The Syrian "Revolution": A Farce from Beginning to End

[Bells]

Fucking server lost my goddamn reply. I spent thirty minutes on that fisk, and it was a nice one. Fuck it, I'll short-form it.

Poor baby.

First, actually all the evidence does not point to Assad. The Chinese 107mm rockets used in the attack are widely available, and used by insurgents in a number of places. The BND doesn't seem to think that the rebels could produce sarin, but sarin is actually easy to make: it was used in the Tokyo subway attack years ago. Moreover, one of CptBork's links has the BND saying that the rebels couldn't have the 107s, but again, they're easy to come by - a wide favourite among insurgents. I have respect for the BND, but that's a bit of a fundamental error to make. And several sources indicate that the rebels have used sarin before. One Hezbollah commander does not a fact make. You can’t run around saying “all evidence” when you’ve seen none of that actual evidence. We’re being asked to take each side’s word for it. Are you a BND agent now?

Are you claiming to know more or better than the intelligence agencies of the world who have been watching and observing the war in Syria? Yes or no.

Secondly, it is abundantly clear to anyone with even half a functioning brain cell that the rebels are very much outgunned and outarmed by the Russian armed Syrian army.

Second, I asked what the political disposition of the region struck was because I thought it might give some clue as to the attacker: if a government region, more likely a rebel attack, if a rebel region, more likely a government attack. You ran as hard as you could to fill in your own narrative as to my motivations, but only a retard could take such an argument seriously.

Coming from the retard who is such a conspiracy theorist that you twist yourself into knots trying to blame a Saudi for the Boston bombing, even as the police and FBI were involved in a gun battle with the actual bombers, you are really one to talk about taking arguments seriously.

The manner in which you asked about the political disposition made it look as if it matters. It does not.

If you must know, the rebels have advanced into Damascus, hence Assad, as the Hezbollah have advised Iran, panicked and used chemical weapons. He has been doing it for months in much smaller doses, however this time he went with more, either by mistake or with deliberate intent to kill as many of the rebels and their supporters as he could in that region of Damascus.

Third: I could almost believe French is your first language when I look at the posts in which you say I allege an American conspiracy. In the first, I say that I think Jones has misidentified security types – that is, that he’s calling them suspicious when in fact they’re security. I’m not sure how an English speaker could mistake this for anything else unless they tried really, really hard. In the second, I’m indicating my surprise at actually finding US army-type security guys in a crowd at a marathon. Maybe this is common in Australia, but I’ve never seen it. It does not mean that I think they were involved, or that the whole thing was some kind of false-flag attack. I linked Jones because he had pictures, and had found some interesting suspicious bags lying around and circled them; crazy he may be, but had found a few interesting patterns. I don’t think it was a sekrit American plot, and I never have. I hope that’s clear; or at least I would hope that’s clear. The next time you purportedly don’t understand one of my posts, just ask me about it. I guarantee it will be more efficient for everyone.

Nice try trying to divert it away from what I had asked you. Now perhaps you can explain how and why you missed it in the French dossier, especially as you claim, French is a very easy language to learn and you can read it so well?

Fourth: I asked about the political position of the areas struck because I thought that they might provide more support for one or another side being responsible: if opposition-held, Syrian responsibility; if Syrian-held, opposition. All regions were in fact held by the rebels, which supports Syrian culpability. I appreciate that you ran with that supposition as hard and as long as you could, but it simply isn't so.

Well seeing that the area was being held by the rebel forces, what do you think? When even Hezbollah, in a call that was intercepted by the German intelligence, told the Iranian Embassy that Assad had grown desperate and resorted to using chemical weapons.. Really, how hard is it for you to grasp this? Or do you support Assad so much that you are willing to make excuses for him?

Fifth: the report only says that the French writers were disposed to think that the Assad regime struck them. The sentence amounts to that and nothing more. There is no 'smoking gun'. The attack on Damas they consider to be confirmed as being from Assad (and I agree), but Ghota amounts to a likelihood, not a certitude, while you present it as the latter. There's an order of battle, a blurb on the history of CWs in Syria, a report on an earlier helicopter attack using gas - which I agree must be attributed to Assad, simply via the use of helis - and a correlation in time between the attack and activity at military bases in the area for the Ghota attack. They mention a "massive and coordinated attack", which argues in favour of Assad's guilt, but I don't know what the extent of the rebels' abilities really is, and I don't think they do either; what they have is assertion. There is no order of battle given for the SFA and it is exceedingly dubious that they would have no capacity to produce sarin (see above on the Tokyo attack). Some of the sites hit are also too far from Syrian government lines (> 8 km) to have been hit by 107mm rockets. Al-Mezzeh airbase is mentioned in the report, but if the French are alleging the firing took place from there (the nearest of the two airbases, Mezzah and Dummar), only two of the sites are actually within range of the 107mm. It's possible that sarin rounds are lighter, but I have no information on this.

