The Real Story of Jesus Christ

contradictory stories? what fundemental contradictions are you talking about which relate remotly to their motivation for writing their stories down?
When you have multiple accounts of a story 100 years after the fact there are bound to be some discrephencies. That means they are third or fourth parties to the story.
made person up? Jesus is recorded by christians, Romans, and Jews.
There are no Roman records. There is a wealth of christian records (duh! they would be the ones to invent the man). You are incorrect in your pluralization of "Jews;" instead there is but one Jewish record of Jesus. It is a footnote in a history of the Jews (title escapes me now) about a small cult within the Jewish community. None of this proves that he existed. We know that Caesar existed because of the very thorough records of the Romans. Meticulous + agreement in all sources=truth. None of the Jesus myths have any of that equation.
the probability of these people [authors] all having the same imaginary friend?
What if I told one person and they believed in my imaginary friend. Then they told others until it became a cult. Wouldn't you say that might take 70-100 years before it caught on?

I think that a Jesus did exist. I do not think this person could cast magic, and we know for sure that if he did exist he never had more than 15 followers. He was probably the result of a marital affair. The only thing that he did that is plausable is knocking over a money changers table and being executed.
 
Teg wrote:

... there is but one Jewish record of Jesus. It is a footnote in a history of the Jews (title escapes me now) about a small cult within the Jewish community. None of this proves that he existed.
Josephus

Antiquities 18.3.3. "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day."

Antiquities 20.9.1. "And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king, desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrim without his consent. Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest."

-- see Testimonium Flavium
As noted in Kirby's excellent site, there is good reason to believe that the first is a partial or complete interpolation.
 
!!!!!???!!!!????!???

I cant beleive that u dare to write things like that!? Do u think god will come down and SHOW u that he exists because of what u have written, and then u will beleive because u know!!?? Have u even read the bible?? How can jesus be some kind of scamming genius/madman when he came back from the dead!?? Over 500 people saw him walking around the streets after he had been killed. Also, other people were tortured and killed withought refuting what they had seen! Why would they die for a lie!?? Its u who issues propaganda. I bet ull even start to now say that they all were just saying it because they wanted their religion to carry on yeah? They died without refuting it so people in the future would beleive in it and therefore, follow thier religion. That they died for this. Have u ever thought that it might have actually happened!!??

p.s U dont want to start an arguement with what uve written!? Well maybe u should consider people who might beleive in it. U have attacked thier beliefs and laughed at their faith!! U should be careful what u write/say!!! (this is not a threat.) i would love to know if uve ever looked at the bible. BTW. How old are u??
 
p.s.
you can awake after you are thought to be dead from others

head contusia, shock, faint etc etc

it's quite common to wake people after death nowadays - and noone says them to be gods
 
I cant beleive that u dare to write things like that!?

I cant beleive it either.

Do u think god will come down and SHOW u that he exists because of what u have written, and then u will beleive because u know!!?? Have u even read the bible?? How can jesus be some kind of scamming genius/madman when he came back from the dead!??

What makes you think Jesus came back from the dead? Because the Bible says so?

Well, my little sister has a book about this kid whose parents were killed by an evil wizard, but he amazingly survives and becomes a wizard himself.

Over 500 people saw him walking around the streets after he had been killed.

Harry Potter has lots of friends who saw him do various magic tricks.

Also, other people were tortured and killed withought refuting what they had seen! Why would they die for a lie!??

I'm willing to die to affirm the truth of athiesm. Ergo, there is no God.

How many people died for Communism? How many soultherners died to defend their "right" to keep slaves? You think their deaths were pleasent?

p.s U dont want to start an arguement with what uve written!? Well maybe u should consider people who might beleive in it. U have attacked thier beliefs and laughed at their faith!! U should be careful what u write/say!!! (this is not a threat.) i would love to know if uve ever looked at the bible. BTW. How old are u??

Deal with it, honey. People will laugh at you. This is called life.

