The Reason Why No Open Contact Yet

Cris

Cris

In search of Immortality
Valued Senior Member
The reason why no open contact yet.

I think it highly probable that other life has evolved on other worlds and that we have been visited and surveyed. But why haven’t we been openly contacted yet. I think because our intelligence is too low and we would have difficulty understanding their form of life.

However, I believe things are about to change. Please read this carefully, if you have not seen this before then you might be surprised.

It has been carefully estimated by a number of leading scientists that the rate of development of computing power will give us computers in equal power to the human brain by 2020. By 2030 they will reach desktop size affordability. There are now active projects throughout the world preparing for this eventuality with the intention of being able to scan the human brain and upload a digital equivalent into suitable computer architecture. At this point the human race will have begun to make the transition from a biological form to a mechatronic form. This is a major evolutionary step and it signals other major changes, e.g. continuing rapid increases in intelligence and memory, no further reliance on oxygen rich atmosphere, capable of rapid acceleration more appropriate for space exploration, able to happily exist on planets that would have atmospheres considered hostile and poisonous to humans.

When we make this leap, and it seems inevitable that it will happen rather than if, then I think we will begin to understand the probable other life forms that have visited us – which might also be mechatronic in nature. Two-way communication between us can then be by electronic images transmitted via high bandwidth connection or radio, with no need for very slow verbal language.

I think we are at the beginning of a massive series of evolutionary changes that have probably already occurred with other more advanced lifeforms. I suspect they have been waiting for us to reach a minimum level where contact between us would be meaningful.

For more information on uploading and other such philosophies see www.transhumanism.com and for the latest theory of computer power see http://transhumanist.com/volume1/moravec.htm

So do you think this makes sense?

Have fun
Cris
 
Nice hypothesis, but it doesn't explain a lot of things. Do you know how it figures in with abductions? Same thing with the standard "grey" format, as they are the leading EBE's, and they don't seem all that mechatronic. As with computers reaching human intelligence, I don't doubt that, but do you have a hypothesis for the uploading process date? I'm not sure that it would survive society, it's not likely that people would react well upon the news that they've become obsoulete. Just my opinion

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I wish that for every dollar I spend, that I would gain another dollar, because then yippee! I'd get my money back.
 
Hi Shadowflame,

I really don't know anything about the Alien issues. I don't event understand your terminology.

My idea was really based on massive differences in intelligence. For example suppose with our current level of intelligence we were able to visit other planets and discovered one inhabited by apes as the dominant species. How interested would we be in making contact and trying to explain to the apes who we were? I think we might just abduct a few for scientific study and agree to wait until they evolved further.

My proposal is identical to highly intelligent aliens discovering us. They have nothing to gain from us until we have matured.

UPLOAD DATES

There are two primary parallel research activities. The first is Neuroscience, with the intention of understanding sufficient about the human brain so that it can be accurately scanned - both for neural as well as chemical and hormonal activity. The second primary activity is computer processor technology.

The estimate is that by 2030 both paths of research will converge and result in affordable full upload capability.

At the present time the scanning methods do not provide apropriate resolution and the best methods are also destructive. E.g The brain has to be sliced very finely so that a high power electron microscope can scan the tissue without loss of information. The subject human is clearly dead at this point. If the process fails during scanning then you are screwed. It is hoped that non-destructive mechanisms will be devised. The problem there is that there would not be a clean transition from human being to mechatronic being. You would then exist in two forms.

So I kinda plan to help out a bit - finish my MSc first then proceed to a doctorate in an 'upload' direction. I hope the 2030 date doesn't shift too much, as it is I will be 78 by that time - I just need to stay alive and stay healthy for another 30 years.

Thanks for asking.
Cris
 
Yeeps, I'm not sure if this will be a good thing. What if something Matrix-esque happened, and the machines tried to go against us. Seems like the proggession might lead to something like that. Should we allow ourselves to die out, in the name of more efficent progress? Seems like it won't be good for the humans left.

Before I was just saying that mechs visiting us didn't fit in with current UFO lore. I believe that "robot" encounters only acount for less than 6% of sightings, and thats when they're grouped up with monsters and apes according to The UFO book. Most aliens seem more humanoid in looks. Just so you know, Greys, the most common type of being seen in abductions, are the short green-grey ones with the big eyes and slanted heads. EBE stands for Extra-Biological Entity.

