The Naked Truth Would be Nice

[Jan Ardena]

swarm,

If we have free will why are those who exercise their free will punished in hell?

Erm... every being excercises their free will. :bugeye:

Seems pretty evil still and / or incompitent.

You're utilising your free will when you say that.
Would you prefer not to have one?

jan.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I doubt it was a case of "nudity was shameful", simply because, it wasn't shameful before.
I would say the mind became contaminated with lust.

When I'm standing naked in front of the only woman in the world, who is also naked, I don't look around for something to wear. Maybe God had trouble getting them to mate....like a couple of captive pandas. I didn't know lust was bad.

God cannot be a "perfectionist" and perfection at the same time.

I was talking tongue-in-cheek.

 

[swarm]

Erm... every being excercises their free will.

You seem you be using "being" in a non standard way. I would not say every being has free will.

For example, a plant and some one in a vegetative state are both beings, but neither would seem to have free will.

I've also heard it well argued that if there is a god as described by most mono theists (ie omni's and bene), then such a being would not have free will.

You're utilizing your free will when you say that.
Would you prefer not to have one?

Would you prefer not to be eternally tormented just because you have a free will and use it?

 

[Jan Ardena]

swarm,

You seem you be using "being" in a non standard way. I would not say every being has free will.
For example, a plant and some one in a vegetative state are both beings, but neither would seem to have free will.

I think free will is dertermined by the concious awareness of the being.

I've also heard it well argued that if there is a god as described by most mono theists (ie omni's and bene), then such a being would not have free will

.

Why wouldn't he?

Would you prefer not to be eternally tormented just because you have a free will and use it?

Answering a question with a question of your own.
Your question makes no sense, maybe you can rephrase it.
We all have free will. If I trangress the law of society, then I can expect reprocussions to my actions. This is, and has been apparent throughout all history. I see no reason why this is not a universal concept.

jan.

 

[rjr6]

not meaning to sound like a smug jerk, but how can fate/destiny and free will co-exist?

God lives outside of time (infinity). Free will is powerful enough to accomplish anything. The trick is to understand the gift and make the correct choice. Destiny confuses those that live in time.


Thus post is not an attempt to explain freewill/fate, just a way to think about it.

 

[Adstar]

Then why is God upset? When original sin was committed,

Because what was once Good became contaminated.

were we not only behaving at our level of being?

Adam and Eve at the level of their being had the choice to either believe God or believe satan. They chose to believe satan and from that moment on a long sadness began, one that will not end until mankind is restored.

So, are we at a higher level of being now because we have the knowledge or are we at a lower level?

Having the knowledge of Good and evil does not change the base configuration of our structure, it only puts our structure under a load it is not capable of sustaining without failure.

Careful, because God knows good & evil also.

So you seem to be saying to me that because God has the knowledge of Good and evil that if i call having the knowledge of Good and Evil as being a fault or as i say a contamination then i am saying that God Himself is faulty or contaminated.

If this is the point you are making it only demonstrates a much repeated atheist flaw in lowering God to the level of His creation. athiests often cannot relate to a God without humanising Him and cutting Him down to their level. But the truth is God is God not a man, if you like a perfect structure able to eternally support all knowledge both Good and Evil without failure.

God is God men are men. We are not the same.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Adstar can you write 'were' when you mean 'were' instead of 'where'. Your posts are hard enough to understand with the garbage that fills them already, they don't need more crap to confuse people.

Pathetic, a immature response by a person who is offended but has no real points left to make. Turns to criticism of a spelling mistake in a vain attempt to score a point. I will go on talking about things that a deep and important. You turn to pointing out spelling errors. Pathetic, what a sad case you are.



All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[swarm]

I think free will is dertermined by the concious awareness of the being.

So you agree not every being can exercise free will. So back to the original question. Why give people free will only to damn to eternal torment those who actually use it?

Why wouldn't he?

Because he is wholly constrained by his nature (benevolent) and foreknowledge (omniscient) and unable to choose outside these constraints. I.e. He already knows all his actions and can't change then any more than you can change what already happened and he has to choose the option which is the greatest good everytime and he knows which choice that was.

Answering a question with a question of your own.

Just bringing your dodge back to the original question.

Your question makes no sense, maybe you can rephrase it.

Why give people free will only to damn to eternal torment those who actually use it?

Consider. I create people with curiosity and free will but no knowledge of good or evil and then I put that knowledge in front of them and create a tempter to suggest eating the fruit just in case their native curiosity isn't enough. Remember they don't know it is wrong to disobey me yet. So they act like I created them to, eat the fruit, and then I kill them and torment them forever.

And you are ok with this????

 

[swarm]

Because what was once Good became contaminated.

Get behind me satan!

How dare you suggest that god's work is so cheap that a mere mortal could contaminate it!

All Praise The Ancient Of Daze[/QUOTE]