As for being careful what you write, I wouldn't issue threats.
 
laugh and world will laugh with you
cry - and world will laugh even louder

forgot where I read this
 
</body></html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body>Xev, I must say that you've really outdone yourself this time.

Pete-- you have the logic + reasoning capabilities of a really, really, really high amœba.
 
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How can jesus be some kind of scamming genius/madman when he came back from the dead!?? Over 500 people saw him walking around the streets after he had been killed.

Please tell me how exactly, without TV and newspaper photos, hundreds of people were able to recognise him? Are Elvis sightings also true? (Just a thought).


Also, other people were tortured and killed withought refuting what they had seen! Why would they die for a lie!??

Perhaps because other people lied? Like the witches in the middle ages, and the Salem witch hunts of the 1690s, they died because someone had an agenda for power and wanted them to die, regardless. And how do you know they didn't refute that they'd seen.

On the other hand, we could follow your thinking and say, Guess they really were witches, because they died, huh? huh?
 
odin:

Aww! You like me! You really like me!

Pete-- you have the logic + reasoning capabilities of a really, really, really high amœba.

Good one, GB!

You know, I would die to defend the truth of Great Cthulhu. Does that mean He exists?
 
p_ete2001 wrote:

i would love to know if uve ever looked at the bible. BTW. How old are u??
The answers are "yes" and "57 next month" respectively.

Your remaining comments/questions were a bit incoherent.
 
Truth Seeker would have said that truth the exists

where is he, damn:(


oh, and I didn't even mention the possibility that the rising wrom the dead was a fake, because they won't believe in it also.

and this is another likable possibility


*I just love Pete's grammar
he must be a new born teen american christian
 
1. im not american
2.im not a teen
3.i was writing fast.dont care if my grammArs BAD. u must have understood it anyway

I dont think that jesus just fainted :-s he was stabbed in the side with a spear AFTER all of the other stuff (crucifixion etc)
i cant beleive ur all even argueing over whether jesus even existed!! I think christianity is based on a little emore than harry potter :confused:
You know, I would die to defend the truth of Great Cthulhu. Does that mean He exists?

I would bet all the money in the world that u wouldnt!!!!!!!

cant be bothered replying to the rest. (all talking cr*p anyway)

So u all think that it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE for jesus to come back from the dead!!?? I suppose if id have told u all that a massive universe could actually exist that was so big, u couldnt even imagine its size and all of the things in it. Noones knows where it came from, what we are doing here. We live on a tiny planet in the middle of nowhere. It circles a big ball of fire and so do many other 'big rocks'. Our planet has its own little moon that circles it. God knows what else is out there and u refuse to beleieve that it is possible, for someone to come back from the dead!!?? Esp. Somene who died for his beleif in god.

Let me just say this. Either view, atheism/religion is based on faith. Neither can prove that a god does/doesnt exist. But!!!!.........how can so many people from different continents who never even knew the other existed, record similar beliefs i.e. that a supreme being exists. There are loads of different religions. Are they all making it up!!??
 
..how can so many people from different continents who never even knew the other existed, record similar beliefs i.e. that a supreme being exists. There are loads of different religions. Are they all making it up!!??
yes- they all are made up.

it is to our nature to explain natural phenomena
if we can't explain, we think of an explanation- it has always been like that- from the most primitive tribes (many spirits for each - lightning, sea, water, storm), to more advanced civilizations (greeks- only some dozen of gods), to our time - not so many religions (4big) and small amount of gods, which over time explain even less and less.

There will always be a place for god, but that's not the question or answer.

the thing is that- through time gods/supernatural beings explain less and less, they become not needed and so many stop to believe in them. It's been a movement to this dirrection since the first sacriface

there really are no gods- there is only our will to explain things which we can't explain with our current level of technology/science


as for the nowaday believers

"After Buddha was dead, his shadow was still shown for centuries in a cave--a tremendous, gruesome shadow. God is dead; but given the way of men, there may still be caves for thousands of years in which his shadow will be shown.--And we--we still have to vanquish his shadow, too."

