The Inadequacy of Atheism

[scorpius]

maybe someone such as you would treat the environment with respect, but it obviously doesn't happen with the majority of the world.

isnt majority of the world RELIGIOUS?
why would an atheist who knows we only have this life and this planet to live on destroy their own home?
Id think the religious with their haven/afterlife belief,would be less concerned with air.water polution,global warming and such mainly b/c they think they'll be in haven later laughing at those drowning in shyt here on earth.
anyways thats what some of them say.

 

[Prince_James]

Light Gigantic:

Does not dharma translate to "moral order"? Are you then claiming that Atheists are incapable of acting morally?

 

[Michael]

The Inadequacy of Atheism


"People in this age eat their food without washing beforehand. Monks break their vows of celibacy. Cows are kept alive only for their milk. Water is scarce. Many people watch the skies, praying for rain. No rain comes. The fields become barren. Suffering from famine and poverty, many attempt to migrate to countries where food is more readily available. People are without joy and pleasure. Many commit suicide. Men of small intelligence are influenced by atheistic doctrines. Family, clan and caste are all meaningless. Men are without virtues, purity or decency." (Visnu Purana 6.1)

This is one of many Vedic predictions for our current age. As one of its many symptoms is always mentioned the prevalence of atheism. Why? Because atheism is the root cause of the pitiful condition of this age. If the knowledge of higher reality is lacking, there is no question of life in harmony with the universal order (dharma). And dharma being neglected, all the above (as well as other) symptoms of decline appear as reaction.

- J. Adbaita

The general principle advocated here is that the universe operates under certain laws and disharmonizing with them is the root cause of all calamity - therefore the greatest calamity is atheism (whether it appears in the guise of organized religion or outright denouncement of the notion of superior maintenance in the universe)

Therefore the root cause is Atheism?
No, this makes no sense.

Actually rereading the whole thing again - it’s a typical type II error – stuff like a Monks celibacy is linked with poor weather – which is obvious to even a blind man riding by on a bus, idiotic. Poor weather is the main culprit add to that a badly informed society where Cast and blood lineage is revered over that of natural ability and personal talent and you can ensure that there is some fool ruling the masses with little care about their well being and hence a poor safety net when naturally occurring draught does occur (probably nice castles and palaces though).

Conclusion:
- Faulty reasoning leads to a type II error.
- Cast system leads to poor Leaders based on blood line not ability.
- Years of disconnect with the commoner clouds Leaders judgment on providing in times of draught (as these louts are usually waited on hand and foot and provided for at the expense of the masses)

Solution:
A sensible democratic Atheistic society with investment of time and resources into R&D to protect the environment during times of drought instead of wasting society’s resources worshipping fairy creatures.

 

[lightgigantic]

well - in short just a few things people have missed

- the statement refers to monks breaking vows of celibacy - so since monks tend to be religious the verse is refering to more than mere institutional stamps of religion - so all the talk of 80% of the world being theistic and other stats doesn't mean much unless you can also verify the quality of such practices

- The present age, kali yuga, is just beginning - we are less than 1.5% into the new kali yuga

- dharma is a word that doesn't translate easily into english - basically it means the irreducable or essential quality of something (so the dharma of water is wetness, because such a quality merely becomes dormant when it undergoes such extreme transformations as freezing or pressurizing) - dharma cannot be an artificial imposition - so the dharma of human beings is religiousity (comes from Latin religio(n-) obligation, bond, reverence, or perhaps based on Latin religare - to connect.) - in otherwords acting in a way fully conscious and connecting to the nature of superior maintenance in this universe is religion and acting according to one's limited reasoning of happiness and distress in accordance with one's bodily designation is atheism - in this way one can determine atheism existence even in the guise of theism

 

[lightgigantic]

Ah yes, the so called 'kali yuga'. Are you reading any Evola currently?

No - I had to do a google search to even understand what you were talking about

 

[spidergoat]

acting in a way fully conscious and connecting to the nature of superior maintenance in this universe is religion

How about this:
Cultivating full consciousness and connecting to nature's superior maintenance is spirituality.

 

[Godless]

Atheism is not inadiquate! What is inadiquate is belief in some diety of which you have no proof of, what is abnormal is the amount of gods there has been in human history, how do you posibly know that your god is the right one? How do you not call yourself "atheist" to all the other gods that have been created. BTW Christians were once called "atheists" for not believing in Roman gods!!

 

[lightgigantic]

Michael

Actually rereading the whole thing again - it’s a typical type II error – stuff like a Monks celibacy is linked with poor weather – which is obvious to even a blind man riding by on a bus, idiotic.

so in other words you advocate that there is no universal reaction to our activities? In otherwords as long as you appear to be correct and virtuous you get the exact same results as a person who is correct and virtuous

Poor weather is the main culprit add to that a badly informed society where Cast and blood lineage is revered over that of natural ability and personal talent

actually you can not find a scriptural quote anywhere of caste being determined by janma (birth) - you can find numerous quotes that say it is determined by guna (qualities) and karma (activities) though - determining caste by birth is another aspect of atheism (acting in disaccordance with the universe, in this case evidenced by scriptures) - perhaps you don't recognize it because it is in the guise of theism - atheism is more widespread than you credit - I don't know if that is a cause of happiness or grief for you

and you can ensure that there is some fool ruling the masses with little care about their well being and hence a poor safety net when naturally occurring draught does occur (probably nice castles and palaces though).

I can't see how this remark can be isolated to a historical era - it still seems relevant and an accurate description of the reins of power at the moment, even though theistically we have plummeted as a society

Solution:
A sensible democratic Atheistic society with investment of time and resources into R&D to protect the environment during times of drought instead of wasting society’s resources worshipping fairy creatures.

