The Qur'an

[baftan]

So you see post-Renaissance development as western civlisation? Based on your reasoning, its an acceptable hypothesis. After all much of the basis of western civilisation is developments in other parts of the world, we could legitimately also include pre-Renaissance Europe as not western but pre-western.

I gave my criteria, I will not repeat them. Because this is simply useless: How on earth you are trying to get an exact starting point from my intentianally constructed paragraph? I specifically stated more and historically diverse events spreading through 300 years period, but you can easily pick up "Renaissance" (which itself was a 200 years long process), and stick a "post-Renaissance hypothesis" lebel on what I said. Today can also be accepted as part of post-Renaissance period, how about that?

I am not "after" anything. I am asking you to support your assertion with evidence. I don't care who you classify as infidels. Just show me which invasion was justified on that basis, as you claimed it was.

Excuse me, but it does not work like that... You have not supported any of your claims you made until now. I have raised some questions basically about your strict isolation of western civilization among others, and you haven't produced anything other than "Europeans", like those people came from some other planet and completely alien to the rest of the humanity.

Now you are asking for evidence, names... I'll tell you just one thing: I was born and raised in an Islamic country and I have been well informed about its history, divisions, war songs, commandants, Sheria declerations, campaigns, discourse, religion, state mechanism, various ages and different Islamic states since I was born. Yet I will not name a single war, and I have no intention to provide any date, since even wikipedia can help you. You are free to accept that I am arguing without any knowledge.

 

[S.A.M.]

Which one of my claims do you feel are unsupported? I don't care where you were born and brought up, awareness is not geographical nor history a matter of residence/

If you are unwilling or unable to support your own assertions, I will consider them as only your opinion. I am not an expert on the history of Islam, but I have yet to come across a single occasion when the justification for war was the beliefs of the enemy. I have come across such statements as the one you made, but they have always been presented as truisms, without any evidentiary support. I would be interested to know what these truisms are based on. Feel free to expand my knowledge at any time.

 

[Bizza]

Since all gloves are off...

This logic has nothing to do with “verbatim in the scientific world of academia”.

Yes it sure does!

In traditional logic, an axiom or postulate is a proposition that is not proved or demonstrated but considered to be either self-evident, or subject to necessary decision. Therefore, its truth is taken for granted, and serves as a starting point for deducing and inferring other (theory dependent) truths.

Pretty amazing that isn't it?

As far as science has understood, everything comes –or originates- from something. That means, nothing comes from non-existence. So Big Bang, according to this logic, should also come from something. Science do not support your illogical belief which is stated as “If something cannot come from nothing, then something must have created the Big Bang epoch yes? Otherwise you believe in nothing before it, which will violate the agreed premise. Now you don’t want to go against science do you?”. What is that? Honestly, what is this?

Is your brain full of shit or what? Did you actually read what you just wrote before you typed that oxymoron?

You just agreed with my point in the bolded part, and then you ask "what is that?"???

I don’t know your perception of science, but species come from their ancestors, they come from DNA based early creatures, DNA comes from RNA type structures, RNA comes from molecular level coexistence and co-survival strategies of atoms, atoms come from cooling down process of early universe, and universe comes from Big Bang. So should science think that Big Bang came from nothing? The first expected way of thinking would ask “So Big Bang must have been originated from something else", not that "So Bing Bang must have been created". We couldn't find age of universe or DNA structure if some people had never questioned this "creation" fantasy.

Maybe you should look up the word "cause" in a dictionary before you jump to idiotic conclusions (all the while agreeing with EVERYTHING I've pointed out so far!) LOL!

Here... let me educate that warped mind of yours shall I?

A very reputable online dictionary says:

cause  

–noun 1. a person or thing that acts, happens, or exists in such a way that some specific thing happens as a result; the producer of an effect: You have been the cause of much anxiety. What was the cause of the accident?
2. the reason or motive for some human action: The good news was a cause for rejoicing.
3. good or sufficient reason: to complain without cause; to be dismissed for cause.
4. Law. a. a ground of legal action; the matter over which a person goes to law.
b. a case for judicial decision.

