The Inerrant Bible?

[786]

786,

As you said - your transgression are directly against God, and in answer He sent his Christ, again - directly from God. You say forgiveness is enough.

Then why do anything good at all?

PS> SouthStar, you flatter me, but I don't deserve titles!

My friend, please read my posts carefully. I said repentence with sincerety.

Do you know that God will forgive? When I ask of forgiveness, I ask with the fear of God. Because it is God's will if he forgives. I do not know if he forgave or not. I don't get a dream saying that you are forgiven.

So that is why you shouldn't think that you have worshipped enough, because there is never enough. Because no one knows if God forgave. It is God's own will. It may be that he has forgiven me, but it also maybe that he didn't. Anyways, there are levels of Paradise, according to Islam. So if you want to recieve the higher levels, then it will depend on you good deeds.

My friend did JESUS ever say that you will be saved when he is crucified?

Peace be unto you

 

[Jenyar]

My friend,

That's why Jesus came. To make my and your faith complete, to justify our hope in God, and release love and mercy from performance anxiety. For what is a promise of God if it is not certain?

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.​

If this is just wishful thinking, then those who scoff at religion are justified to call our faith "blind".

John 10:7 Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.​

Jesus is our certainty and knowledge of God. Once again we have Jesus saying: "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me-- just as the Father knows me and I know the Father--and I lay down my life for the sheep." Not only that:

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."​

He's not a dead gate, that opens to everyone who asks or cries "Lord, Lord", but a shepherd who can recognize those who belong to God, who call on his Name. Even if you sincerely repent, why can't you be sure? Because you have to rely on yourself, not God. Your good works decide your fate. To Christians, good works simply decide your sincerity. Jesus decides if you know God, if you followed his commands and truly loved. Forgiveness is in spite of your sins (otherwise it wouldn't be forgiveness, would it?) - but God makes sure it's not a free ride, that justice still prevails.

Haven't you ever wondered why the Gospels are called "gospels" (Good News)? Why do we call it that?

Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the good news of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people. (Matthew 4:23)

Acts 13
"We tell you the good news:
What God promised our fathers he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:
" 'You are my Son;
today I have become your Father...

But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.
"Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

Take care that what the prophets have said does not happen to you:
" 'Look, you scoffers,
wonder and perish,
for I am going to do something in your days
that you would never believe,
even if someone told you.'[Hab. 1:5]"​

 

[786]

Give me a verse that JESUS says that you will be forgiven, because of the crucifixion, or anything else.

Peace be unto you

 

[Jenyar]

Gladly:

Matthew 9
Jesus Heals a Paralytic

Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."
At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, "This fellow is blaspheming!"
Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, "Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...." Then he said to the paralytic, "Get up, take your mat and go home." And the man got up and went home. When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.​

So which is easier? To heal the sick or to forgive sins?

 

[melodicbard]

Wow! You are the opposite of Paul

Saul -> Paul
SouthStar -> PouthPtar

 

[Hideki Matsumoto]

Be careful, what you read in your bibles as it is not even close to being absolute (100%)
for what you read isn't what was originally published. The most (fundimental) versions of the bible are what are read in Iran, Syria, Turkey, and Southern Russia. This is what the Koptic Christians read.

----Jesus was a Jew!

 

[Jenyar]

1. Greek manuscripts

• Very old—usually before 300AD—some as old as 100AD
• Only around 100 or so exist
• All come from Egypt where the dry climate makes survival possible
• Initially said to support the Alexandrian Text. However, as more copies have been found, more and more readings of the Received Text have been found. These are often readings that the scholars thought were invented 200-300 years after the age of the papyrus manuscripts themselves.

2. Early versions
D. Coptic Bible

• An Egyptian translation
• Usually agrees with the Alexandrian Text

from Early bible Preservation

Surely you did't think Biblical scholars would overlook manuscripts of such importance?

 

[okinrus]

Jenyar, I think there's something a bit wrong with that site. The Waldensees were a medieval heresy, beginning with Peter Waldo; they would not have been able to create the old vulgate translation. Actually, I believe St. Jerome translated into latin using both hebrew and greek sources.

 

[Jenyar]

The site only says they used the Italic version (which was translated in 157AD). I don't read that to imply they translated it, otherwise you would be right.

I looked it up:

The Old Latin Vulgate (AD157)
The word 'vulgate' is Latin for vulgar or common. The Old Latin Vulgate is a version. It was used by early believers in Europe when Latin was in popular use. It was sometimes referred to as the Itala version.

The Old Latin Vulgate must not be confused with Jerome's Vulgate, which was produced over 220 years later in AD 380. Jerome's Vulgate (also written in Latin for the Roman Church) was rejected by the early Christians for almost a millennium. The Waldenses, Gauls, Celts, Albegenses and other groups throughout Europe used the Old Latin Vulgate and rejected Jerome's Vulgate.

