Seattle
Valued Senior Member
He can't unless the SC has now become so political that it finds a narrow reason to find an out for him.
The lower courts have already decided for Congress. This won't change anything regarding impeachment however.
The Impeachment of President Trump
- Thread starter Quantum Quack
- Start date
The lower courts have already decided for Congress. This won't change anything regarding impeachment however.
That approach will lose, if history is any guide.
The nonvoter is more numerous, far more liberal, and far easier to reach with information and persuasion, than the "undecided" Republican voter. Those who attempt to cater to the fragile and fearful and badly misinformed "undecided" Republican will largely fail to attract the nonvoter, discouraging them by appearing indecisive and incompetent
(that's what's happening to Warren, who has been manipulated into defending her policies against invalid criticism and adjusting them on the fly according to what Republicans and their captured media claim are the concerns of the "undecided")
or corrupt Republican Lite (Buttigieg)
while leaving the supposedly "undecided" Republican to most likely vote as they always have - Republican. That's their default, and anyone who is still considering voting Republican after Cheney's War Corporation, Homeland Security, Abu Ghraib, hundreds of Senate filibusters, Trump's children's security clearances, and Trump's kennel cages with other people's children in them, is not really open to new information.
The undecided Republican is someone looking for an excuse - any excuse - to vote Republican. They will find one. They are not worth pandering to - such pandering will destroy the Democratic candidate's credibility, appearance of competence, and appearance of strength, for little if any gain.
Impeaching Trump will not.
Pre - Reagan. Pre-Nixon resignation, even. The Republican Party then was offering what are now labeled extreme leftwing initiatives (such as Social Security upgrades, Medicare expansion, ending wars started by Democrats - popular then, popular now.)
Example:
Source: https://www.medicareresources.org/basic-medicare-information/brief-history-of-medicare/
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
True, and then there was Barry Goldwater.
Meanwhile, among the dozens of grounds for impeachment lined up on the sidelines:
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30208282/trump-admit-crooked-charity-pay-2-million/
The funds Trump used were not from his own contributions to the charity, btw. They were other people's money. Not that it matters - by now anyone who gives money to Trump knows what they are paying for.
And he is still dealing like that - it's his art, this kind of deal:
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a30208282/trump-admit-crooked-charity-pay-2-million/
Example of campaign financing from his charity:
All three of his grown children were involved in this "charity". They got their wrists slapped.
The funds Trump used were not from his own contributions to the charity, btw. They were other people's money. Not that it matters - by now anyone who gives money to Trump knows what they are paying for.
And he is still dealing like that - it's his art, this kind of deal:
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Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
Do you? They prioritized Obamacare to the exclusion of shutting down GitMo, path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, etc.. The children his administration was caging weren't a priority.
So, five weeks later, the best you could come up with was to forget that Republicans exist?
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
First post in this thread. Wasn't even previously aware of it. So yeah, five weeks or five months, it would have been all the same to me.
All you could come up with is that Democrats broke Senate rules to get Obamacare, at the expense of that same effort to close GitMo, path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, etc.?
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
Your problem if you can't follow your own post.
Since you've managed to convince me you actually don't know...
They used budget reconciliation, not meant for passing legislation, to lower the vote threshold.
Not ignoring the very people they had to illegitimately use budget reconciliation to bypass.
See how that works? One entails the other.
And how was that breaking rules?
Well, if we follow the question back to the point about having Congressional control↑, it would seem you changed the subject.
Meanwhile, your point↑ about, "First post in this thread", is irrelevant, and saying, "Wasn't even previously aware of it", doesn't have much to do with anything, either.
Vociferous
Valued Senior Member
Again, budget reconciliation was never meant to be used to thwart the higher threshold for passing legislation. But we all know Democrats don't generally give a crap about rules, law and order, or anything that hampers their agenda. So if you're in that camp, I can see why you'd be confused.
If you can't understand how holding the presidency and both houses of congress gives a party the power of determining the priorities, I really can't help you. No accounting for you not being able to follow the very simple reality.
And? I don't care how old that post was. You seemed to act as if it took that long to "come up with" my reply, when that had nothing to do with it.
Yes, it was. That was the specific and explicit reason it was passed.
Passing legislation by lowering the vote threshold was the stated purpose of budget reconciliation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Budget_and_Impoundment_Control_Act_of_1974
Note that part of that bill concerns Presidential impoundments of Congressionally approved money, and makes such impoundments illegal. That appears to make Trump's impounding of the appropriated money, as he did, illegal on its face - regardless of whether it was intended to pressure Ukraine or not.