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I wish that for every dollar I spend, that I would gain another dollar, because then yippee! I'd get my money back.
 
Thanks for the lesson Shadowflame, much appreciated.

And you are right we have the ability to really screw things up as well as make incredible progress.

As for a mix of humans and mechs - yes I think there will be problems like racism and lack of tolerance etc. If we all become mechs then I can see argumants like - I have the latest CPU upgrade so I must be more intelligent than you. Somehow, I don't think 'human' nature is going to change very much for a while yet, whether bio or mech.

Have fun
Cris
 
What do you think about nano-technology? It'
s in the same avenue as mechanology(is that the right word?) but more in the lines of personal upgrade. For example, you could have them in your bloodstream cleaning out junk and assisting with oxygen transportation, augment your senses, strength, etc. Could it be an alternative branch to mechs?

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I wish that for every dollar I spend, that I would gain another dollar, because then yippee! I'd get my money back.
 
Hi all,

Nobody has mentioned this yet so I guess I'm gonna have to. The one BIG issue that hasn't been discussed in relation to mech upgrades of humanity is SEX. Sorry I had to bring it up but if we were to upload the entire human brain and hormonal activity etc then it would include sex drive. I think this issue would cause alot of faliure...you'd be by all intents and purposes imortal BUT also lonley starved of physical contact. You can't deny that ALL mammals (sp?) share that need for contact it's a huge part of us.

Thats why I believe it would be safer to use genetic/nano-tech manipulation to extend a biological existance. Or a cyborg of sorts...who knows, regardless it would take longer then 30 years for humanity to let go of physical contact.

Now with that said I have no intention of dieing. I believe that in the near future we'll be able to extend our lives to say 150-200 years...by the time I'm about 150 I'd say the WHOLE age issue will be solved and we'll have the choice of imortality.

[This message has been edited by Rambler (edited October 09, 2000).]
 
Hi again Rambler,

Sex and physical contact is definitely an issue that certainly can’t be overlooked. But sex (specifically for reproduction) will be a relic of evolution where the only reason is to ensure survival of the species. When we approach a state of near or actual immortality we will not need or want to be burdened by animal instincts as the new direction will be the survival of the individual.

But touch, massage, and sex, all generate hormonal, chemical, and nerve responses that we experience as pleasure. Denial of such experiences does cause undesirable psychological damage, although many voluntary celibates might disagree. However, by the time we can upload we will also understand how the brain connects and communicates with all body parts and the hormonal and chemical messaging mechanisms must be also fully understood. In the beginning we will not want to make adjustments to the basic human psyche, the transition itself will be sufficient shock, which will keep psychiatrists in business for a considerable time. So although I don’t think we would add mechanical genitals we should be able to add external ‘touch-pads’ strategically placed that would generate the equivalent of pleasure. The choice of masturbation or excitation by others would remain essentially the same as it is now although with quite different techniques.

I completely agree that if we can survive biologically for the next, 100 years say, then aging research will have progressed to the point where that boundary will be pushed out indefinitely. The downside of a bio solution to aging is that it will take a long time to grow and evolve larger brains whereas the electronic route will likely be much faster. An electronic solution also has the advantage of digital backups. If your electronic brain is severely damaged in an accident then it will be relatively simple to purchase a new brain and have your last backup restored. That is not likely to be anywhere near so easy, if ever, with a biological body.

So once you can overcome the probably overwhelming desires to retain your existing bio form you will find a mechatronic existence has incredible advantages.

Stay cool.
Cris

PS. I noticed in an earlier post of yours an interest in the aging issue. We share the same strong feelings - I also have no intention of dying and I plan to do everything I can to survive now that real solutions appear so near.



[This message has been edited by Cris (edited October 10, 2000).]
 
Shadowflame,

Yes I keep bumping into nanotechnology but haven't looked at it closely yet. It has been proposed as a potential non-destructive solution to scanning the brain for uploads, but as yet this looks unlikely to be practical.

I don't know enough yet to add any real comment of value, but it looks interesting.

Cheers
Cris
 
Hi everyone,
I think once machines evolve and are like us they will take over. They would have no reason to keep us around and look at us inferior. It would be the end of mankind.
 
Is anyone here familiar with Asimovs Robot novels?