Unfortunately the advancement of science is not governed by the immediate needs of people

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." - einstein

 

[lightgigantic]

Atheism is not inadiquate! What is inadiquate is belief in some diety of which you have no proof of, what is abnormal is the amount of gods there has been in human history, how do you posibly know that your god is the right one? How do you not call yourself "atheist" to all the other gods that have been created. BTW Christians were once called "atheists" for not believing in Roman gods!!

perhaps they were called atheists by foolish people -

to answer in brief - its common for one who is totally bereft of seeing the essential qualities of any given field to get snagged up on details

 

[lightgigantic]

How about this:
Cultivating full consciousness and connecting to nature's superior maintenance is spirituality.

yes - that is a fine general definition - the next q's are how do you qualify such cultivation and connection ( in other words how do you determine the absence or presence of full consciousness and connectivity to nature)

 

[Godless]

perhaps they were called atheists by foolish people -

These foolish people, built empires, Christianity historically destroyed them, Rome fell when the idiot Agustine made christianity the religion of the state, these sob's killed anyone who opposed them, they were called atheist's for not believing in gods of another society! Not because they were foolish!

Victims of the Christian Faith
http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

Read a little history lightee!

 

[lightgigantic]

Godless
sounds like you are describing economic development (artha) rather than religion (dharma) - religiousity in pursuit of economic development (artha) sense gratification (kama) and even liberation (moksha) is not proper dharma - they are aspects of atheism that have a tendency to appear in theism

 

[Godless]

Well indeed if you study religion, it has always been about power, economic & political! There has never been in place a religion that did not lust for power, non of the Abrahamics one at least that I know of, perhaps some Budhism, or Taoism do not follow the same path, but literally all Abrahamic religions have been a quest for power political & economically! Read on! study, and soon you'll get your head out of your rectum!

 

[spidergoat]

yes - that is a fine general definition - the next q's are how do you qualify such cultivation and connection ( in other words how do you determine the absence or presence of full consciousness and connectivity to nature)

Good question. Mine is why would you want to? It's probably a matter of degree. How would you quantify beauty?

 

[lightgigantic]

Godless

Well indeed if you study religion, it has always been about power, economic & political!

but has it always been about the cultivation of these things?

There has never been in place a religion that did not lust for power, non of the Abrahamics one at least that I know of, perhaps some Budhism, or Taoism do not follow the same path, but literally all Abrahamic religions have been a quest for power political & economically! Read on! study, and soon you'll get your head out of your rectum!

Putting aside, once again, your relentless tendency to ad hom, why don't you tell us what scriptures and scriptural comentaries you have read so we know what bodies of work you are familiar with.

 

[lightgigantic]

Good question. Mine is why would you want to? It's probably a matter of degree. How would you quantify beauty?

It is very difficult to qualify these things unless you have an eternal reference point - this is the value of connectivity .... in the absence of which one is connected to one's bodily designation which translates as a medium for contention and disagreement (particularly in the association of a billion other similarly unconnected persons)

 

[redarmy11]

Yet another claim by religious zealots that atheists are amoral/immoral (take your pick) and without true joy. We have no Hand to guide us, therefore we are lost in eternal darkness. As usual, no evidence to support the claim is offered. Is the onus now upon atheists to provide evidence to the contrary, or would anyone like to take a stab at proving the opening assertions. Preferably using real-world evidence, and without recourse to dogma.

 

[spidergoat]

It is very difficult to qualify these things unless you have an eternal reference point - this is the value of connectivity .... in the absence of which one is connected to one's bodily designation which translates as a medium for contention and disagreement (particularly in the association of a billion other similarly unconnected persons)

thatsthewayitgoes

 

[Godless]

but has it always been about the cultivation of these things?

Yes!

Putting aside, once again, your relentless tendency to ad hom, why don't you tell us what scriptures and scriptural comentaries you have read so we know what bodies of work you are familiar with.

Oh! hell don't take the ad hom's literally! just been to used to getting frustrations out in here, I get them too so I dish them out, I don't take them literal, "once I did" but I've learned to live with it. But in your case, I'm begining to like you lol!! really! so determined, reminds me of SouthStar.

I read the bible kjv, I read the LDS bible, amongs others. My first indoctrination as a child, Catholic then christian teenager, babtist late teens early twenties, I chose atheism at the ripe old age of 21. I've been an atheist for lots longer than most kids here have lived, nothing new under the sun, always the same old rheoric. You are just one more in a long list here who have tried, to convince people that "your" god is real!

You won't learn anything about the history of the church by reading their bibles, their is no refference there about; wich burnings, killing heretics, and all of those whom the clergy of the time deemed as evil, possessed by "satan" or any other crap that they seem improper in each historical time. The real history is by reading history it'self. Why the hell did the Pilgrim come to America? to get away from religious prosecution, do you think that was something new? It has always been about power!! political & economically untill today just open your eyes and your senses you'll see it!

 

[lightgigantic]

Yet another claim by religious zealots that atheists are amoral/immoral (take your pick) and without true joy. We have no Hand to guide us, therefore we are lost in eternal darkness. As usual, no evidence to support the claim is offered. Is the onus now upon atheists to provide evidence to the contrary, or would anyone like to take a stab at proving the opening assertions. Preferably using real-world evidence, and without recourse to dogma.

actually you might be delighted (or distressed??) to read a bit more closely and see the wider qualities of atheism and how it is more prevalent than mere acceptance or rejection of religious instituitions or lip service to scriptures