- Bible versions​

But from a cursory reading I can see that there are more complicated issues involved, especially regarding the Waldenses:

There are modern writers who attempt to fix the beginning of the Waldenses from Peter Waldo, who began his work about 1175. This is a mistake. The historical name of this people, as properly derived from the valleys where they lived, is Vaudois.
- The Waldenses and the bible [aparently unsubstantiated]​

I don't have time to check for possible bias in these sites, but I detected some anti-Catholic sentiments (in the vein of "our Bible is better than yours") that I can't associate with, but probably have to do with the persecution of the Waldensian church initiated by Pope Lucius III in 1184, as a Protestant denomination. I'll read up a bit when I've got more time . I expect to see a lot of people appropriating things to support their own authority. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

 

[Jenyar]

As I suspected: most sites that cite "early Waldensian use" are Baptist. It looks like they are invoked to sidestep Catholic origins and as a symbol of martyrdom under the Papal inquisitions. Of course, I don't see rejecting purgatory and veneration of the saints as heretical, so I share that bias. But I don't share the baptist's "ancient origins envy" against the RCC, and neither do I think what was once corrupted is doomed to stay corrupted.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

My friend,

That's why Jesus came. To make my and your faith complete, to justify our hope in God, and release love and mercy from performance anxiety. For what is a promise of God if it is not certain?
*************
M*W: Prove that Jesus came. Prove that Jesus was a promise from God. Profe that Jesus is the dying demigod savior.

Prove that Jesus is the saviour.

Prove that God is the Creator.
*************
M*W: The only hope in God is hope in the self.

 

[okinrus]

What made the Waldenses heretical was they taught that without giving up everything material man would not be saved. The Waldenses were not a Protestant denomination, but I believe they still existed after the Protestant reformation. In fact, they were supposed to have received sacraments in catholic churches.

The Albigensians were never really Christians; they have beliefs drastically different than baptists and most other Christian denominations.

 

[enton]

Well, the Bible is inerrant for those who are worthy to open it.

 

[786]

Gladly:

Matthew 9
Jesus Heals a Paralytic

Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."
At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, "This fellow is blaspheming!"
Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, "Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...." Then he said to the paralytic, "Get up, take your mat and go home." And the man got up and went home. When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.​

So which is easier? To heal the sick or to forgive sins?

My friend they are both the same, if God has given you authority, duh!!! If God gave you the authority to forgive sins then it is not hard for you to forgive sins because you have authority.

Peace be unto you

 

[786]

He said the law was a curse because without the law there was no breaking of the law. The law came and death came with the law.

The law was no curse to Jesus because He is the law. Remember, Jesus is the Word. But Jesus was also the law fulfilled. So Paul is not calling Jesus a curse.

The law ceased to be a curse upon Jesus' death. Jesus fulfilled the law and by His death He conquered death.

The Law was a blessing by God. It is the the way how we should live. The problem with you is that you are taught that when you break a law it is death and you going to hell.... That is not the case. God knows that we sin, so he forgives.

Peace be unto you

 

[786]

Of course He did. Joh:14:6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Huh? Where is the crucifiction in this verse?

Peace be unto you

 

[Jenyar]

My friend they are both the same, if God has given you authority, duh!!! If God gave you the authority to forgive sins then it is not hard for you to forgive sins because you have authority.

Peace be unto you

And because of the resurrection, Jesus still lives and still has that authority. Do you understand it now?

 

[786]

Who are you to know that God still gave him authority. BTW Muslims believe in the Second Coming. and oh yeah he will die when time comes.

Peace be unto you

 

[Jenyar]

Who are you to know that God still gave him authority. BTW Muslims believe in the Second Coming.

Because God did not ever take away his authority.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

1 Cor. 15:24-28 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.​

and oh yeah he will die when time comes.

Peace be unto you

1 John 1:2
The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.​

Jesus is the life... or as He puts it: "I am the way and the truth and the life" (John 14:6). He already conquered death, so he won't die again. "For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him" (Rom. 6:9).

 

[786]

Because God did not ever take away his authority.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

1 Cor. 15:24-28 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.​

1 John 1:2
The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.​

Jesus is the life... or as He puts it: "I am the way and the truth and the life" (John 14:6). He already conquered death, so he won't die again. "For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him" (Rom. 6:9).

Hi,

BTW I was talking about the Muslim view, not the Christians view point. I should've made it clear oh well.

It is clear that many times the Quran and the Bible are on the opposite sides of the table, and so we must try to seek which one is true, by the WHOLE Book. I mean we can't discuss by saying "the Bible says this so the Quran is wrong" or "Quran says this so the Bible is wrong", this would be an illogical discussion.

Peace be unto you