--Friedrich Nietzsche
(thanx Xev)


btw- from where are you from then
 
pete:

1. im not american
2.im not a teen

Hey, did I ask a/s/l ? No.

I dont think that jesus just fainted :-s he was stabbed in the side with a spear AFTER all of the other stuff (crucifixion etc)
i cant beleive ur all even argueing over whether jesus even existed!! I think christianity is based on a little emore than harry potter

Well, Harry Potter is explicitly fiction. Perhaps the disclaimer page to the Bible got lost over the years. :p

I would bet all the money in the world that u wouldnt!!!!!!!

Oh I would. I am high priestess of the Terrible Old One, and my life means very little to me anyways. I think this would be a very funny way to die.

So u all think that it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE for jesus to come back from the dead!!??

No, only extrordinarily unlikely. Cthulhu could exist, Harry Potter could exist, hell, even God might exist. But there's utterly no evidence.

I suppose if id have told u all that a massive universe could actually exist that was so big, u couldnt even imagine its size and all of the things in it. Noones knows where it came from, what we are doing here. We live on a tiny planet in the middle of nowhere. It circles a big ball of fire and so do many other 'big rocks'. Our planet has its own little moon that circles it.

There is evidence for these things. There is no evidence that God exists or that Jesus rose from the dead.

God knows what else is out there and u refuse to beleieve that it is possible, for someone to come back from the dead!!?? Esp. Somene who died for his beleif in god.

Think of it this way - humans have existed for half a million years. We have been recording history for 6000 years. In those 6000 years, there are only a few accounts of people or Gods rising from the dead.

You can draw the conclusion...

Let me just say this. Either view, atheism/religion is based on faith. Neither can prove that a god does/doesnt exist.

Very few athiests claim that God absolutely does not exist. In any case, it is more logical to not actively believe in God.

But!!!!.........how can so many people from different continents who never even knew the other existed, record similar beliefs i.e. that a supreme being exists. There are loads of different religions. Are they all making it up!!??

All humans have fathers and mothers, do they not? As Freud noted, God is the ultimate paternal symbol.

Furthermore, religions are very diverse. Are Yahwah and Aphrodite really that simular? So simular that you can say they are descriptions of the same thing?

I think not.
 
No, only extrordinarily unlikely. Cthulhu could exist, Harry Potter could exist, hell, even God might exist. But there's utterly no evidence.
NO! that is why it is a question of faith.
There is evidence for these things. There is no evidence that God exists or that Jesus rose from the dead.
Show me proof, evidence that u love the people closest to u!
Think of it this way - humans have existed for half a million years. We have been recording history for 6000 years. In those 6000 years, there are only a few accounts of people or Gods rising from the dead.
and out of everyone that has existed, how many believed so much that they were prepared to die for him!?? 1 or 2!!
the thing is that- through time gods/supernatural beings explain less and less, they become not needed and so many stop to believe in them. It's been a movement to this dirrection since the first sacriface
and since people have started to follow god less and less, wouldnt u say that the world had become a more morally corrupt one!!?
btw- from where are you from then
im from england. u?

^^^^^^^^^ idiot! :p
As Freud noted, God is the ultimate paternal symbol.
who cares what frued thinks. he was a loon :p
 
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Pete:
NO! that is why it is a question of faith.

Exactly. Which is illogical.

Show me proof, evidence that u love the people closest to u!

Who says I "love" anyone? Do you even know what love is?

This is off topic. In any case, I've never claimed to love anyone- at least not to you, and certianly not on these boards.

But Christianity does claim that Jesus rose from the dead.

They've made a claim, now the burden of proof is on them.

and out of everyone that has existed, how many believed so much that they were prepared to die for him!?? 1 or 2!!

Somewhere between 750,000 to 1,250,000 humans died in the American Civil war in order to defend their "right" to enslave other humans.

