The Power of Public opinion

SamCdKey:

It would seem more like the government capitulated to public outcry over a verdict that was decided by a judge to be innocent. It does not seem that they got "justice" as much as they got a "lynch mob bitching".

But yes, why not have juries? No corruption is really possible there.
 
Prince_James said:
SamCdKey:

It would seem more like the government capitulated to public outcry over a verdict that was decided by a judge to be innocent. It does not seem that they got "justice" as much as they got a "lynch mob bitching".

But yes, why not have juries? No corruption is really possible there.
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Not really. Without the evidence there could be no case.

And juries are more susceptible than judges with jobs/reputation on the line.:)
 
samcdkey said:
And juries are more susceptible than judges with jobs/reputation on the line.:)
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Judges don't have jobs and reputations to maintain???

Sam, surely you don't believe what you just implied, do you? I mean, I for one, ain't so hot on "juries" simply because people can be soooooo fuckin' stupid, but to say that a few judges aren't susceptible to corruption, yet the whole jury pool is, is nothing short of crazy-talk!

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
Judges don't have jobs and reputations to maintain???

Sam, surely you don't believe what you just implied, do you? I mean, I for one, ain't so hot on "juries" simply because people can be soooooo fuckin' stupid, but to say that a few judges aren't susceptible to corruption, yet the whole jury pool is, is nothing short of crazy-talk!

Baron Max
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Read my post again, Baron, slooooooowly this time.

God willing there will be light!:D
 
Baron Max said:
Nope, not light. Did you miss a comma or something, perhaps?

Wanna' try again using baby talk that I might understand?

Baron Max
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I did not miss a comma, you might have added one that isn't there.

The major problem with the lower judiciary in India is not corruption but delay. With about 11 judges per million people where the US has 107, there is a heavy backlog of case arrears. Its a case of justice delayed justice denied.Poverty is another cruncher, since poor people simply cannot afford the long drawn out process of justice, with the inevitable delays that add to the costs.

The good news is that the media is very active and keeps a close watch on the justice system. The other good news is that the judiciary is in the process of planning reforms in the criminal and juvenile justice system to fastrack cases.:)
 
samcdkey -
How can you have so much faith in the Indian legal system?
It's a joke.

You're comparing America's justice system to India's?
No doubt, I love India, but considering the two on par comes quite close to pure stupidity.

The police can be bribed, and they commit all kinds of atrocities to "willfully" receive bribe money.
A reform in the legal system would definitely be a start to refining the country as a whole.

Public Opinion

The idea that a murderer was put behind bars through active participation is a story we can all be happy for, but what does it actually mean? It means the average person is affecting the decision of the government itself! How does a mob mentality justify anything? True, in your case it works out (but think about the opposite as in before MLK, Jr., Whites sure as hell got away with a lot against Blacks) but it does not justify all cases. It is called operant conditioning. If people are rewarded for it once, they'll do it again, and perhaps the second time, it won't be the right answer.

Have you ever seen the movie Runaway Jury?
Do you know how much hard work went into rigging the jury?
Imagine if that was only one person to bribe... a mafia man could easily buy off several thousand people if it meant jail time. Does the Godfather ring a bell (he didn't buy anybody, but he helped many people, and despite his wrongdoings, the mob would have certainly backed him up!)?
 
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Why do I have faith in the justice system?
I see the corruption and delays at the lower level as a product of overwork and stress and poverty, the ineptitude resulting from being pushed too hard too far.

Mostly I have faith in the judgement of the Indian people. Regardless of their opinions about your caste or color, the average Indian is fair minded and even corruption is excused and proliferates because people recognise that it arises not from evil designs but is a way to get things done faster in a system bogged down by overwork and is a way that things are done here. Over the years that mentally has changed a lot and is decreasing steadily with increase in standard of living.

I am sorry but the few run ins I had with the cops in the US did nothing to help this view and I actually longed for a cop I could slip something to to get things done.:eek:

e.g. there was this boy who exposed himself to girls in the dorm. When he did it to a friend of mine and we called the cops, they took 2 hours to arrive. Even after that, they seemed least interested in looking for the culprit and more interested in the size shape and color of his penis, smirking and making off color jokes. My friend went several times to the cops with suggestions but they never found the guy-in a dorm!

Another time, when I had just received news of my mom's death and my friend came rushing to take me home from work. My friend's car was parked outside the door and a cop came by and gave her a ticket. Even after several attempts at an explanation, he absolutely refused to listen and threatened to give another ticket.

Contrast this with a guy in my neighborhood in India who whistled at me and made a lewd remark. I slapped his face and went and complained to the cop at the nearest station. The cop came back with me immediately, grabbed the boy by his collar and wrote out an FIR against the boy.

Another time I went to a movie theatre and was molested by a drunk guy. I was very upset and complained to the usher. He took me immediately to the managers office and called the cops. A female cop came in, wrote out my statement, got the guy from the theatre (helped by the usher) and took him to the station, got a confession and gave him a whipping.

Where would I feel safer, do you think? I can only base my opinions on my own personal experiences.
 
IceAgeCivilizations said:
If you can base your opinions, samkey, on only your personal experiences, then it's just story time from you, not much change there.
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Holyshitcrazybitchmotherofgod!

I agree with IceAgeCivilizations!

The problem with "getting things done faster" and "excusing corruption" is the same in the case of Mr. Lal-whoever. One case does not determine the rest of them. "Doing things properly" and "punishing corruption" are the only ways to strengthen the system so that it does dole out punishment sporadically, but instead all the time.
 
IceAgeCivilizations said:
If you can base your opinions, samkey, on only your personal experiences, then it's just story time from you, not much change there.
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You mean I should base my opinions on other people's experiences?

I'm sorry, but when I am treated like an inconsequential piece of shit by a law enforcement officer and see no results forthcoming from my complaints, it gives me little confidence in approaching one when I need help.

e.g. I was stranded once in the mid-west following an interview, I spent the whole night in the bus station rather than ask for help, because I did not feel safe enough to do so.

I was also stranded once in Bombay during the bomb blasts of 1992 when public transport was full of people rushing home. I asked a cop for a lift and he dropped me home.

My opinions determine my actions. And my opinions are determined by my experiences. If people have another yardstick well good luck to them.
 
Ayodhya said:
Holyshitcrazybitchmotherofgod!

I agree with IceAgeCivilizations!

The problem with "getting things done faster" and "excusing corruption" is the same in the case of Mr. Lal-whoever. One case does not determine the rest of them. "Doing things properly" and "punishing corruption" are the only ways to strengthen the system so that it does dole out punishment sporadically, but instead all the time.
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Whatever. I would never ask a cop for help in the US, not unless I had no other options.

At least in India, I know what to expect.

Besides this is the country that thinks its justified to go to war and kill people preemptively. Sorry not my idea of "doing things properly".
 
IceAgeCivilizations said:
You said you base your opinions on your experiences, so don't read.
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Again, if you think reading counts as experience, you need to get out more.:p

Let me help you out here:

experience:

1 a : direct observation of or participation in events as a basis of knowledge b : the fact or state of having been affected by or gained knowledge through direct observation or participation
2 a : practical knowledge, skill, or practice derived from direct observation of or participation in events or in a particular activity b : the length of such participation <has 10 years' experience in the job>
3 a : the conscious events that make up an individual life b : the events that make up the conscious past of a community or nation or humankind generally
4 : something personally encountered, undergone, or lived through
5 : the act or process of directly perceiving events or reality
 
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