The sun is being proven to be non-nuclear fusion

[billvon]

Sunspots as well , since looking into the spot itself is dark

Are you crazy? Sunspots are incredibly bright; like having a thousand spotlights shining on your face. They are dark only in relation to the rest of the sun, which is like having 3000 spotlights shining in your face.

The fusion theory should have a more homogeneous distribution of energy

There is no fusion going on at the surface. Temperatures and pressures are too low.

 

[river]

Nope, I don't claim to be an expert - but I actually STUDIED atomic physics, so, yes, I and several others here know considerably more about it than you.

I see so you don't know

Very simple - that's PRECISELY what fusion DOES!!

How so...?

 

[river]

Further

So fusion works in such a way that 15% of the spectral lines can't be explained

The corona is the hotter than the surface , and there is a atmosphere of the sun that is cooler than than the surface and then we reach the corona which is hotter than the surface

So fusion explains both , then there are sunspots.....

 

[billvon]

So fusion works in such a way that 15% of the spectral lines can't be explained

No. You're not seeing the fusion. You are seeing a surface of hot gas, not fusion.

The corona is the hotter than the surface

Yep. The Earth's upper atmosphere is hotter than the lower atmosphere as well.

then there are sunspots.....

Yep. And the Earth has storms. And neither the surface of the Sun nor the surface of the Earth has any fusion going on.

 

[river]

Originally Posted by river
So fusion works in such a way that 15% of the spectral lines can't be explained

No. You're not seeing the fusion. You are seeing a surface of hot gas, not fusion.

So the spectral lines don't come from the core of the sun , at all ...?

Therefore the spectral lines tell us nothing about what is happening at the core of the sun then ?

 

[river]

The corona is the hotter than the surface

Yep. The Earth's upper atmosphere is hotter than the lower atmosphere as well.

Of course , the suns solar plasma radiation

Now what has this got to do with the suns corona ..?

 

[river]

then there are sunspots.....

Yep. And the Earth has storms. And neither the surface of the Sun nor the surface of the Earth has any fusion going on.

Of course ....your point

 

[rpenner]

So the spectral lines don't come from the core of the sun , at all ...?

Correct. Spectral lines come from quantized differences of energy between different bound systems of electromagnetic charges. In the IR, Visible, UV and X-ray spectrum, this is from molecules, ions and atoms. Fully ionized plasma and nuclear fusion with weak interactions results in continuum radiation. Some nuclear transitions result in gamma spectral lines, but these are neither expected nor observed in significant ways on the sun because the important fusion reactions happen thousands of miles below the photosphere.

Therefore the spectral lines tell us nothing about what is happening at the core of the sun then ?

Correct. They give information about density, temperature, magnetic field and chemical composition of the gas where the light originates and the gas in the line of sight.

Neutrino flux, total energy output, helioseimography, terrestrial and astronomical observations of elemental and isotopic abundance, and observation of other stars and phenomena are all lines of evidence that directly support the conclusion that the sun is heated from deep within via hydrogen to helium nuclear fusion.

 

[river]

So rpenner


What of my posts #66 and 67

 

[wellwisher]

So though, if nuclear fusion is what is happening with our sun is there 15% of the spectral lines of the sun (or 2300) not understood?
Now surely we understand nuclear fusion enough to know the consequences of this reaction. For that is alot of spectral lines that is unexplainable in the fusion model

It is not fusion that causes this anomaly, but the anomaly is connected to the material shell outside the fusion core.

In terms of density, lighter atoms can become denser, than heavier atoms, if the lighter atoms are fully ionized under extreme pressure, while the heavier atoms are only partially ionized under extreme pressures.

Density is mass/volume. The density of a small fully ionize atom, under extreme pressure is mass/nucleus volume. There is no electron space association. But a larger partially ionized atom can have more mass but also much more volume due to the space defined by even one pair of inner electrons. If the nucleus is a pea, having 2 inner electrons makes the volume a basketball. The density goes down quickly. The less dense partially ionized heavy atoms float away from the core, while the smaller ionized atoms sink for fuel.

As the heavy atoms float outward, they collect like a heat shield around the core. If the core burns hotter, this heat further ionizes the shield so it gets denser and sinks. This puts a squeeze on the diffusion of hydrogen fuel allowing the core to cool; sun spot. As the core cools, this adds electrons to the shield so it floats even higher. This makes it more permeable to fuel diffusion, so we get a core fusion spike; solar flare. The action of the shield prevents runaway fusion.

