The Impeachment of President Trump

[iceaura]

Not until Reid, 2008, was budget reconciliation used to pass a non-budgetary bill, and without a sunset provision.

So? It's been in frequent use since 1980.

"It probably did" is a non-argument.

It's a statistical observation - the gerrymandering is what made the manipulations possible, and the consequences of the gerrymandering are much of what made the manipulators largely immune from prosecution.

Meanwhile, without those anomalies that appear to be evidence of flagrant vote manipulation, Trump loses the electoral college as well as the vote.

It's like Roberts is the star of the Marvel movie in your head.

? I supposedly approve of Roberts? You have quite the imagination.
He has virtues, relevant ones, which puts him in a higher class of judge than Thomas or Kavanaugh - but

No, even in the judiciary, the judge has no power to coerce what witnesses are called.

But he does have serious influence on procedure - such as whether or not McConnell must hold a fair trial with witnesses under oath and responding to subpoena, how the vote will be taken, etc. Procedure.
The only way to overrule Roberts in such matters, should he choose to bring his leverage to bear, would be by holding a vote of the entire Senate on each separate procedural decision he makes. And that may not work very well - McConnell may lose those votes. Having Roberts's backing might be good enough cover for the likes of Sasse, others trapped in the endless humiliation of having traded their reputations and pretensions of integrity for the promises of a cheap grifter who doesn't value them and never will.

Roberts has a big stick, remember - the Republicans depend on his partisan bias toward them on the Supreme Court - and no favorable opinion of Trump. He has no worries about keeping his job. And he has extensive partisan Republican experience - he's met a lot of wealthy perps like Trump, and suckers who fell for their pitch or were bent over by their threats.

And establishing a secret ballot would likewise have no input from Roberts

Nonsense. He's overseeing procedure, remember? If he wants it, he has more input into such decisions than anyone else in the room.

And all you have are baseless, leftist conspiracy theories.

There are more than 70,000 2016 Presidential votes inexplicably missing from gerrymandered Democratic districts in Michigan. Similarly in Wisconsin, around Milwaukee especially, and a couple of other places in which Republican gerrymandering has taken hold (and the Russian influence seems to have made a difference, btw). We see anomalies and unexplained statistical oddities in the vote counts of several States that have Republican administrations and gerrymandered electoral maps, and essentially no States that don't ( minor, by comparison) I simply noted the fact - without explanation. No particular mechanism posted, just the correlation. You provided the obvious inference, the conspiracy - not me.

Because it is an obvious possibility, of course. Anyone looking at the evidence can see that - even y

Dems simply didn't turn out because Hillary was a crap sandwich.

That's true, of course. Meanwhile, the Republicans turned out because Trump talked big, bragged about being rich, and told them they were smart and patriotic and real Americans.
Clinton still won the vote by millions, the flagrant evidence of vote fraud and voter manipulation still sits there in the record, and Trump is still doing what he has done all his life - cheat the weak, fellate the strong; rob the decent and kind, befriend the bullying and evil; punch down, suck up.

Which means the President of the United States is sucking up to the likes of Vladimir Putin and Mohammed bin Salman - trying to be friends with the strong men, get respect from them, just like W did and apparently for the same reasons: genuine American elites despise him.

Which means the President of the United States is throwing little Guatemalan and Salvadoran and Colombian kids into dog kennel cages their parents are not allowed to visit - trying to bully their parents by taking and hurting their children, as W's military did in Iraq and apparently for similar reasons: to intimidate and terrorize people so they won't defy American edicts about how they should behave when under attack by American allies.

Which means the President of the United States has gold plated his toilets - trying to live as he thinks a rich, confident, great man lives, as every tinhorn strongman on the planet does and apparently for the same reasons: to impress the ignorant and violent with an appearance of great wealth so they will glory in his praise of them and do his bidding against their supposedly common political foes.

So Make America Great Again means having the American President caging and abusing refugee children, sucking up to the perfumed princes of Saudi Arabia and their bone saw assassination squads, catering to the whims of journalist-murdering Russian strongmen for unspecified reasons, re-arranging the deployment of American soldiers and advisory personnel in combat zones to maximize the profits from leasing his name to hotel complexes, cheating at golf, governing by Twitter feed, and lying at high volume about everything, in public, without shame or even a pretense of hiding the fact.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

And I'm just posting this:

 

[iceaura]

Leftist simpatico of collectivists, I guess.

