the spirit of truth or deception?

TruthSeeker said:
Do we die?


Do we die?


Are we as gods?


Are we wise? Is there a difference between "knowledge" and "wisdom"? Are we completely like gods or only when it comes to knowledge? Are we ready to live forever?
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were 'we' told not to eat from the tree?
are we told that we are sinners?
are our natural instincts evil?
are we made to feel guilt about our sins?
are we offered salvation from our sins?
do guilt and fear cause confusion?
are we going to suffer an eternity for our sin?
is it a priest who 'saves' us or our Lord?
how long is eternity, how intense the pain, that i should suffer for my disbelief in this vindictive doctrine?
 
ellion said:
were 'we' told not to eat from the tree?
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Yes.

are we told that we are sinners?
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What is perfect?

are our natural instincts evil?
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What is evil? Isn't "evil" a very subjective concept?

are we made to feel guilt about our sins?
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Why would you?

are we offered salvation from our sins?
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What is salvation?

do guilt and fear cause confusion?
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Certainly.

are we going to suffer an eternity for our sin?
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Why would you?

is it a priest who 'saves' us or our Lord?
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Only you can save yourself.

how long is eternity
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Long

how intense the pain
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There is no pain.

that i should suffer for my disbelief in this vindictive doctrine?
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The warrior fights until the end, no matter how great the pain is.
Belief all by itself cannot save you.
 
[TruthSeeker]

you have not been subject to christianity to the same degree that i have or you would have understood what i was getting at with those questions.
 
No, I think I probably have been. The difference is in the way I was subjected to it and what I learnt from it.
 
TruthSeeker said:
No, I think I probably have been. The difference is in the way I was subjected to it and what I learnt from it.
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are you saying you do understand what i was getting at with those questions?
 
Well.... a lot about faith and discipline. There are also some interesting comments on compassion and, of course, a lot on altruism. Oh! And a lot about law, as well. There are also things that I simply ignore.

But I don't consider myself to be only Christian. I'm a kind of blend of Christian, Zen-Buddhist and Taoist...... :eek:
 
i have found a lot of knowledge in the book but a lot of ignorance in the church, especially about other paths and different cultures. you wouldnt be very welcome in the christian culture that i know, especially if you had an opinion of your own.
 
ellion said:
any thoughts on these points from genesis this must be as old as the book itself but id like to know what people think.

1 it was god that lied 'for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die'

2 the serpent told the truth 'ye shall not surely die'

3 the sepernt told another truth 'the day ye eat thereof your eyes shall be opened and ye shall be as gods knowing good and evil'

4 god banished 'the man' for becoming wise and to prevent him from becoming immortal 'behold he has become as one of us now, to know good and evil: and now lest he put forth his hand and and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.'
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Dear ellion,

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Titus 1:2 of the King James Version of the Bible.

ellion said:
the serpent told the truth 'ye shall not surely die'
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Satan told half truth.

ellion said:
the sepernt told another truth 'the day ye eat thereof your eyes shall be opened and ye shall be as gods knowing good and evil'
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Satan told mixed truth.

Compare:
Psalms 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psalms 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

God banished 'the man of earth" because he had transgressed the commandment of his Creator.
 
if that serpent was not part of the creation of god, there are a number of problems that arise.
of whose creation was that seprent a part?
who created that, which created that creation?
why was that serpent in the creation of god? (the purpose)
how was that serpent in the creation of god? (the permit)
 
ellion said:
if that serpent was not part of the creation of god, there are a number of problems that arise.
of whose creation was that seprent a part?
who created that, which created that creation?
why was that serpent in the creation of god? (the purpose)
how was that serpent in the creation of god? (the permit)
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I can`t answer your hypothetical "if" biblically speaking.
 
Why don't we get the new Pope to open up the Vatican vaults and publish every document contained therin online? That might add an interesting new dimension to circular debates like these.
 
enton,
you said above that serpent is not part of gods creation so how is it a hypothetical question?


superluminal, you use the phrase "my god" how has that become such an inherent part of your psyche that as an expression it seems so natural?
 
ellion:

superluminal, you use the phrase "my god" how has that become such an inherent part of your psyche that as an expression it seems so natural?
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It's a crime I know. We pick up certain habits from youth that are very hard to break. And I use it here knowing full well the irony. I also say "god bless you" when someone sneezes, if I'm not paying attention to myself. I also say goddamn it to hell, Jesus fucking Christ, Christ on a Stick, Oh my fucking god... All sorts of variations.

Lately I've taken to this sort of thing because it seems so appropriate:

God<sup>&reg;</sup>

and

The Christ&trade;
 
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