If so, dont you think any person stupid enough to create a self-aware machine would instill something similar to the 3 laws of robots, or whatever they were called?
 
Hey guys,

I think you might have missed a subtle point here.

The machines will be us. It is our brains that would be transferred into machine bodies, where we would retain all our old memories and emotions, but we would have the chances for continuous CPU and memory upgrades.

Now we could also allow pure AI machines as well, but we would be able to keep pace with them. They would simply be other sentient lifeforms.

Hope that helps.

And note the Mind Uploading research is well underway.

Have fun
Cris
 
As to your original que: "Why No Open Contact Yet"...
I will sum it up in three words.....

"Arrogant Control Freaks"
 
yo, me back

and hi time

The reason for no contact, the shiting their kegs, thats if they have an ass at all, or even where kegs (to you american kegs=pants)
 
Hi everyone:

I basically dropped out of the forum for two years and now back browsing what is new. A lot has chaged including adding username and passwords to get in. I wonder in 50 years where this forum will be or 100, 1000... If you think Internet is a big place, imagine the galaxy.

I do like the idea of merging computers and biology (Bioinformatics). Who knows what type of entity will emerge! Natural evolution progresses slowly until a radical break in the evolution (it is still natural though). We are at the very cusp of such break point.

My sincere hope is that we humans need to improve our brain functions first before we are ready to upload our database to a computer. We should be able to biologically improve such that all of us can have photographic memory, recall visual events, fix body's damage parts to prestine conditions, duplicate DNA without loss of information, have access to hormone and chemical levels in a conscious way...

The future will be more like the movie Terminator than a single chip becoming sentient. That is someone will write a program that uses all the computers hooked to the internet to become self-aware. Either that or developing a technology to upload ones brain to a multi-petabyte machine.

Either way, managing complexity and knowledge that will grow exponentially will be the most challenge...
 
Dear Cris ;
I had visions...
Check this at my website : 'Veins' project a music tribute to H.R. GIGER "Alien".
Check out the Alien Brain development part. Pass my Biography as an artist...: http://damienveen.com
Your idea on uploading our brains in a computer and then a technologically developed machine : to become a kind of terminator or robocop ; is PURE EVIL.
Listen to me these 'God's Machinas' (smashig pumpkins) are made at God's image. This (our) biological body allows us to feel the nature ; caress and even make love and feel one another's warmth and flesh ; blood pressure is emotional my friend ; a wet pussy or an ejaculation or a kiss is what life is made of so far for us humans : man and woman ; "Thru this architect's eye" (D.Bowie). How can you consider that ? Recreating us in a form that never will be humanity again !! What a complete mistake my friend. It leads to unsanity and demonic power what you believe to be the future ... Trust me our re-creation be different : our souls are energy ; Einstein did just try to hide it with some false principle that be discovered soon - maybe because the israëlit population has a revenge to take with their waited Messiah. This energy won't be quantified as you said but transfered... The future can be very different : what if our seed be double, not reproductive one day ; and we reincarnate in cloned bodies instead of metal gear...
Remember we are made at GOD's image and god won't let us recreate ourselfs as you said...

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Dear Cris ;
I had visions...
Check this at my website : 'Veins' project a music tribute to H.R. GIGER "Alien".
Check out the Alien Brain development part. Pass my Biography as an artist...: http://damienveen.com
Your idea on uploading our brains in a computer and then a technologically developed machine : to become a kind of terminator or robocop ; is PURE EVIL.
Listen to me these 'God's Machinas' (smashig pumpkins) are made at God's image. This (our) biological body allows us to feel the nature ; caress and even make love and feel one another's warmth and flesh ; blood pressure is emotional my friend ; a wet pussy or an ejaculation or a kiss is what life is made of so far for us humans : man and woman ; "Thru this architect's eye" (D.Bowie). How can you consider that ? Recreating us in a form that never will be humanity again !! What a complete mistake my friend. It leads to unsanity and demonic power what you believe to be the future ... Trust me our re-creation be different : our souls are energy ; Einstein did just try to hide it with some false principle that be discovered soon - maybe because the israëlit population has a revenge to take with their waited Messiah. This energy won't be quantified as you said but transfered... The future can be very different : what if our seed be double, not reproductive one day ; and we reincarnate in cloned bodies instead of metal gear...
Remember we are made at GOD's image and god won't let us recreate ourselfs as you said...

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