others, that research be subject to peer review, that known biases or interpretation errors be eliminated by the experimental procedure as in double blind drug tests. By taking care we can arrive at observations in which we have confidence. This is what makes the issue of UFO research so difficult - we cannot duplicate events and we do not have a prepared means of conducting and recording our observations.

1. The volume of the sightings is irrelevant, since our perception is at work all the time and the potential for being mislead is there all the time. What is important is not the quantity of the sightings, but their quality. If ET landed on the White House Lawn tomorrow and held a press conference, that is all we would need. One quality observation. (Once we've determined it isn't a clever hoax.)
2. I did not attribute them to faulty perception, but to faulty perception of 'regular' objects. Damn it, I've even been fooled by Venus, quite convinced it was a helicopter and even once I had established it was not, remaining emotionally disbelieving because it was so unusually bright.

If the manouvers they describe were real that would be true. However, just as in the previous example, people report Venus as moving. Small objects nearby that are interpreted as large objects far away will be capable of performing 'impossible' manouvers.


You Sir are the epitome of an egotist. A completely self convinced buffoon. This type of moronism and 4.00 will land you a great cup of Yuppie coffee. Possibly even with some similarly inflated & styled, self confabulated bullshit conversation. With yourself of course.
 
Thomas Townsend Brown
J. Allen Hynek
Paul R. Hill
David R. Saunders
Stanton Friedman
Peter A. Sturrock

[...] respect and acknowledge the reputable and legitimate scientific community that has been researching these matters for many years?

For the sake of discussion, and since you're obviously very "familiar" with their work, which of these men represents the best work on the topic of space aliens, flying saucers and UFOs? And then, of course, what is the most convincing paper this man has written.

For the sake of discussion.

Moderator note: while I moderate other sections of SciForums, I still have the duty & responsibility to remind everyone to avoid flaming, name-calling, and other juvenile actionst that detract from intelligent discussion.
 
You Sir are the epitome of an egotist. A completely self convinced buffoon. This type of moronism and 4.00 will land you a great cup of Yuppie coffee. Possibly even with some similarly inflated & styled, self confabulated bullshit conversation. With yourself of course.

This sort of post has no place here at SciForums. Please stick to posts which actually address the person's position and not the person. You have been warned both publicly and privately via PM. Further such outbursts may result in a temporary ban.
 
Look, ANYBODY that does not respect the likes of Gordon Cooper enough to credit him as an reliable witness with respect to aviation and space travel deserves MUCH worse.

However, I do hereby officially apologize and will do my best to curtail the liberty of my written angst with respect to those that have thus far demonstrated ZERO respect for me.

I certainly HOPE that you addressed Oily & Read-Only the same way because it was the very nature of their sarcastic and arrogant posts that prompted the nature of my responses.
 
I certainly HOPE that you addressed Oily & Read-Only the same way because it was the very nature of their sarcastic and arrogant posts that prompted the nature of my responses.

If I did or didn't it is none of your business and is between myself, the other mods and those members. Yours, however, is the only in-post warning I've made since other infractions have occured prior to my beginning to post. If you have any further questions or concerns regarding moderation please PM me, Stryder, or utilize the Site Feedback forum.

By the way, anyone that takes Cooper at his word (whatever that word might be) simply because he's a famous astronaut is committing a logical fallacy of the appeal to authority. It doesn't naturally follow that an extraordinary claim must be true simply because someone famous says it is so. The require for empirical evidence is the same regardless of the claimant's notoriety.
 
My, how predictably self important of you MR. Moderator. The TRUTH is that there is FAR more evidence pointing to the absolute and most assured empirical reality of UFOs being intelligently controlled craft than there is for the proposed reality of Evolution. But because "Empirical Evidence" merely translates to a popularly accepted explanation, I guess you are correct. I guess that's why UFOs are considered a pseudo science and Evolution the real deal huh? What a load of poppycock. You want to ban me permanently? Go right ahead. I am NOT going to stand for unfair cliquish BS. You treat EVERYONE fairly. Period. If you stand by and do NOTHING when posters like Read-Only call people IDIOTS, STUPID CHILDREN and Mental Defects, I have ZERO respect for you. You do what you have to do. I good and guarantee you one thing. It won't be in the name of science or ethics that you you do.
 
First, I never said that I don't treat people fairly as a moderator. Only that how I treat them is none of your business unless I made it public. The only reason your warning was public is that it was intended for everyone to see and correct their behavior.

Second, please always refer to me as "Mr." ("Mr. Moderator" or "Mr. SkinWalker" with both do nicely).

Third, and actually on-topic, I'm being very serious when I ask, with all curiosity, which of the men you listed is the most competent and reliable and which work of that man is his most significant with regard to UFOs, space aliens, and flying saucers. You need not post a link, a citation to a text or peer-reviewed work will do fine.

And I ask this for the sake of intelligent and rational discussion. You can choose to participate in an intelligent, rational discussion or you can go on and on about moderation, the behavior of other posters, your respect for whomever.... If the latter is your goal, please do so in the appropriate forum or the appropriate manner.
 