Most of them are rightwing - especially the louder ones.

Yeah, as Laurie pointed out, many evangelicals are defending Trump and Billy Graham himself reportedly voted for Trump:

? You post that like it's news.
That's the Republican base, as assembled by Nixon and solidified by Reagan.
Trump=Republican Republican=Trump.
The fundies and the Republicans were a natural fit, once Nixon had demonstrated that the Republicans could have the white racial bigot vote for the asking - Lyndon Johnson having kicked them to the curb with the Great Society and the voting rights acts and so forth. The fact that the white racial bigots and the white fundamentalist Christians were largely the same people had for some reason been overlooked, downplayed.

The only lesson is an old one: whenever a Republican was talking about the overwhelming importance of character in a President, as they did for the entire eight year tenure of the rightwing corporate friendly Reagan continuation Bill Clinton, they were completely full of shit.
Whenever Republicans were talking about the necessity of military competence and familiarity in the Commander In Chief, as they did throughout the eight year tenure of what lefties called the best Republican President of the entire twentieth Century, Bill Clinton, they were completely full of shit.
Whenever they talked about fiscal responsibility and paying one's way and balancing the US budget, as they did whenever the President was a Democrat like Bill Clinton, they were completely full of shit.

And so forth. The Republican Party, like fascist Parties in general a product of organized crime/corporate capitalism moving into politics, has no real ideology other than winner take all expediency - the ideology of capitalism if it is allowed to move into politics unchecked. After four decades of such bait and switch, constantly shifting and self-contradicting politics, the Republican voter has little or no memory of their political beliefs and stances from a year ago, let alone a guiding ideology that provides continuity and consistency over decades.

And that's part of why they - the Republicans, the Party of law and order this year - did not impeach Trump after his first month in office, when he had been in constant violation of the Emoluments clause, when the financing of his inauguration party had been a bizarrely illegal arrangement populated with Russians and shadowed by Chinese and Zionist figures, when he had installed his children in the White House and provided them with security clearances against the recommendations of the intelligence agencies whose job it was to vet such people, when he had demonstrated that he did not consider himself bound by any silly oath of office, when his promise to reveal his tax returns and put his business interests in a blind trust had been filed with yesterday's news about the inauguration crowd and the fact that it rained, when almost his first executive actions had been to restore control of the drone wars to the unaccountable CIA and set off the biggest conventional bomb in the US arsenal in somebody else's country just to hear it go bang.

 

[Vociferous]

So? It's been in frequent use since 1980.

Yeah, like I said, for its intended purpose, until Reid broke precedent. Glad you finally comprehend.

It's a statistical observation - the gerrymandering is what made the manipulations possible, and the consequences of the gerrymandering are much of what made the manipulators largely immune from prosecution.

Meanwhile, without those anomalies that appear to be evidence of flagrant vote manipulation, Trump loses the electoral college as well as the vote.

Yeah, yeah, [chorus]"a vast right-wing conspiracy"[/chorus], right?

? I supposedly approve of Roberts? You have quite the imagination.
He has virtues, relevant ones, which puts him in a higher class of judge than Thomas or Kavanaugh - but

No, you seem to think he has superpowers in comparison to his actual, Constitutional impeachment duties, even as described by his predecessor.

But he does have serious influence on procedure - such as whether or not McConnell must hold a fair trial with witnesses under oath and responding to subpoena, how the vote will be taken, etc. Procedure.

Nope. Procedure is wholly determined by the Senate, and with a Republican majority, it's what Republicans want procedure to be. And just like the House, witnesses can appeal Senate subpoenas to the judiciary. Seriously, educate yourself.

The only way to overrule Roberts in such matters, should he choose to bring his leverage to bear, would be by holding a vote of the entire Senate on each separate procedural decision he makes. And that may not work very well - McConnell may lose those votes. Having Roberts's backing might be good enough cover for the likes of Sasse, others trapped in the endless humiliation of having traded their reputations and pretensions of integrity for the promises of a cheap grifter who doesn't value them and never will.