5. any subject of discussion or debate.
6. a principle, ideal, goal, or movement to which a person or group is dedicated: the Socialist cause; the human rights cause.
7. the welfare of a person or group, seen as a subject of concern: support for the cause of the American Indian.
8. Philosophy. a. the end or purpose for which a thing is done or produced.
b. Aristotelianism. any of the four things necessary for the movement or the coming into being of a thing, namely a material (material cause), something to act upon it (efficient cause), a form taken by the movement or development (formal cause), and a goal or purpose (final cause).


–verb (used with object) 9. to be the cause of; bring about.

—Idiom10. make common cause, to unite in a joint effort; work together for the same end: They made common cause with neighboring countries and succeeded in reducing tariffs.

Origin:
1175–1225; ME < L causa reason, sake, case

Related forms:

caus⋅a⋅ble, adjective
caus⋅a⋅bil⋅i⋅ty, noun
causeless, adjective
cause⋅less⋅ly, adverb
cause⋅less⋅ness, noun
causer, noun


Synonyms:
1. Cause, occasion refer to the starting of effects into motion. A cause is an agency, perhaps acting through a long time, or a long-standing situation, that produces an effect: The cause of the quarrel between the two men was jealousy. An occasion is an event that provides an opportunity for the effect to become evident, or perhaps promotes its becoming evident: The occasion was the fact that one man's wages were increased. 3. See reason. 9. effect, make, create, produce.

Well well well! Did you get that at all? "Creating" is synonymous to the word "cause" afterall. How amazing!

Science has never proved, has never measured, and has seen no evidence that everything came from out of nothing;...

That's right... because "nothingness" CAN'T EXIST!!! "Something has never come from nothing" now has it? That's what I've been saying all along Einstein!

...none of the scientific tradition has dealt with nothingness. It’s for a good reason: Because it’s not the job of science. Your following 2 statements includes the disgusting word of creation:

Boohooo... poor wittle bunny wabbit doesn't wike da word "creation".:roflmao:

You can not make your argument acceptable just because you have used word “science” in your previous paragraph,

Yes I can! And I most certainly did... to justify the premises and syllogisms used. In essence... I used YOUR language and now you want to tie my hands hey? Funny that! Toooo fucking funny!

Atoms, gravity, light, electromagnetic were all existed before life on earth had begun.

Nice grammar numnutts! And "how" or "where" did they come from again?

Yet DNA has to depend, use, interact, and simply co-exist with all those other existences. So it’s not the duty of science to imagine some power which does not share this commonality, which is above the rules of physics, but it still exists somewhere, (where?).

Now what the fuuuuuuuck does that even mean? Seriously? That made no sense whatsoever. LOL! This is getting funnier and funnier. Did you and Michael come from the same clown college by any chance?

Moreover, this power created everything we can observe, yet we shouldn’t ask the question of “who or what created this power then?”

Wow! And why not? Afraid of the answer aren't you? That's exactly the contention here afterall!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since you are keen supporter of “everything comes from something, so you should be consistent and ask the same question for the creator: Where did he/she or it come? If it is “something” of course.

LOL! Your comprehensive abilities are comically delightfull, since my WHOLE post revolved around the proposition of 2 possibilities. If you read the end... the very end of my post... you would have seen your answer. Try again nimrod!

According to me, it is “nothing”...

Whooooawww! So you DO believe in "nothingness"? You just contradicted yourself as well after the statement you made above:
"As far as science has understood, everything comes –or originates- from something." :bugeye:

“Eternal” things are not subjects of science; they are subjects of fairy tales.

Then you as a person who doesn't believe "something cannot come from nothing", and thus believe in "nothingness", as you have obviously pointed out above in your schitzo-logic; how can the Big Bang exist? How can you believe in such benign stupidity? And you think we theists are idiots?

3 words... pot, kettle, black!

By the way, Infinity has also nothing to do with science... Science deals with finite systems.