Greetings again EndLightEnd. In line with SkinWalker's request I just wanted to review some facts, in this instance the character of my communications with you. There were four on this thread.

Post 268 I welcomed you and asked for sources on your claim that at one time scientists had asserted the world was flat. (I'm still waiting for a response by the way.)

Post 305 Even although you had not answered me I thought it polite to answer a question you had asked of someone else earlier. I provided you with my ideas on the underlying causes of UFO sightings.

Post 320 You had complained in post 318 that SkinWalker was 'interfering' since you had directed a question he chose to answer to someone else. I explained to you that in the forum it is a free for all: it is generally accepted that if you wish only one person to answer a point you should send them a pm. I also asked you if you could get around to answering my earlier question. I threw in a weak joke here (If you keep ignoring me I'll think you are my wife.) to indicate I wasn't annoyed, but just wanted an answer.

Post 325 I addressed a series of points you had made in response to my post 305.

In all of these posts I was respectful. At no time did I swear, or call you an idiot. I expressed no thoughts about Gordon Cooper. So I think your attack on me, with not a single attempt to address any of the points I raised, was unwarranted and - more to the point - contributed absolutely nothing to your argument. Would you now like to address, in a serious and sober manner, any or all of the points I raised, without the name calling.

As an aside on Cooper, I wonder if you, like me, sat glued to a wireless set - we called them that in those days - as Colonel Leroy Gordon Cooper Jnr. sat atop his Atlas rocket in Faith 7 waiting to be lifted to his 22 orbit flight around the Earth. Do you still have, as I do, newspapers with front page headlines describing his flight? Can you get his name, rank, capsule name and orbit number correct, forty five years after the event, without referring to google, or digging out Leap of Faith, or The Right Stufffrom your personal library. I suspect not, so I would prefer that you not lecture me on any aspect of respect for any of the Mercury Seven.
 
Post 268 I welcomed you and asked for sources on your claim that at one time scientists had asserted the world was flat. (I'm still waiting for a response by the way.)

I never asserted scientists believed the Earth was flat. I suggested it was once the general consensus the Earth was flat. Just as the general consensus now is that UFOs are for gullible fools. Its a moot point, the IDEA behind this statement is that there a periods of history where we believe one thing to be true, only to find the exact opposite. This is no different. I just as easily could have used the example we once believed we were the center of the universe...

Your not the only one with questions being avoided...

Post 320 You had complained in post 318 that SkinWalker was 'interfering' since you had directed a question he chose to answer to someone else. I explained to you that in the forum it is a free for all: it is generally accepted that if you wish only one person to answer a point you should send them a pm. I also asked you if you could get around to answering my earlier question. I threw in a weak joke here (If you keep ignoring me I'll think you are my wife.) to indicate I wasn't annoyed, but just wanted an answer.

In all of these posts I was respectful. At no time did I swear, or call you an idiot. I expressed no thoughts about Gordon Cooper. So I think your attack on me, with not a single attempt to address any of the points I raised, was unwarranted and - more to the point - contributed absolutely nothing to your argument. Would you now like to address, in a serious and sober manner, any or all of the points I raised, without the name calling.

Its called fighting fire with fire. Although I acknowledge you were not the original attacker, I have been attacked several times on this thread. I was directly addressing an aggressor and you can imagine my dismay when a lackey comes in and takes the responsibility away from the person I put it on. Frankly its getting a bit old. I apologize if I offended you, because honestly the poll results talk for themselves.

Would you have liked it if someone came in and answered these questions for me when you specifically addressed me?

As an aside on Cooper, I wonder if you, like me, sat glued to a wireless set - we called them that in those days - as Colonel Leroy Gordon Cooper Jnr. sat atop his Atlas rocket in Faith 7 waiting to be lifted to his 22 orbit flight around the Earth. Do you still have, as I do, newspapers with front page headlines describing his flight? Can you get his name, rank, capsule name and orbit number correct, forty five years after the event, without referring to google, or digging out Leap of Faith, or The Right Stufffrom your personal library. I suspect not, so I would prefer that you not lecture me on any aspect of respect for any of the Mercury Seven.

I wasnt even alive. And I scarcely remember mentioning Gordon Cooper let alone lecturing on him. I did mention Dr. Mitchell...

In line with SkinWalker's request I just wanted to review some facts, in this instance the character of my communications with you. There were four on this thread.

So his request on the major points on the thread all include your posts...
Thats a little conceded.

I do plan on providing skinwalkers request, possibly in another topic, but it will take some time.
 
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First, I never said that I don't treat people fairly as a moderator. Only that how I treat them is none of your business unless I made it public. The only reason your warning was public is that it was intended for everyone to see and correct their behavior.

Second, please always refer to me as "Mr." ("Mr. Moderator" or "Mr. SkinWalker" with both do nicely).

