The Qur'an

[baftan]

These are principles of the reasons, or packaged versions of the realities, or thermodynamic principles of human universe. We never go back, it is not allowed, because our past is characteristically different than astronomical past that you can observe via telescopes.

 

[Bizza]

These are principles of the reasons, or packaged versions of the realities, or thermodynamic principles of human universe. We never go back, it is not allowed, because our past is characteristically different than astronomical past that you can observe via telescopes.

I never said "exactly" the same did I? How can that even be possible? It can be a revived version of the old and even more advanced perhaps. No reason why it can't be at all. On with the flow of Entropy!

 

[Repo Man]

The west only began to make significant progress when it cast off the yoke of Christianity.

 

[baftan]

It can be a revived version of the old and even more advanced perhaps.

I think you are not familiar to Qur'an which strictly claims that there is no old Qur'an, new Qur'an, modified Qur'an or fashionable Qur'an: There is only one Qur'an and it never changes since it's Allah's own words. So your improvement or Entropy plans will only get you a short ticket to Islam's hell.

If you do what you say, it does not become the original one anymore, it becomes "something else"...

 

[Bizza]

I think you are not familiar to Qur'an which strictly claims that there is no old Qur'an, new Qur'an, modified Qur'an or fashionable Qur'an: There is only one Qur'an and it never changes since it's Allah's own words. So your improvement or Entropy plans will only get you a short ticket to Islam's hell.

If you do what you say, it does not become the original one anymore, it becomes "something else"...

Who was talking about the Quran here? I was referring to the revival and the advance of the Islamic Golden Age in sciences. Not the Quran!

 

[baftan]

Who was talking about the Quran here? I was referring to the revival and the advance of the Islamic Golden Age in sciences. Not the Quran!

And I have been talking about that the Golden Age of Islam failed to reach out people's daily lifes because of Qur'an. It is also something beyond my imagination to estimate an Islamic Age (Golden or other type) without centering Qur'an in its core. If you are saying that you will reconstruct an Islamic Age without including Qur'an, now you are getting an "Express Delivery" stamp on your Islamic ticket to hell...

 

[Bizza]

And I have been talking about that the Golden Age of Islam failed to reach out people's daily lifes because of Qur'an. It is also something beyond my imagination to estimate an Islamic Age (Golden or other type) without centering Qur'an in its core. If you are saying that you will reconstruct an Islamic Age without ignoring Qur'an, now you are getting an Express Delivery stamp on your ticket to hell...

I think you're being presumptious and missleading to what has been said.

First, I responded to an idiotic claim that Islamic Civilization contributed ill to the world by providing the sources for the advances in modern sciences DUE to Islamic Civilizations.

Then you came in saying that the sciences weren't derived from the Quran, which was NOT what the discussion was about.

Then you revert to another topic and state that the Islamic Golden Age CAN'T be revived with no reasoning whatsoever.

And now you're claiming again that the sciences of the Islamic Golden Age relied on the Quran? Are you serious? It would be good to talk to intelligable people with some common sense. Sheesh!:bugeye:

 

[baftan]

And now you're claiming again that the sciences of the Islamic Golden Age relied on the Quran?

I have never said that...
But you are talking about revival of Islamic Golden Age. What I am asking is how will you do that without including Qur'an, since Islam is Qur'an and Qur'an is Islam in its core definition. These are what I said previously:

“One mistake, misjudgement, or impossibility of Islamic achievements was, and it has always been -probably due to its nature- that those achievements have never found their reflections in social life. It was conducted behind closed doors, some of the works (especially astromy) were intentionally left premature by Islamic politicians and religious bodies, just because they might have contradicted to Qur'an in the first place.”

This is another statement towards same verdict:

And I have been talking about that the Golden Age of Islam failed to reach out people's daily lifes because of Qur'an.

So as you can see I have never said such a thing like “Islamic Golden Age relied on the Qur’an", have I?

And for your information, and to satisfy your animated amazement for how did I involve Qur’an into this discussion, you can always go back and check out the title of this thread. Then you can ask yourself looking in the mirror “how did change the main topic, real discussion, or core issue in here”. If you find any good in talking to intelligible people with common sense, you should do better than twisting my words or trying to resurrect ancient ideologies with fantastic modifications.