That illegality motivated two people in the loop - who might have been at risk if such a crime were prosecuted, and certainly were morally compromised - to resign their positions.
The bureaucrat assigned to manage that impoundment was subpoenaed by the House, but Trump ordered him to defy that subpoena - yet another count of obstruction of justice, and an abuse of power by Trump.
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
employing foreign governments with or without payment to cross national borders of legal right to create bias amongst national elections political process & swing voters opinions would come under espionage ?(technically?)
opposed to
having off shore donations into a political party
like the prostitution law
illegal to solicit ?
why did the republican party sudden start pushing the "anti foreign funding of political partys" ?
they suddenly pulled that out of their ass while they were standing in line to buy a sandwich
that seemed to be the biggest give-away that something was up.
... funny to think the Republican party were all anti-trump at one stage
now he is their poster boy
strange culture
i was listing to a news item about a dem who won a swing seat and the republican party are bussing professional hecklers around the country to disrupt and shout down their community speaches.
doesn't surprise me fake conservatives would be so openly rude and anti free speach.
anywho ... some middle aged white woman was singing the usa national anthem which seemed rather morose in taste to me
looked like some commy training camp
weird
and they cal themselves capitalist liberals lol
"land of the free" she sung
land of the Mexican children kept to live in cages ...
nope
doesn't sound like the land of the free
more hypocrisy than a greek thesaurus
opposed to
having off shore donations into a political party
like the prostitution law
illegal to solicit ?
why did the republican party sudden start pushing the "anti foreign funding of political partys" ?
they suddenly pulled that out of their ass while they were standing in line to buy a sandwich
that seemed to be the biggest give-away that something was up.
... funny to think the Republican party were all anti-trump at one stage
now he is their poster boy
strange culture
i was listing to a news item about a dem who won a swing seat and the republican party are bussing professional hecklers around the country to disrupt and shout down their community speaches.
doesn't surprise me fake conservatives would be so openly rude and anti free speach.
anywho ... some middle aged white woman was singing the usa national anthem which seemed rather morose in taste to me
looked like some commy training camp
weird
and they cal themselves capitalist liberals lol
"land of the free" she sung
land of the Mexican children kept to live in cages ...
nope
doesn't sound like the land of the free
more hypocrisy than a greek thesaurus
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., dismissed the impeachment process against President Trump as a political proceeding rather than a judicial one.
"I'm not an impartial juror. This is a political process. There's not anything judicial about it," McConnell told reporters on Tuesday. "The House made a partisan political decision to impeach. I would anticipate we will have a largely partisan outcome in the Senate. I'm not impartial about this at all."
sc: https://www.npr.org/2019/12/17/788924966/mcconnell-i-m-not-impartial-about-impeachment
"I'm not an impartial juror. This is a political process. There's not anything judicial about it," McConnell told reporters on Tuesday. "The House made a partisan political decision to impeach. I would anticipate we will have a largely partisan outcome in the Senate. I'm not impartial about this at all."
sc: https://www.npr.org/2019/12/17/788924966/mcconnell-i-m-not-impartial-about-impeachment
So it appears that the leaders of the Republican Party are going to take the art of lying to the next level.
Of course it is out of necessity a political process BUT it is also primarily a constitutional one.
Ironically, Trumps corruption of the Republican party is almost complete. ( as anticipated when he managed to win the nomination for POTUS)
Now unless you believe in divine influence of some sort ( perhaps a God wishes to teach a lesson about lying)...Trump must have something over these other wise smart people to force them into taking the position that they are...Something that Trump would not hesitate to make use of.
Other wise it is a bizarre "USA goes insane" situation IMO.
Sort of like, Trump: "If I go down we all go down, the Republican party will be finished"
The irony is that if he is successful with a BS impeachment trial, he most likely won't win the 2020 election, because the lying and fraud involved is so transparent and in your face, voters take a while to get over their disappointment at being treated like morons.
The outrage of a super rigged constitutional impeachment trial will be something worth watching....
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
the dems need to switch it up a notch and focus on climate change and what type of planet they are going to create for their grandchildren
if they want mad-max or if they want a nice modern world.
the age of tin-pot leaders has passed 100 years ago in the trenches of WW1
treating the world like a WW1 no mans land free-for-all is not where children can grow and play
the world needs leaders with vision and personal investment in the future.
Leaders that put the nation first at all times. Leaders that don't lie and do what they swore to do.
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Let us not forget that it the North American people that are really on trial here.
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