Roberts has a big stick, remember - the Republicans depend on his partisan bias toward them on the Supreme Court - and no favorable opinion of Trump. He has no worries about keeping his job. And he has extensive partisan Republican experience - he's met a lot of wealthy perps like Trump, and suckers who fell for their pitch or were bent over by their threats.

See, Roberts is the hero in your little fantasy. But no, all procedure will be ironed out and voted on before Roberts is even required to preside. Roberts' duty will be to enforce those procedures, nothing more.

Nonsense. He's overseeing procedure, remember? If he wants it, he has more input into such decisions than anyone else in the room.

More ignorant twaddle. He enforces the Senate determined procedure, he doesn't have any hand in deciding procedure. If the Senate decides that each witness only has 30 seconds to answer each question, Roberts is the timekeeper. If the other side interrupts out of turn, Roberts is the umpire.

There are more than 70,000 2016 Presidential votes inexplicably missing from gerrymandered Democratic districts in Michigan. Similarly in Wisconsin, around Milwaukee especially, and a couple of other places in which Republican gerrymandering has taken hold (and the Russian influence seems to have made a difference, btw). We see anomalies and unexplained statistical oddities in the vote counts of several States that have Republican administrations and gerrymandered electoral maps, and essentially no States that don't ( minor, by comparison) I simply noted the fact - without explanation. No particular mechanism posted, just the correlation. You provided the obvious inference, the conspiracy - not me.

Not inexplicable, just crap sandwich Clinton.

Dems simply didn't turn out because Hillary was a crap sandwich.

That's true, of course.

Meanwhile, the Republicans turned out because Trump talked big, bragged about being rich, and told them they were smart and patriotic and real Americans.
Clinton still won the vote by millions, the flagrant evidence of vote fraud and voter manipulation still sits there in the record, and Trump is still doing what he has done all his life - cheat the weak, fellate the strong; rob the decent and kind, befriend the bullying and evil; punch down, suck up.

No, just the electoral college, doing its intended job.

Which means the President of the United States is throwing little Guatemalan and Salvadoran and Colombian kids into dog kennel cages their parents are not allowed to visit - trying to bully their parents by taking and hurting their children, as W's military did in Iraq and apparently for similar reasons: to intimidate and terrorize people so they won't defy American edicts about how they should behave when under attack by American allies.

Wow, you're even ignorant that those pictures of kids in cages came from the Obama administration. Don't look that one up. I'm starting to feel like I'm telling a child Santa doesn't exist. Yes, iceaura, Santa does exist.

 

[Vociferous]

Most of them are rightwing - especially the louder ones.

Really? James R and Quantum Quack? Rightwing?

Lyndon Johnson having kicked them to the curb

LBJ was an unabashed racist.

The only lesson is an old one: whenever a Republican was talking about the overwhelming importance of character in a President, as they did for the entire eight year tenure of the rightwing corporate friendly Reagan continuation Bill Clinton, they were completely full of shit.
Whenever Republicans were talking about the necessity of military competence and familiarity in the Commander In Chief, as they did throughout the eight year tenure of what lefties called the best Republican President of the entire twentieth Century, Bill Clinton, they were completely full of shit.
Whenever they talked about fiscal responsibility and paying one's way and balancing the US budget, as they did whenever the President was a Democrat, they were completely full of shit.

Well, someone's definitely full of shit. "what lefties called the best Republican President of the entire twentieth century, Bill Clinton"

After four decades of such politics the Republican voter has little or no memory of their political beliefs and stances from a year ago, let alone a guiding ideology that provides continuity and consistency over decades.

Projection from people desperately trying to disavow their hand in slavery, Jim Crow, more black abortions than births, bigotry of low expectations, a hand out instead of a hand up, etc..

And that's why they did not impeach Trump after his first month in office, when he had been in constant violation of the Emoluments clause, when the financing of his inauguration party had been a bizarrely illegal arrangement populated with Russians and shadowed by Chinese and Zionist figures, when he had installed his children in the White House and provided them with security clearances against the recommendations of the intelligence agencies whose job it was to vet such people, when he had demonstrated that he was not planning on being bound by any silly oath of office.

Watch it. Your usual conspiracy theories are starting to sound anti-Semitic too. That slavery euphemism is starting to fit a bigger picture.