Still making excuses for Assad and his use of chemical weapons I see. What next? You are going to blame Saudis for the attack? After all, that's your style isn't it? Conspiracies everywhere..

The only sources that have claimed the rebels have used sarin in the past have been Russia and Assad, wow, no surprise there. The UN member who was there speaking to refugees said that some claimed the rebels had seen it, and by your own BBC link you posted earlier, she advised she had no proof and no evidence to substantiate those claims. What all intelligence agencies have pointed to have been direct use of chemical weapons by Assad's forces. Again, unless you know more than they do and have evidence to show as much?

And finally: French is not exactly a hard language to translate, Bells. Why exactly would you think I thought you were unable to produce your own translation? You already posted a translated section in an earlier page! I just don’t believe in doing your work for you. Now, I don’t actually believe French was your first language – I think you just ran Google Translate or one of the other multitude of online tools - but either way, I'm not sure how you could really believe that I thought it was inaccessible to you. I hope you’ll be honest about your replies, if any.

I was born in Mauritius, you dumbarse. My first language was French. I migrated here when I was just shy of 9 years of age. I spoke only French at the time. It took me years to learn to speak English fluently, because my parents only spoke French at home and they still do. My children also speak French as a result, albeit broken French, to speak to my parents and my family, because they believe that it is vitally important to be bilingual.

And if you even think Google translate gives such an accurate translation, I'd suggest you put it through and try it. Nowhere close.

 

[Robittybob1]

It's not just a Syrian problem, that's the thing.
Syria caused the attack but they are not alone. They have many who are not Syrian, ready to fight alongside them and who support what they did. That's the problem.

It still can be stopped. Everyone stop. Bells here could do it herself. She'd just say "Stop" Even Dmoe listened. That's all we need is a whole lot more all yelling out "Stop".

Thanks for the support. I was getting quite agitated here.

 

[Robittybob1]

.....
Don't take me wrongly, madam; I'm hardly the most effective person on the planet. But I'm not going to hide from that reality by calling people to prayer.

Really, before it's too late? How many dead? How is it not too late?

But, hey, let's pray.

You know what? I got a better idea, and in the long run it might be more effective than prayer.

Let's all get stoned and think happy thoughts.

I'd do that too but I don't have any on hand.

 

[wegs]

Fair enough. It's true that I don't see you asking people to petition God, as if enough of us speaking out will somehow change His mind and make Him admit He made a mistake, and then actually go so far as to correct it.

(You'll notice, for instance, that when there were only two people in the whole world, and God's experiment went wrong just the way He intended it, He didn't simply wipe them out and try again. Apparently He plotted to rape a woman and then have the Offspring tortured and executed in order to save humanity from sin. Which, of course, only reminds that there really is no point in trying to use numbers to change God's mind. The faithful are already saved, and the rest shall suffer according to His will.)



The answer depends on the circumstance.

In some cases, for instance, it's because of religious people.

In others, it's because of religion.

Yes, the site has always generally favored atheistic rhetoric, but, hey, I never figured out what was so objectionable about not being part of the overwhelming majority of the world where you have to hear about this shit and not call people out for being completely full of it. That is to say, you know, people of faith have most of the world. What's wrong with asking them to abide by others' customs from time to time?

Look, if people want to talk theology, history, philosophy, psychology, or other such aspects of God and faith, that's one thing. But moronic evangelism is entirely another.

Why is it okay to insult people who believe in God? Well, I don't know, are all people of faith prone to idiotic statements like our neighbor made? And in asking that question, and allowing for a real answer, please realize that I am excluding from evidence the notion of how familiar our neighbor's moronic call to prayer is. That is to say, I'm ignoring the thousands of times people around me have called for prayer instead of doing something useful. Somebody's sick? Let us pray. The cat is missing? Let us pray. Is my daughter an alcoholic? Let me pray about it. (For the record, apparently that particular gentleman is finally figuring out that he and God had some sort of misunderstanding on the general condition of his daughter's psychological health. You know, only years too late—five? ten? twenty? depends on how you measure it—but, you know, praise Jesus for showing him the light, and now, let us pray.)

Don't take me wrongly, madam; I'm hardly the most effective person on the planet. But I'm not going to hide from that reality by calling people to prayer.