I suggest you look at calculations dealing in "limits" where in open systems, INFINITY is used. And yes... that's in SCIENCE buddy! Deal with it.

By the way... eternity IS an infinite. It is an infinite amount of "time".. But thanks for coming. You weren't the first and you most certainly won't be the last!

Now onto my jester Michael! This should be fun.

 

[Bizza]

Firstly, as I understand, particles pop into and out of existence all the time.

That's the problem... YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! You CAN'T understand!

So what "particles pop into and out of existence" then Michael? And "how" do they do this? Did you think they came from "nothing" as you were trying to contest? Well you're a fool and a jester, as usual, if you think this way, which I know you do. It's only because of your ignorance stemming from atheistic bliss!

Here... learn something new:

Wickipedia[/URL]]It is sometimes suggested that pair production can be used to explain the origin of matter in the universe. In models of the Big Bang, it is suggested that vacuum fluctuations, or virtual particles, briefly appear.[9] Then, due to effects such as CP-violation, an imbalance between the number of virtual particles and antiparticles is created, leaving a surfeit of particles, thus accounting for the visible matter in the universe.

Now where oh where did these "effects" come from to create (cause) those particles I wonder? Reallllly think about it and it will dawn upon you like a ton of bricks and your whole world will come crashing down when you appreciate the immense fallacy in your atheistic beliefs, which you hold above all 'others'. Fucking elitist piece of shit!

You can go wank over your statue now! You obviously get off on looking at nude boys!

And I bet you and your kind like looking at so-called "artistic" paintings of nude little pre-teen children and dress them up like your grown up whores too I immagine? THAT'S the contribution of "your" civilization hey? ART?

The same civilization that lynched the blacks, wiped off harmless indegiounous races, raped and pillaged their lands? Used the most destructive mass-murdering weapon on Earth and created a holocaust. What a fucking hypocrite you are.

That's the end from me and you moderators (the same Zionazi-neocon minded fucks) can go screw yourselves too! I hope terrorists come to your homes and put firecrackers up your arses for amusement! LOL!

 

[Michael]

That's the problem... YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! You CAN'T understand!

So what "particles pop into and out of existence" then Michael? And "how" do they do this? Did you think they came from "nothing" as you were trying to contest? Well you're a fool and a jester, as usual, if you think this way, which I know you do. It's only because of your ignorance stemming from atheistic bliss!

Here... learn something new:



Now where oh where did these "effects" come from to create (cause) those particles I wonder? Reallllly think about it and it will dawn upon you like a ton of bricks and your whole world will come crashing down when you appreciate the immense fallacy in your atheistic beliefs, which you hold above all 'others'. Fucking elitist piece of shit!

You can go wank over your statue now! You obviously get off on looking at nude boys!

And I bet you and your kind like looking at so-called "artistic" paintings of nude little pre-teen children and dress them up like your grown up whores too I immagine? THAT'S the contribution of "your" civilization hey? ART?

The same civilization that lynched the blacks, wiped off harmless indegiounous races, raped and pillaged their lands? Used the most destructive mass-murdering weapon on Earth and created a holocaust. What a fucking hypocrite you are.

That's the end from me and you moderators (the same Zionazi-neocon minded fucks) can go screw yourselves too! I hope terrorists come to your homes and put firecrackers up your arses for amusement! LOL!

You really have some issues don't you?

The nice thing is humanity is leaving you and your kind in the dust bin of history Bizza. Muslim nations are becoming less fundamental. less religious and more secular. Islamic Theocracies are proving to be failures just like Communism and Muslims are not "Waking up to the True Islam" but waking up to the true realities of living under Theisms - Muslims are in a sense Westernizing but not really. More like Muslims are, of there own volition, following the same road people in the Europe and in the far East traveled.

That road ends in secular nationhood.

This has nothing to do with me or you or anyone here - it's the flow of history. I for one am happy to help it along. Or at least think about it as it happens.


Second, the Qur'an is not taught at Universities unlike other Philosophies. Which is interesting considering if is suppose to be "GOD creator of the Universe". Imagine God = Xenu.