 

[iceaura]

Yeah, like I said, for its intended purpose,

You said different.
The precedent was to use it to beat the filibuster - when the use of the filibuster changed, which was a precedent break, the use of reconciliation simply followed, which was according to precedent.

Projection from people desperately trying to disavow their hand in slavery, Jim Crow, more black abortions than births, bigotry of low expectations, a hand out instead of a hand up, etc..

Nobody here is disavowing anything - except you, when confronted with timelines and similar physical facts.

Well, someone's definitely full of shit. "what lefties called the best Republican President of the entire twentieth century, Bill Clinton"

Seems accurate enough, which grounds the humor. Clinton actually enacted most of the aspects of Reagan's agenda that were enacted, for example.

LBJ was an unabashed racist.

So? The entire southern fraction of the Democratic Party was racist at the time. The racial bigot vote was the part of the "solid south" that Nixon raided - enabling Republican victories in national elections for decades to come, starting with Reagan's dog whistle campaign in 1980.

You have this habit of posting trivial irrelevancies as if they were replies to something. Any idea what that one was supposed to address?

Really? James R and Quantum Quack? Rightwing?

Maybe James - not sure. It doesn't affect the meaning of his posts, which are issue focused, so I don't bother speculating.
Meanwhile: Most of them, not all of them. It's plain English, the word "most". It means more than half.

Watch it. Your usual conspiracy theories are starting to sound anti-Semitic too.

As you have no idea what my "usual" theories of any kind are - at least, you haven't been able to paraphrase them, or label them accurately - you might want to go easy on that line of irrelevant personal attack.
Your difficulties become especially critical when "conspiracy" turns up.
The problem may be that you don't know what a conspiracy is in the first place - you ever look the word up in a good dictionary? It's not a synonym for observation, for example - your most common misuse. Neither is "theory", btw (your second most common misuse, iirc).
Not that it matters directly - your attempts at personal denigration via misrepresentation will continue no matter what improvements in reading comprehension you manage - but if a quick visit to a good usage dictionary* is all you need to straighten out this Rep media feed "conspiracy theory" bs it would be a shame to miss the opportunity.

* ("prescriptive", which in practice here means nothing with the word "Webster" in its name).

 

[Quantum Quack]

Why are foreigners so hung up on US politics? I realize that as goes the US so goes the world, but the way you guys pick one side, as if you live here. Leftist simpatico of collectivists, I guess.

Actually you pose a good question... why are we?
The USA has a population of migrants ( please excuse the lack of reference to indigenous as I didn't want to drag them into a stupid discussion with bigoted right wing conservatives)
As such the USA has been able due to fortune and insight to set a global "Value" agenda of ideals that surpass their original authoritarian English over lords.
They, the migrants, developed and evolved the notion of "devotion to an abstraction and ideal" called a constitution rather than a an identity or person. ( eg. the contemporary form of Corporate structure we see today)
They promoted over time the notion of "truth Justice and the American way", which led to the establishment of the modern United Nations and the formation ultimately of the Universal declaration of human rights. It was with those values enshrined in the constitution that allowed the USA to take a pivotal role in most WW2 recovery and growth.
They saved Australia's ass in the battle of the Coral sea ( against Admiral Shigeyoshi Inoue) , lost up to 700 sailors in the process, sacrificed so much for our freedom and future alliance. Do not doubt the tremendous debt of gratitude involved in the successful outcome of this particular battle. ( regardless of other strategic or political agenda Australia's national language is still English where as it could very easily have become Japanese)

The ongoing 5 eyes intelligence network is just one of the many outcomes that Trump is currently threatening. ( Don't worry the ASD ( Aust. Signals Dir.) will most definitely have a recording of Trumps phone call to the Ukraine president and a hell of a lot more that is legally required to remain classified BUT ONLY if Australia agrees to it.)

....Then along comes a person (Trump) who has absolutely no idea of any of that and literally sh*ts on anything that the world holds in respect and high regard for the USA.
That seek the establishment of a form of monarchy, a one party state, that has control over the world greatest nuclear arsenal and military machinations. ( and economic/patent monopolies)
A person who rises to the role of Dictator/King and is supported by those who do not treasure the notion of secular, non-discriminatory, bi- partisan, constitutionally empowered democratic Government.