I do not believe in slavery, pete. I think it is an evil thing - and I rarely use the word evil. I apply negative value judgements to the word even less often.

The fact that people died for Christianity does not make it true. How many people were martyred rather than be forcibly converted to Christianity? How many lie "raped, crushed, broken...Neath the Christian war machine"

Do you want me to find the exact number of humans who were slaughtered in the name of your God?

According to some estimates, 1 million Nordic/Pagans died at the hands of the early Christians. This is likely inflated, but do you want me to find how many people were murdered in the name of your God?

I do hope you realize that this does not disprove your God, either. Whether people are willing to die for something has nothing to do with whether it is true.

and since people have started to follow god less and less, wouldnt u say that the world had become a more morally corrupt one!!?

Morality is subjective, thus this statement is moot. Even if morality was absolute, you've shown no evidence that the world is less moral.

If anything, it is more moral now that people are not killing quite as much in the name of your God. :rolleyes:
 
ReasonableDoubt

Thank you very much. There is actually a site dedicated to this:

http://www.atheists.org/church/contradictions.html

Pete needs a reality check:

I dont think that jesus just fainted :-s he was stabbed in the side with a spear AFTER all of the other stuff (crucifixion etc)
i cant beleive ur all even argueing over whether jesus even existed!! I think christianity is based on a little emore than harry potter
You base all of this on a single written text. Nothing verifiable, only one side of the story, recognizable embelishments and all, you buy this load of garbage...that is a sad thought.
So u all think that it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE for jesus to come back from the dead!!??
As others have said it is possible, just not likely. And not for any phenomenal period as it was stated in the bible.
I suppose if id have told u all that a massive universe could actually exist that was so big, u couldnt even imagine its size and all of the things in it. Noones knows where it came from, what we are doing here.
It didn't come from anywhere, it has always occupied this, itself. Sure it might have been something else, such as planes of multiphased dimensionality. We have some idea of the composition from the light we get from distant stars.
We live on a tiny planet in the middle of nowhere
Actually we don't live in the middle of nowhere, because this is somewhere.
It circles a big ball of fire and so do many other 'big rocks'.
You are of course referring to our sun. Actually it doesn't circle but rather orbit in an elliptical pattern.
God knows what else is out there and u refuse to beleieve that it is possible, for someone to come back from the dead!!??
Those objects all follow the laws of physics. We are not immune to these laws. People, however, can be tricked. What about all those in Mexico who have visions of Mary in a wall, a tree, or any other inanimate object you can think of?
Either view, atheism/religion is based on faith
Atheism is a neutral assertion. It is the acceptance of that which can be proved. If God had proof this would change and atheism would instead require faith. No faith is needed to believe in that which is known.
Neither can prove that a god does/doesnt exist
That's not our burden. Any positive assertion requires proof. The negative assertion is held until that proof is found.
how can so many people from different continents who never even knew the other existed, record similar beliefs i.e. that a supreme being exists. There are loads of different religions. Are they all making it up!!??
The roots of almost all of these can be traced to Sumeria. Also we extrapolate a deity from many different cultures who believe in what is closer to voodoo. The deity is not so much a universal concept as much a universally copied method of control. It is the most efficient means to convince the poor to remain so. Do kind acts and you will be rewarded in the next life- nevermind that all of the have are amoral beasts.
 