Really, before it's too late? How many dead? How is it not too late?

But, hey, let's pray.

You know what? I got a better idea, and in the long run it might be more effective than prayer.

Let's all get stoned and think happy thoughts.

[video=youtube;galM_kZQNME]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=galM_kZQNME[/video]​

Bla bla bla ... P
No seriously...
You make valid points...
Let me say this, I'm not about preaching and all that. I find that irritating myself. But, just could do without the broad brush jabs that pop up for no apparent reason. Ok, 'nuff said.

I do like your last sentence/closing idea, though. That night be your most brilliant line yet. hehe

 

[Bells]

Bells, you are fast! I posted my Post #701 at 10:00 pm.

You read my Post, then composed and typed your response to youreyes. Then you composed and typed your response to me.
You were able to do all that, and still be able to get your Post #702 Posted by 10:01 pm.

That is fast.
In the event that I didn't get to my point fast enough or state it clearly enough...I will restate my opening statement!

Bells, you are fast! I posted my Post #701 at 10:00 pm.

Read the edit time.

---

Oh, and the "Mother Russia subservience" thing was awesomely funny. That kind of thing you can definitely post more of, please. Thanks.

Da zdravstvuet Matushka Rossiya! :rofl:

Wasn't it just?

Still wanking over Putin's nipples I take it?

---

@Wegs, Trooper and Bells

All of you seem pretty good at telling males to "stop!". How about endorsing my prayer, make it a viral prayer , send it out on Twitter , on YouTube, basically everywhere till it is heard.

"Lord Jesus,

The people all around the world would like an end to the fighting in Syria. Tell them to stop before it is too late. Tell them to stop. Both sides Lord, tell them to stop.

Amen."

Is this the point I sacrifice an animal while shouting out Praise Jeebus?

If prayer is no good sing along with the other 8 billion Earthlings please.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJwp_JCZ7Co
Mahalia Jackson & Dinah Shore - Study War No More

I know nothing about your NFL but He sure is going to make Team NZ kick the arse out of team Oracle. 2:Nil before it even starts!

Sorry, but I don't hold hands and Kumbaya either.

In case you weren't aware, I am an atheist who does not believe in God or any higher or lesser power.

---

I do believe in the power of prayer. I've asked myself where is God in this? Does he wish for mankind to sort out the problems its brought on itself? Mankind shouldn't look to God to clean up its messes, however and blame him when he won't. This pending war has been a long time in the making as are all wars. People don't care about faraway lands until something happens and they cant ignore it. But a persistent prayer asking for peace can't hurt.

If one factors in that people in Syria wanted to have the right to vote, then yes, you could say this war has been pending for a long time.

Alas, reality shows that the people in Syria simply wanted to have a say in the who governs their country and thus, took to the streets to protest peacefully. War broke out after Assad had his forces open fire on peaceful protesters.

 

[Robittybob1]

Is this the point I sacrifice an animal while shouting out Praise Jeebus?

In case you weren't aware, I am an atheist who does not believe in God or any higher or lesser power.

Just watched the News you could see it on the faces of Obama and Putin they had "Stop it " written all over their foreheads.
I felt a whole lot better by that.

I'm just asking the people of Earth to yell out "Stop" as loud as they can muster. I'm not asking anyone to believe in any God or Lord.

Just asking everyone to cry out like Bells does all the time "STOP!" and really mean it.
It is just a momentary sacrifice of normality. Lose it for a moment and yell out "STOP!"

 

[wegs]

If one factors in that people in Syria wanted to have the right to vote, then yes, you could say this war has been pending for a long time.

Alas, reality shows that the people in Syria simply wanted to have a say in the who governs their country and thus, took to the streets to protest peacefully. War broke out after Assad had his forces open fire on peaceful protesters.

I don't mean it in that way. CptBork mentioned something early in this thread that has never left my mind but I think he's right. It had to do with Russia and Syria. It was speculation on his part and may have the appearance of a conspiracy theory at first blush, but when he's around, I'll ask him to repost it because I don't want to misquote him.

My thought to it is, Syria didn't get to where they are all by their lonesome. Iran as we know is sitting back waiting to see what the US will do. As are others. It's been an ongoing chess game for many decades.

 

[Robittybob1]

Just to clear the air for a moment.

Talking Tom - for god sake stop!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi24XwXwe7M

<< block your noses.

 

[Robittybob1]

Is this the alternative?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GCSWEgZT94

 

[Balerion]

Just watched the News you could see it on the faces of Obama and Putin they had "Stop it " written all over their foreheads.
I felt a whole lot better by that.