Ignored all the hard work of the previous generations in establishing international law, human rights, trade negotiation mechanisms and other international agreements. ( post ww2 globalization)

Essentially it is incredibly disappointing and terribly sad that "Superman " ( metaphor for freedom of the press) is fake news and that the ideals the world thought were important are just inconvenient rubbish under the feet of red neck morons that can't handle criticism and have the arrogance to ask why we and not you are so fu*kin' awkward ( re: your Gif image meme)
Trump has and is continuing to capitalize on the most significant weakness in the USA democratic system. The Republican party supports his endeavors.
You support his endeavor.
Why are we so involved?
We have to be...

 

[Quantum Quack]

@Vociferous
Do you think Trump attempting to create a personal, private back channel to a foreign power that is unrecorded is a good thing?
Do you think Trump is somehow entitled to use his office as POTUS in a way that has no anti-corruption provisioning?
If so, why would you trust any one in such a manner?

 

[LaurieAG]

You put economic growth and low unemployment down to Trump do you? Okay. Whatever you need to tell yourself.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion...n-strongest/aOpf5ZO3ToyQlBUl1mb5pI/story.html

Politics being what it is, nobody is surprised when Republicans harshly judge Obama’s handling of the economy. But wait — those quotes come from Democrats. That was former governor Martin O’Malley lamenting that wages haven’t improved in 12 years. It was Senator Bernie Sanders pointing out how bad the jobless numbers really are. With the exception of Hillary Clinton, who told the Globe that she would give Obama an “A” for “saving our economy,” candidates across the spectrum have acknowledged how threadbare this recovery has been.

 

[geordief]

@Vociferous
Do you think Trump attempting to create a personal, private back channel to a foreign power that is unrecorded is a good thing?
Do you think Trump is somehow entitled to use his office as POTUS in a way that has no anti-corruption provisioning?
If so, why would you trust any one in such a manner?

He is corrupting the Wind market now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2y2hil4L3o

 

[Quantum Quack]

He is corrupting the Wind market now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2y2hil4L3o

Yeah the unwriten third article of impeachment .... mentally unwell.

 

[geordief]

Yeah the unwriten third article of impeachment .... mentally unwell.

We are entering the post parody epoch of American civilization

Some light entertainment as we skirt the whirlpools of the apocalypse.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

He is corrupting the Wind market now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2y2hil4L3o

I was talking with a friend, the topic got changed to politics (or not) and on the subject of Trump: How could any women have sex with that man?

And now I know: It's his remarkable intelligence.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

But what about dishwashers:

 

[Beer w/Straw]

I hope this destroys Trump:

I hope this destroys Republicans that have their noses so far stuck up Trump's butt.

I believe former president Bush said "I'm a uniter not a divider." Trump is not Bush.

Maybe evangelicals aren't all stupid.

Quoting myself, blah.

I just saw this:

 

[Beer w/Straw]

I would have edited my post but I couldn't

Don't really know much about Cuomo yet I think he is not unwise to a barrage of utter BS.

 

[geordief]

I would have edited my post but I couldn't

Don't really know much about Cuomo yet I think he is not unwise to a barrage of utter BS.

Very quick thinker and takes on all comers.His father and brother are/were well known public figures.

Think he is trained as a lawyer.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I would have edited my post but I couldn't

Don't really know much about Cuomo yet I think he is not unwise to a barrage of utter BS.

making a pact with the devil comes to mind....where the end justifies the means no mater how deep you bury your principles and values...
Hopelessly flawed position .....
eg. The denial of Christs teaching to promote Christs teachings...is terminal hypocrisy.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

where the end justifies the means no mater how deep you bury your principles and values...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

 

[RainbowSingularity]

I would have edited my post but I couldn't

Don't really know much about Cuomo yet I think he is not unwise to a barrage of utter BS.

"i would prefer a pilot who has been married for 30 years to the same woman"

what a piece of shit !

i stopped listening at this point because i have heard plenty of WW2 nazi propaganda speeches to know everything else he is going to say and how he is going to say it.

... as long as your not jewish... (his opening statement theme to try and put the interviewer on the defensive[using anti-anti-zionism as an attack weapon to force a defensive position to a moral construct to force the listener to comply with ideological moral standards of normalcy])