If anything, it is more moral now that people are not killing quite as much in the name of your God.
firsty, it is not my god. am not actually a christian. i do belive however that the whole of the bible should be studied before a decision is made. U would never look at a piece of food and say 'it tastes like sh*t' without even trying it would u!? Have u read all of the bible? or are u too scared that u would actually begin to believe?
I do hope you realize that this does not disprove your God, either. Whether people are willing to die for something has nothing to do with whether it is true
If someone is willing willing to die for their children, out of love, that doesnt prove that love exists??! Im not saying that willing to die for god mean thst he does exist. im just saying that someone must be so sure of it. U would call this madness right?
Morality is subjective, thus this statement is moot. Even if morality was absolute, you've shown no evidence that the world is less moral
i agree.But we do all have a similar knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. We all know that killing is wrong right! So there is some grounding in morality. I cannot prove that the world is less moral no. Maybe it is just communication and awareness that has gone up. But let me say this. I think it is safe quite safe to say that if there isnt a god, then the universe etc came from chance, coincidence. The theory that states this is called the chaos theory. Does the universe look like its in chaos to u!? The orbits of the planets, night and day. Everything works harmoniously. maybe it has taken lots of time to fall into this pattern and therefore allow life to flourish but i think that the fact that life even exists, shows that chaos is not really an acceptable theory (to me anyway lol). While it may be argued that chaos theory explains the creation of the universe and not the present one, chaos is destructive in nature. It does not create! Something must have come out of nothing.
I have more arguements for ur other points (well half ones anyway lol) but im tired so im going to bed. i will try to reply tomorrow.

It didn't come from anywhere, it has always occupied this, itself. Sure it might have been something else, such as planes of multiphased dimensionality
crap! if it has always occupied itself then why is it quite confidently known that the universe is expanding?
Actually we don't live in the middle of nowhere, because this is somewhere.You are of course referring to our sun. Actually it doesn't circle but rather orbit in an elliptical pattern
Ok smart arse. (the sun is still a ball of fire :p
What about all those in Mexico who have visions of Mary in a wall, a tree, or any other inanimate object you can think of?
these people are also loons :D

Will continue tomorrow (today lol) My brain hurts. :(
 
Pete:
firsty, it is not my god. am not actually a christian. i do belive however that the whole of the bible should be studied before a decision is made. U would never look at a piece of food and say 'it tastes like sh*t' without even trying it would u!? Have u read all of the bible? or are u too scared that u would actually begin to believe?

I've read the whole Bible, and have studied many aspects of it in depth. I'd advise you to peruse the Lucifer thread, the "Rape in the Bible" thread, and my own "Suicide and the Bible" thread if you want confirmation of the depth of my knowledge.

It's rather silly to accuse a humanities nerd of not having read and studied the Bible, don't you think?

If someone is willing willing to die for their children, out of love, that doesnt prove that love exists??! Im not saying that willing to die for god mean thst he does exist. im just saying that someone must be so sure of it.

And what does it prove that someone is sure of God? It proves not a thing.

U would call this madness right?

Not really. Someone is willing to die for an ideal. I think it is beautiful.

I would die for any one of my ideals. If I am mad - well, the difference between me and a madman is that I am sane. ;)

i agree.But we do all have a similar knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. We all know that killing is wrong right!

I do not know this. I would regard many forms of killing (vigilanteism, for instance) as commendable, in certain instances.

So there is some grounding in morality. I cannot prove that the world is less moral no. Maybe it is just communication and awareness that has gone up.

*Smiles*

I'm glad you see this now.

But let me say this. I think it is safe quite safe to say that if there isnt a god, then the universe etc came from chance, coincidence. The theory that states this is called the chaos theory. Does the universe look like its in chaos to u!?

Pardon? I think you are confusing chaos theory, emergence, the second law of thermodynamics and the big bang theory.

The orbits of the planets, night and day.

Are less stable than you think. How much astrophysics do you know?

Everything works harmoniously. maybe it has taken lots of time to fall into this pattern and therefore allow life to flourish but i think that the fact that life even exists, shows that chaos is not really an acceptable theory (to me anyway lol). While it may be argued that chaos theory explains the creation of the universe and not the present one, chaos is destructive in nature. It does not create! Something must have come out of nothing.

You are confusing chaos and entropy. In any case, chaos is not "destructive in nature".

I have more arguements for ur other points (well half ones anyway lol) but im tired so im going to bed. i will try to reply tomorrow.

Sleep well.
 
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