The fusion spikes, during solar flares, act like a sledge hammer pounding the shield, forming higher atoms; extra spectra.

 

[river]

Wellwisher

In terms of density, lighter atoms can become denser, than heavier atoms, if the lighter atoms are fully ionized under extreme pressure, while the heavier atoms are only partially ionized under extreme pressures.

How do you get partial ionization of the heavier atoms..?

Ionized means that what you have is electrons and protons in a fluidic plasma

 

[billvon]

So the spectral lines don't come from the core of the sun , at all ...?

Basically, no.

The core generates immense amounts of "light" in the form of gamma rays. The gases near the core are very hot, and therefore very transparent. This allows gamma rays to pass through. Once they hit the photosphere the gas is cool enough to become more opaque. This blocks the gamma rays (which is a good thing!) and heats up the photosphere to 6000 degrees. This is very hot, and the hot gas glows. THAT is the light you see.

Spectral ABSORPTION lines are caused by gases above that layer that absorb specific frequencies of light.

Therefore the spectral lines tell us nothing about what is happening at the core of the sun then ?

They tell us a lot. The spectral lines tell us what the composition of the photosphere (and the layers above that) is. This is closely related to the composition of the core where fusion is taking place - and knowing the composition of the core tells us a lot about what is happening there.

Of course , the suns solar plasma radiation

What is "solar plasma radiation?"

Of course ....your point

Both the sun and the earth have weather. Some spots are colder and some are warmer.

 

[river]

Therefore the spectral lines tell us nothing about what is happening at the core of the sun then ?

They tell us a lot. The spectral lines tell us what the composition of the photosphere (and the layers above that) is. This is closely related to the composition of the core where fusion is taking place - and knowing the composition of the core tells us a lot about what is happening there.

Yet at the same time can't explain 15% of the spectral lines of the sun

You tell me that the spectral lines tell us about the photosphere which is related to the composition of the fusion core but at the same time can't explain the unknown spectral lines

 

[billvon]

Yet at the same time can't explain 15% of the spectral lines

We have explanations for all of them. We are pretty certain of 85% of those explanations. The other 15% we aren't certain of yet, because we have very little experience with gases at those temperatures. It is difficult to do chemistry experiments at 6000K.

 

[river]

Originally Posted by river
Yet at the same time can't explain 15% of the spectral lines

We have explanations for all of them. We are pretty certain of 85% of those explanations. The other 15% we aren't certain of yet, because we have very little experience with gases at those temperatures. It is difficult to do chemistry experiments at 6000K.

Then why not look at other theories that could explain the whole of the sun more completely..?

 

[billvon]

Then why not look at other theories that could explain the whole of the sun more completely..?

We have. None of them explain it as well as the standard stellar model.

 

[river]

Originally Posted by river
Then why not look at other theories that could explain the whole of the sun more completely..?

We have. None of them explain it as well as the standard stellar model.

Well we have to think outside the box then

Eu(electric universe) can't explain the spectral lines either as far as I know

Perhaps , no not perhaps , the missing explanation of the lines is energy and/or matter we have no idea about and this is what intrigues me

It becomes a challenge to what we think we know and how we go about finding out what we are are missing and why

What angle have we missed in our understanding of the universe

 

[billvon]

Perhaps , no not perhaps , the missing explanation of the lines is energy and/or matter we have no idea about and this is what intrigues me

It becomes a challenge to what we think we know and how we go about finding out what we are are missing and why

What angle have we missed in our understanding of the universe

That is always the question! In general the answer lies in misunderstanding/lack of understanding of corner cases, and research helps clear up those corner cases. It generally does not result in the discovery of (say) a new form of matter. But you never know, which is why people are always looking into such gaps in our understanding.

 

[river]

That is always the question! In general the answer lies in misunderstanding/lack of understanding of corner cases, and research helps clear up those corner cases. It generally does not result in the discovery of (say) a new form of matter. But you never know, which is why people are always looking into such gaps in our understanding.

The key is though what direction does the research take

Does the research think outside the box or is this research in the box....

Is there ad-hocs because of the politics of money and/or peer pressure , on the theory

Thats the question

 

[billvon]

Does the research think outside the box or is this research in the box....

Both, of course. The test is not "what's in the box" but "what best explains the phenomena observed" and "what can be tested to prove that explanation."

Is there ad-hocs because of the politics of money and/or peer pressure , on the theory

There is a lot of money pressure to think outside the box. Disprove the standard stellar model and you are sure to win a Nobel and have your choice of research jobs.