You may think this is elitism. It isn't. It's simply an observation. I don't tell Chinese Universities which books to include on their curriculum. I'm simply commenting on it.





If three goddesses created the Universe and their consciousness then disappeared - your first cause it met and yet we are still left with a Godless Universe. Which is why Gods are never observed.


The cosmological argument is not a proof of Gods or Goddesses. I'm sorry to let you know this. If you want to debate it open a thread.



Lastly, I find it interesting you could look at such that 400BCE Greek sculpture of the God Neptune and only think about his penis. That's very odd to me - your obsession with his penis. Yeah, real odd. A little advice. If you felt a tingle when looking at his penis, and then felt hatred at the statue, you may have been born homosexual. Hating yourself for being gay isn't any way to live your life Bizza.

 

[S.A.M.]

Is there a reason why so many of your posts revolve around body functions? Are you on a diet? Constipated? Diabetic? Trying to lose weight? usually an obsession with sex and excretion is a sign of poor self image

 

[Bizza]

Who's leaving who in the dust moron? It's the secular atheistic belief that are the minority in this world, so get a clue first. There 1.5 BILLION Muslims boy, and another 2.5 BILLION Christians. I haven't even mentioned the rest of India and China which make up all other religions. This leaves your so-called "secular" flow in a dull state of affairs, doesn't it?

If atheism was so convincing, then why aren't people leaving God and accepting your perverted-stupid-hate-filled-egostistical-elitist set of beliefs? Hey? Tell me? How many people are running to the libraries picking up T.Huxley's books, or even Homer's "Illiad" compared to the Bible and the Quran? Diddly squatt is what. And you keep thinking that no one else in China, Russia, India etc "don't get" the Quran? Well maybe your demographics and geography is from another planet, because that's where most of the Muslim's live idiot!

By the way... there's a person reading and reciting the Quran every single second of the day. Which is much much more than your secular scribes hey? Funny that... no one seems to have "got them" hey?

Get a clue! And it seems like you have nothing left to say and you're stuck in the anals of your predecessors, as usual.

Where do you go now fuckwit?

 

[Michael]

Is there a reason why so many of your posts revolve around body functions? Are you on a diet? Constipated? Diabetic? Trying to lose weight? usually an obsession with sex and excretion is a sign of poor self image

maybe you missed a post:

That's the problem... YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! You CAN'T understand!

You can go wank over your statue now! You obviously get off on looking at nude boys!

And I bet you and your kind like looking at so-called "artistic" paintings of nude little pre-teen children and dress them up like your grown up whores too I immagine?

I hope terrorists come to your homes and put firecrackers up your arses for amusement! LOL!

:shrug:


Bizza, you're on the wrong side of history. But, to tell you the truth, I'm not interested in "converting" the world to atheism. As a matter of fact I think people should have a religion or superstitious belief of some kind or another. And this is where I understand Mohammad much better than you. You see, he was an atheist like me. How do I know this? Well, I'll let you in a on a little secret - there's really no Xenu's or Allah. It's all made up. Only an atheist would dare to make up a God. Why? To control little hot head shits like you. Now Mohammad was a man of his times. His times are gone. We're making a new religion for you right now. You're just to simple to know it. For example, in Mohammad's time he took slaves as that was normal. Now it's not. Now you probably don't even think Mohammad had slaves. They were "followers". That's called revisionism. People like me do it to control little shits like you.

And we do.

So, no, I don't mind the world is religious. It should be. People like Mohammad and I are the ones making up the religion you are believing. In a real sense you are our bitch. You're just too stupid to see it.

Funny that,
Michael

 

[S.A.M.]

I've seen his posts, but I am interested why so many of yours revolve around wiping your ass, homosexuality, sex and pedophilia/

 

[Michael]

I've seen his posts, but I am interested why so many of yours revolve around wiping your ass, homosexuality, sex and pedophilia/

I don't have a problem talking about asses, wiping them with the Bible, Qur'an, US Constitution, homosexuality, sex, anal sex, missionary, nipples, one night stands and why I concluded that Mohammad wasn't a pedophile but also wasn't far sighted in some sense. Then again hind site is 20/20.