 

[Bizza]

I have never said that...
But you are talking about revival of Islamic Golden Age. What I am asking is how will you do that without including Qur'an, since Islam is Qur'an and Qur'an is Islam in its core definition. These are what I said previously:

“One mistake, misjudgement, or impossibility of Islamic achievements was, and it has always been -probably due to its nature- that those achievements have never found their reflections in social life. It was conducted behind closed doors, some of the works (especially astromy) were intentionally left premature by Islamic politicians and religious bodies, just because they might have contradicted to Qur'an in the first place.”

The Islamic Golden Age was a culmination of gathering all prior scientific knowledge from past Indian, Greek civilizations etc, and the moral teachings of the Quran for its society, as well as its laws. The Quran was not the reason why the Islamic Sciences flourished in Science because it doesn't deal with scientific studies, rather, it was used as the platform for inspiration and enlightenment of the Human spirit and their endeavours. It is a book of guidance and signs, not a book of science.

There are two differences here that you so poorly missed. One is the advances in science and the other being the sociological structure (i.e. morals, laws etc).

Afterall, the Quran tells us to observe our surroundings and the universe, so as to appreciate the intricate and immense balance Allah has used to create it. He even gives us hints in verses to some basic scientific claims that would have been the springboard of thought for most of the scientific discoveries founded by Muslim scholars during that time. Without the Quran's inspirational words, this may have not been possible, but the fact remains that Islam did flourish under Islamic teachings using Islamic methods, all while the Quran was used as their inspiration and guide. Not the other way around!

This is another statement towards same verdict:

And I have been talking about that the Golden Age of Islam failed to reach out people's daily lifes because of Qur'an.

Yes, you were "talking" about it, but you sure haven't backed those assumptions with any credibility whatsoever.

So as you can see I have never said such a thing like “Islamic Golden Age relied on the Qur’an", have I?

You sure were insinuating it as a disguise though weren't you? You said, "I have been talking about that the Golden Age of Islam failed to reach out people's daily lifes because of Qur'an".

How else is one to take that statement to mean?

And for your information, and to satisfy your animated amazement for how did I involve Qur’an into this discussion, you can always go back and check out the title of this thread. Then you can ask yourself looking in the mirror “how did change the main topic, real discussion, or core issue in here”. If you find any good in talking to intelligible people with common sense, you should do better than twisting my words or trying to resurrect ancient ideologies with fantastic modifications.

The Quran was the inspiration for the Islamic advances in science due to the cohesion of its society, brought about due to the people's adherence in the laws and social morals taught in the Quran. The deteriation of that society was not due to the Quran as you suggest. If that was the case, the Islamic Golden Age would never have been born in the first place, whilst the Quran was there at the time.

 

[baftan]

If you have a false assumption of "repeating same words makes them important, respectful, divine or reliable", I would recommend you to get rid of this habit. Only repeating experiments, measurements make things viable, not repeating words such as "Islamic Sciences".

Keep rejecting to accept the poor and restrained state of Islamic societies today, assume that Qur'an insprided good old Muslims, and blame degradation of people and their lifestyles as a source of disfunctionality, and find yourself some relieving stories which has no effect on actual issues whatsoever. It's your life...

 

[Michael]

Actually you are the only one who knows about Xenu

Peace be unto you

There's an equal amount of scientific evidence for Allah as there is for Smurfs, Magical flying horses, Jinn, The Japanese Goddess Amaterasu, The Indian Diety Shiva, Leprechauns. The Flying Spaghetti Monster and yes Bizza's invisible friend Xenu.

If you are being honest, then you agree.

 

[Bizza]

If you have a false assumption of "repeating same words makes them important, respectful, divine or reliable", I would recommend you to get rid of this habit. Only repeating experiments, measurements make things viable, not repeating words such as "Islamic Sciences".

Oh... thanks for those enlightening and ever so wise recommendations. I should go out and repeatedly accuse and regurgitate the same old mantra like you then? And then if that doesn't work, just go build false pretences to go to war and then destroy that society because it doesn't suit my views or way of life. Riiiight!:bugeye:

Keep rejecting to accept the poor and restrained state of Islamic societies today, assume that Qur'an insprided good old Muslims, and blame degradation of people and their lifestyles as a source of disfunctionality, and find yourself some relieving stories which has no effect on actual issues whatsoever. It's your life...