Third, and actually on-topic, I'm being very serious when I ask, with all curiosity, which of the men you listed is the most competent and reliable and which work of that man is his most significant with regard to UFOs, space aliens, and flying saucers. You need not post a link, a citation to a text or peer-reviewed work will do fine.

And I ask this for the sake of intelligent and rational discussion. You can choose to participate in an intelligent, rational discussion or you can go on and on about moderation, the behavior of other posters, your respect for whomever.... If the latter is your goal, please do so in the appropriate forum or the appropriate manner.

You see, your post itself in the second paragraph seems to be colored with sarcasm and prejudice. Space Aliens? Flying Saucers? Come on. If you're going to HONESTLY examine this subject, you have to do so like a real skeptic. Not someone hiding behind the cloak of demanded "Empirical Evidence" and self determined preformed opinions on the matter.

It is true that MANY noteworthy scientists, certainly not just those that I googled inside of a 15 minute time frame, are extremely interested in this phenomenon. But how in the name of all that is science can ANYONE be considered the foremost authority on a subject that no one fully understands or comprehends to begin with? It doesn't work that way does it?

So the issue becomes one that begs real objective research. Research that allows great minds to juxtapose their ideas with respect to speculative hypothesis. These guesses, with respect to what is the UFO phenomenon, are best made by outlining irrefutable facts. Such facts are:

1) UFOs having been a major influence as documented throughout the last several thousand years time in mankind's history.

2) Countless examples of highly scrutinized film, photographs & video evidence. Evidence that is absolutely irrefutable. For instance, as pointed out much earlier by myself, the same clearly defined multiple objects as filmed via public spectacle by roughly 300 different video cameras simultaneously. That's a controlled experiment in observation if ever there was one.

3) Eye witness testimony by HUNDREDS of high ranking individuals of every walk of life. Every nationality and official professional capacity. People that were they to address a league of highly intelligent scientists and researchers on any other subject would command the utmost in respect and attention.

4) The last little item in this brief list comes in the form of a question. If UFOs bear no real recognized potential with respect to the United States Government, why are all this pieces of paper that they release via the "right to know" act, to scientific pests like Stanton Friedman, always majority blacked out? Why would we classify and give a priority secrecy status to something that's not real?

As far as a single "best mind", "most definitive research paper", I'm not sure there is one. At least I myself don't clamor after any one particular author or scientist. There is a an excellent, well written book called The God's of Eden by an author named William Bramley. It's a very quick read with respect to the clear evidence of documented UFO testimony and portrayal throughout recorded history over the last few thousand years. It also contains a great deal of fascinating esoteric history apart from the UFO phenomenon itself.

The trick to being a real skeptic lies in the ability to take all information with a grain of salt, and yet realizing that it only requires a discovery that starts out no bigger than a grain of salt, to create a paradigm shift within science itself. Those who discount reality based on predetermined aesthetic values or notions are doomed to an understanding no greater than yesterday's.
 
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I never asserted scientists believed the Earth was flat.
In that case this statement was phrased very badly indeed.
The world was FULL of the same ilk that went around claiming that science had long since proved that the world was flat

Its called fighting fire with fire. Although I acknowledge you were not the original attacker, I have been attacked several times on this thread.
That is no justification for attacking me when I have been polite to you throughout and have tried to engage in a dialogue with you, focusing on the facts.

you can imagine my dismay when a lackey comes in and takes the responsibility away from the person I put it on.
1. Let's dispense with a minor point first. I am not anyones lackey. It is offensive to describe me as such. Offensive and thoughtless. I don't even know - or care - who the questions were directed to.
2. No. I cannot imagine your dismay. I am astounded you would feel dismayed at that. This is a discussion forum. It is an open discussion forum. Everyone is free to interact with everyone else. That is quite apart from the fact that your questions were easily read as being directed to any UFO sceptic.

Would you have liked it if someone came in and answered these questions for me when you specifically addressed me?
I would have welcomed it as long as you did not use it as an excuse to avoid answering them. And even then I would have welcomed their answers as providing a different perspective.

I wasnt even alive (when Gordon Cooper made his first flight). And I scarcely remember mentioning Gordon Cooper let alone lecturing on him.
You said this three or so posts earlier.
Look, ANYBODY that does not respect the likes of Gordon Cooper enough to credit him as an reliable witness with respect to aviation and space travel deserves MUCH worse.
It is difficult to see how you could get so worked up over an individual whom, by your own admission, you know precious little about. And yes, my admiration and knowledge of the man does entitle me - I believe - to question his reliability as a witness, because I question the reliability of all witnesses.

So his request on the major points on the thread all include your posts...
Thats a little conceded (sic).
Skin's request was for us to deal with facts. As I stated I wanted to focus on the facts concerning your unprovoked attack on me. My intention was to demonstrate to you that it was unwarranted in the hope that you will think carefully before engaging in anything similar again.
 
This is why I didnt even want to bother with a reply, lets get back on subject, UFOs remember?
 
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