I'm just asking the people of Earth to yell out "Stop" as loud as they can muster. I'm not asking anyone to believe in any God or Lord.

Just asking everyone to cry out like Bells does all the time "STOP!" and really mean it.
It is just a momentary sacrifice of normality. Lose it for a moment and yell out "STOP!"

More like a momentary sacrifice of sanity.

Any deity that would require such a show to prevent the death and suffering of innocents isn't a deity deserving of your worship.

 

[Tiassa]

This and That

Let me say this, I'm not about preaching and all that. I find that irritating myself. But, just could do without the broad brush jabs that pop up for no apparent reason. Ok, 'nuff said.

While we're on the subject of notions we just don't get, why is it that people who don't participate in a behavior choose to feel personally offended on behalf of other people?

You're not about preaching and all that? Great. Then don't take offense because I think our neighbor came up with a really silly idea.

I've run into this before, and it never makes sense. Where in the original post you objected to is the broad brush jab? Is it the question of why people seem to think the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are some kind of democracy? That's what I don't get about your post. You choose to take offense, except it has nothing to do with you.

Really, I have no idea why people do that to themselves.

• • •​

Is this the point I sacrifice an animal while shouting out Praise Jeebus?

No, the animal sacrifices were more of an Old Testament thing, though it's true Jesus fulfilled the law, not changed it. Still, though, it's YHWH, not Jesus, who gets off on the smell of burning, sacrificed animals.

War broke out after Assad had his forces open fire on peaceful protesters.

Functionally, I think that's the problem. The problem with this, "Everyone stop it, please!" argument is that it leaves the original injustices in place, so that this whole mess has been for nothing.

Remember Clausewitz: Wars are started by the defenders. If only they would let the aggressors have their way, there would be no war.

Hence, this is all the Syrian protesters' fault; if they had just shut up about things like voting and human rights, Assad wouldn't have had to kill them.

I would also note, however, that it does little good to really argue with an outlook that says, "Mankind shouldn't look to God to clean up its messes". Remember that this whole mess is What God Wanted.

What happened at Eden was His Will. And this is the result.

You know, if you believe in those sorts of things. And remember Job: God is a coward.

What else should I tell you to remember? Oh, right. It's the weekend. Take care of your hairstyle, and wear shoes that are good for running. Oh, and don't answer your mobile phone if you're walking on the street.

Sorry ... I got to mansplaining the Bible to you, and just got carried away.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Just watched the News you could see it on the faces of Obama and Putin they had "Stop it " written all over their foreheads.
I felt a whole lot better by that.

I'm just asking the people of Earth to yell out "Stop" as loud as they can muster. I'm not asking anyone to believe in any God or Lord.

Just asking everyone to cry out like Bells does all the time "STOP!" and really mean it.
It is just a momentary sacrifice of normality. Lose it for a moment and yell out "STOP!"

Worth a try I suppose.
"STOP!"

 

[Robittybob1]

While we're on the subject of notions we just don't get, why is it that people who don't participate in a behavior choose to feel personally offended on behalf of other people?

You're not about preaching and all that? Great. Then don't take offense because I think our neighbor came up with a really silly idea.

I've run into this before, and it never makes sense. Where in the original post you objected to is the broad brush jab? Is it the question of why people seem to think the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are some kind of democracy? That's what I don't get about your post. You choose to take offense, except it has nothing to do with you.

Really, I have no idea why people do that to themselves.

• • •​

No, the animal sacrifices were more of an Old Testament thing, though it's true Jesus fulfilled the law, not changed it. Still, though, it's YHWH, not Jesus, who gets off on the smell of burning, sacrificed animals.



Functionally, I think that's the problem. The problem with this, "Everyone stop it, please!" argument is that it leaves the original injustices in place, so that this whole mess has been for nothing.

Remember Clausewitz: Wars are started by the defenders. If only they would let the aggressors have their way, there would be no war.

Hence, this is all the Syrian protesters' fault; if they had just shut up about things like voting and human rights, Assad wouldn't have had to kill them.

I would also note, however, that it does little good to really argue with an outlook that says, "Mankind shouldn't look to God to clean up its messes". Remember that this whole mess is What God Wanted.

What happened at Eden was His Will. And this is the result.

You know, if you believe in those sorts of things. And remember Job: God is a coward.

What else should I tell you to remember? Oh, right. It's the weekend. Take care of your hairstyle, and wear shoes that are good for running. Oh, and don't answer your mobile phone if you're walking on the street.