Good luck to you! You can continue believing that; dumb, mute, senseless and lifeless existents "knew" how to create this wonderfull universe all by themselves!

 

[Michael]

Read up on how Western Science flourished thanks to Islamic sciences first you poor sick child. You owe alot to the past Muslim innovations. Make no mistake about it.

You want scientific advancements? Here you nimrod!

Throughout Islamic history, that is exactly what Muslims have done. Particularly in the 7th-13th centuries C.E., the Islamic world was in the midst of its "Golden Age," paving the way for the growth of modern sciences. Rather than stifling science, the religion of Islam encouraged its study. Scientific inquiry was widespread, and some of the greatest scholars and scientists of the world made wondrous discoveries and inventions. Muslims led the world in the study of medicine, astronomy, mathematics, geography, chemistry, botany, and physics. They transmitted their studies to the West, where their work was built upon and further disseminated.

These English words are rooted in the Arabic language, demonstrating the influence of Muslim scholars in these fields:

alchemy
algebra
algorithm
alkali
almanac
antimony
average
azimuth
camphor
carat
cipher (zero)
elixir
nadir
pancreas
soda
zenith
zircon

For Further Study:

Contributions of Islam to Medicine - excellent article by Ezzat Abouleish , M. D.

How Islam Influenced Science - overview from the Islamic Herald

Islam in Medieval History - links from About.com's Medieval History Guide

Islamic Medicine - overview of Muslim contributions to the field of medicine

Medieval Science - another resource from About.com's Guide to Medieval History

Muslim Scientists and Scholars - biographies of the well-known and lesser-known

Science and Islam - overview of the many fields Muslims studied

Scientific Contributions of Muslims - in English and Arabic.

Setting the Record Straight - Westerners take credit for many discoveries that were actually made by Muslim scientists.

Timeline of Muslim Scientists - includes names and dates, but no biographical information

...
Can you count to ten (that's 10) Michael? I wonder who tought you those numbers hey? LOL! You're an absolute embarrassment to Humankind!:bugeye:

Dear Bizza,

The fact is the best Muslim scientists mostly worked as Greek translators. Any scientific discoveries done by Muslims were DIRECTLY inspired by the polytheistic Greeks. Even the architecture of your mosques is a rip off of the Romans.

The real question is, why did Muslims advance SO LITTLE in the sciences in their 800 years of dominance - such a small advancement it's shameful. Why? Why after conquering and looting the great Greek, Persian and Roman scientific and philosophical works did they make such a pathetically SMALL amount of advancement?

Why? Because Islam was a superstitious weight around their necks. Holding them back. Greeks and Romans were more advanced than Muslims. Muslims continued to use their books for everything from medicine to philosophy. Muslims didn't help advance European science - they instead looted European monasteries and actually retarded science.

In the last 80 years we went from living in superstition to sending a man to the moon.



Given a all the Roman and Greek works they plundered - Muslims still could not even match the Europeans from 1500 years EARLIER. Talk about pathetic.

Where's your Muslim sculpture of the HUMAN FORM that even remotely compares to this from 400 BCE:

Nowhere Bizza, because Islam retarded the culture of carving the Human form along with 10s of thousands of other things. It's the reason why Islamic countries are completely dependent on the West and East for all technology and advancements and still live in the superstitious stone ages.

Go tell Xenu we said hello.

 

[Bizza]

There's an equal amount of scientific evidence for Allah as there is for Smurfs, Magical flying horses, Jinn, The Japanese Goddess Amaterasu, The Indian Diety Shiva, Leprechauns. The Flying Spaghetti Monster and yes Bizza's invisible friend Xenu.

If you are being honest, then you agree.

Xenu? Please... take your medication and up your dosage juuuuuust a tad like a good little boy hey? Untill then, why don't you get on your bike, go to school, and come back peddeling to me when you've learned something new!

 

[Bizza]

Dear Bizza,

The fact is the best Muslim scientists mostly worked as Greek translators. Any scientific discoveries done by Muslims were DIRECTLY inspired by the polytheistic Greeks. Even the architecture of your mosques is a rip off of the Romans.

LOL! So you admit that Muslims DID discover things afterall. How ironic!