 

[S.A.M.]

Not always, sometimes its just psychosis.

 

[Bizza]

Bizza, you're on the wrong side of history. But, to tell you the truth, I'm not interested in "converting" the world to atheism.

Really?

And this is where I understand Mohammad much better than you ... For example, in Mohammad's time he took slaves as that was normal. Now it's not. Now you probably don't even think Mohammad had slaves. They were "followers".

Really? LOL! You know Muhammad (saw) better than me ey? You are the ripe old fuckwadd aren't you? Did you know that Muhammad (saw) was the man that actually abolished slavery? You really are more than an IDIOT!

That's called revisionism. People like me do it to control little shits like you.

And how's that going for you dickhead?:roflmao:

 

[Michael]

SAM, stop trolling.

Bizza, you appear to be a very very simple minded person who easily gets pissy and is easily controlled by superstition. YOU are the reason I think the world should remain superstitious. So again, nope, not interested in converting people like you to atheism. Best you remain superstitious. People like me just control what your superstition teaches you to better control you. Yes Bizza, Mohammad never owned a slave, never killed a person, and was monogamous.

It's very easy too. Like minding children really.

 

[Bells]

Yeah, I noticed how many times the mods have jumped in when Michael does his "show me the statues" routine. As compared to my FIRST post challenging his nonsense. Thanks for nothing. I feel considerably better knowing how active the mods are in protecting the right side of the pond.

I believe that may have been the first time I've ever seen that routine. So I think you know where you can place the thank you.

Its quite entertaining to see so called leftists valiantly defending war crimes, apartheid, segregation and making comments which reveal their inability to distinguish fact from fiction.

Oh?

That is a bit of a broad brush there, don't you think?

 

[Bizza]

You're the one who's trolling... with your uneducated and unintelligible threads which serves no purpose but to infuriate the reader. You can't even hold a conversation that's presented (let alone refute any of them) and resort to stupid red-herrings that are not only untrue and subjective, but also doesn't lead anywhere except a barrage of insults and more provocation.

If you want to actually learn something, then ask. If you want to piss people off with your subjective and elitist attitude, I can dish out more than I can give. And believe me, I am relentless at that. I won't let fuckwitts like you get away with ad-hominem and non-sequetur comments which does nothing for the human mind.

So go and piss off!

 

[S.A.M.]

He's devoted himself to making no sense. There is no point getting worked up over it.

 

[John99]

You're the one who's trolling... with your uneducated and unintelligible threads which serves no purpose but to infuriate the reader.

people still have a right to their beliefs or is it only you?

 

[Bizza]

people still have a right to their beliefs or is it only you?

Not at all John. I don't go around posting stupid threads like Michead does. I have many atheist friends and none of them are as rude and arrogant (not to mention insanely stupid) as him. I'm sorry if I offend you John and I see you as one of the ammicable few, but when people like Michael post threads like this that does nothing but create annimosity and provocations (just read his posts in this entire thread for evidence), it gets very very personal. He's not here to learn at all John... just here to preach and piss people off.

Peace and Selaam matey!

 

[(Q)]

you're a fool and a jester, as usual

Fucking elitist piece of shit!

You obviously get off on looking at nude boys!

And I bet you and your kind like looking at so-called "artistic" paintings of nude little pre-teen children and dress them up like your grown up whores too I immagine?

The same civilization that lynched the blacks, wiped off harmless indegiounous races, raped and pillaged their lands? Used the most destructive mass-murdering weapon on Earth and created a holocaust. What a fucking hypocrite you are.

That's the end from me and you moderators (the same Zionazi-neocon minded fucks) can go screw yourselves too! I hope terrorists come to your homes and put firecrackers up your arses for amusement! LOL!

Ah, the religion of peace offers it's contributions.

 

[(Q)]

just here to preach and piss people off.

Peace and Selaam matey!

You certainly are off to a good start. Well done.