Sorry ... I got to mansplaining the Bible to you, and just got carried away.

Gosh what a lot of hidden meaning in that post.
So does the president of a country want to smash his subjects down to nought, just to stay in power? And there has to be a political settlement at some stage and it will not be for naught. So by stop I don't mean Assad forces walk back into the areas hard won by the rebels (for what they are worth, worthless piles of rubble.)
Stop and negotiate a political settlement. But any settlement needs to allow Russia to maintain its military base. It is this reason Russia supports someone they don't like either , but he gives them what they want. So is there a settlement that can guarantee Russia that? I'm sure they can work it out.

But Stop is the first thing, call a ceasefire both sides, and let peacekeepers in and negotiate.
So I don't believe what I was asking for was so unreasonable.

 

[Robittybob1]

Worth a try I suppose.
"STOP!"

Was that you and your crew Captain?

 

[Captain Kremmen]

@DMOE This was the latter part of your post:

............
....... - "The 'Big Six' arms exporters" - below -
....... - http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/big-six-arms-exporters-2012-06-11

....... - "The Arms Trade is Big Business" - below -
....... - http://www.globalissues.org/article...big-business#GlobalArmsSalesBySupplierNations

....... - "Arms sales: who are the world's 100 top arms producers?" - below -
....... - http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/mar/02/arms-sales-top-100-producers

....... - "Arms industry" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry#World.27s_largest_arms_exporters

Whether or not these countries/corporations have a "vested" interest in creating or maintaining "wars"...you will have to ask them.
I do NOT "assume" nor "presume" anything at all about these countries or corporations.
I do however believe that these countries/corporations make these sales for a "profit" of some kind.

Reading those final three sentences, your point is NOT:
1. That countries or corporations have a vested interest. We'll have to ask them.
2. That you assume that countries or corporations are good, bad, or indifferent.

Your point is that they "make these sales for a "profit" of some kind."
Is that all you are trying to say?
That a business makes a profit?

I don't know what I did to deserve all the sarcasm you gave me.
I genuinely don't understand what you are getting at.

I would have thought that you meant that these corporations and countries had a vested interest in the prosecution of war,
but you expressly said that that was something you didn't mean.

 

[Robittybob1]

More like a momentary sacrifice of sanity.

Any deity that would require such a show to prevent the death and suffering of innocents isn't a deity deserving of your worship.

Sacrifice of sanity or sacrifice of normality hopefully is the same, for to be normally sane is the better state. I was getting agitated, I am here pleading for the whole world to do something insane as just yelling out "Stop!" The frustration was making me anxious.

I see some have done it. It wasn't that hard was it? It is not God that has to be persuaded but the likes of all of the US Congress and Russian Government, Assad and the leaders of the opposition, the Hezbollah, Israel, China and Iran. There are a lot of human minds to change, to make them realize the path they were on was the one leading to destruction.

Barry McGuire - Eve of Destruction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntLsElbW9Xo

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Was that you and your crew Captain?

Nay, I made the crew walk the plank remember.
After the chicken leg went missing.
'Twas me and the ship's cat.

 

[Robittybob1]

Nay, I made the crew walk the plank remember.
After the chicken leg went missing.
'Twas me and the ship's cat.

You are worse than Basher al Assad. We need to summon you to a court marshall. You can't treat your crew like that in this day and age! (I must have missed that update?)

 

[Bells]

Sacrifice of sanity or sacrifice of normality hopefully is the same, for to be normally sane is the better state. I was getting agitated, I am here pleading for the whole world to do something insane as just yelling out "Stop!" The frustration was making me anxious.

I see some have done it. It wasn't that hard was it? It is not God that has to be persuaded but the likes of all of the US Congress and Russian Government, Assad and the leaders of the opposition, the Hezbollah, Israel, China and Iran. There are a lot of human minds to change, to make them realize the path they were on was the one leading to destruction.

Barry McGuire - Eve of Destruction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntLsElbW9Xo

You have a thread in the Religion subforum where it is a constant prattle of religious music videos. Perhaps you should keep your youtube music clips and religious messages restricted to that one and the one dedicated to it in Arts and Culture.

 

[Robittybob1]

You have a thread in the Religion subforum where it is a constant prattle of religious music videos. Perhaps you should keep your youtube music clips and religious messages restricted to that one and the one dedicated to it in Arts and Culture.

So you said "stop" again. I think that "Eve of Destruction" clip was very telling. I've played it a couple of times already (has been played 2,256,919 times to date). But you are right, I won't need to do that again.

But as far as the Christian Song thread goes... that is another matter.