The real question is, why did Muslims advance SO LITTLE in the sciences in their 800 years of dominance - such a small advancement it's shameful. Why? Why after conquering and looting the great Greek, Persian and Roman scientific and philosophical works did they make such a pathetically SMALL amount of advancement?

And after years of teaching you and your ancestors how to pipe your shit, write on paper, teach you about the stars, the Human anatomy, how to even count properly... did you come out of your dark dark sesspool you called your society in the Dark ages. The irony is delicious!

Why? Because Islam was a superstitious weight around their necks. Holding them back. Greeks and Romans were more advanced than Muslims. Muslims continued to use their books for everything from medicine to philosophy. Muslims didn't help advance European science - they instead looted European monasteries and actually retarded science.

Funny that they're still around and haven't been destroyed hey? Even after 800 years to have the chance to do so. Really funny that! And yes, European and Western society owes the Muslims for their current technology. You can delude yourself as much as you want little boy, but you won't be fooling anyone with your trash talk.

In the last 80 years we went from living in superstition to sending a man to the moon.

We? And where did you learn that from again? Remember who taught "your" people how to count? 10,9,8... geee... or should I have said X, IX, XIII...? oh bugger it, I forgot the zero!!! What was the symbol you guys used for zero again? LOL!

Given a all the Roman and Greek works they plundered - Muslims still could not even match the Europeans from 1500 years EARLIER. Talk about pathetic.

You obviously haven't opened your eyes yet, nor travelled around the world to see such marvels of architecture and art? How pathetic!

Where's your Muslim sculpture of the HUMAN FORM that even remotely compares to this from 400 BCE

Riiiiight:bugeye: So you wanted a naked statue to validate your claims did you? Even more pathetic!

Nowhere Bizza, because Islam retarded the culture of carving the Human form along with 10s of thousands of other things. It's the reason why Islamic countries are completely dependent on the West and East for all technology and advancements and still live in the superstitious stone ages.

Did it now? Funny that! And here I thought people flourished during the Golden Age because of Islam? Wow!

Go tell Xenu we said hello.

And say hello to Nurse Ratched hey?

 

[Michael]

LOL! So you admit that Muslims DID discover things afterall. How ironic!

Yes Bizza, the people who were Muslims were people who had been making advancements for 5000 years before Islam. It's just that following Islam their advancements grinded to a crawl.

800 years Bizza and not much of anything concidering we're talking 800 years!

80 years and we flew to the moon. See the difference?


.... Xenu, Allah whichever, just say hello the next time they talk to you inside your head

 

[Michael]

Did it now? Funny that! And here I thought people flourished during the Golden Age because of Islam? Wow!

I'm waiting for the sculture Bizza. Post it or conceed the point.

See it's the simple. Just POST a few sculpting from Muslims of the Human Form. Pretty easy. You don't even need to type a word.


Secondly, see if you can see the difference:

Which is it:
Chinese Golden Age or Tao Golden Age.
Japanese Golden Age or Shinto Golden Age
Roman Golden Age or Polytheistic Golden Age

Islamic Golden Age is oxymornic. You've just so deeply brainwashed by the propaganda you can't see it. Go to the list again. Read over ALL Civilizations everywhere from all times Bizza. See if you can get it.

Probably not. Little meme's are firing off right now shutting down avenues or logical thought and *bing* back to make up excuses.

 

[S.A.M.]

It's just that following Islam their advancements grinded to a crawl.

Hilarious.

I'm waiting for the sculture Bizza. Post it or conceed the point.

Please state where sculpture = anything relevant to this discussion.

 

[Bizza]

Yes Bizza, the people who were Muslims were people who had been making advancements for 5000 years before Islam. It's just that following Islam their advancements grinded to a crawl.

800 years Bizza and not much of anything concidering we're talking 800 years!

80 years and we flew to the moon. See the difference?


.... Xenu, Allah whichever, just say hello the next time they talk to you inside your head

It took you thousands of years of collaborative knowledge to get to the moon mate. Not 80 years! Before that, your ancestors were living in their own faecies and eating the blandest food (and still does today funnily!).

Anyone for chips? uke:

 

[S.A.M.]

The funny thing is that of all the accomplishments of the Islamic world, the only one Michael obsesses about is one that least imaginative.

Is he impressed by the fact that Muslims developed a sophisticated system of math for tiling? One that is 5 centuries ahead of everyone else?

Nope, he wants to see the boobies