The illegality of a miscarriage..

What charges, exactly, are you referring to? It sounds to me like your imagination is getting the better of you.

EMTs are not equipped to secure scenes or look for missing people. There wasn't anything for an EMT to do until the mother was found.

The police have since posted an update:

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/26429578/fetus-found-at-dallas-high-school-was-result-of-miscarriage
Posted: Sep 02, 2014 4:22 PM EDT
Updated: Sep 02, 2014 4:22 PM EDT
By: myfoxdfw.com Staff - email


A fetus that was discovered Friday afternoon at an East Dallas high school was the result of a miscarriage, a spokesperson for the Dallas Police Department said Tuesday.

Police have “spoken to all involved,” and the incident isn't considered a criminal case, the spokesperson said.

The fetus was found in a Woodrow Wilson High School bathroom that both students and staff members had access to.

A school custodian was notified about the fetus Friday and told the principal, who then contacted police.

Originally, the bathroom was considered a crime scene when police first began investigating.

So apparently, there was some deciding factor that could have made this a CRIMINAL case instead of just an instance of some poor girl going through the pain of a miscarriage and trying to live with that... no, she could have, in some fashion, been a CRIMINAL for it?

I don't understand how there is ANY situation that could have made her a criminal - maybe if she had willfully endangered the baby through hard drugs, heavy drinking, and sumo wrestling? I don't know.

Maybe I'm reading into the wording they are using too much... but if I were in her place, and had the slightest notion that my loss could be used to file charges against me... hell yeah, I'd hide as well!
 
Being that it's Texas, and they have ass-backwards kinds of laws like this, where fetal-homicide laws are so insane as to take a woman who has suffered the heartbreak of a miscarriage and give her the 3rd degree, treating her like a CRIMINAL. The fact that this girl, if found, could face CRIMINAL CHARGES because of a MISCARRIAGE is abhorrent to the nth degree...
it appears that the MO of this girl would be that of someone that deliberately terminated the pregnancy.
there is also the possibility that this girl is brain damaged somehow.
a third possibility that this situation went viral, just spiraled out of control.

the initial reaction of the girl DOES support a deliberately terminated pregnancy though.
 
it appears that the MO of this girl would be that of someone that deliberately terminated the pregnancy.
there is also the possibility that this girl is brain damaged somehow.
a third possibility that this situation went viral, just spiraled out of control.

the initial reaction of the girl DOES support a deliberately terminated pregnancy though.

May I ask how you came to that conclusion? I haven't read anything as of yet where they posted any sort of interview with the girl, so knowing her motives, to me, is out of the question.
 
Why?

An ambulance should have been the only reaction and possibly a police officer or two, to try to find the missing girl to make sure she was okay and take her to a hospital to make sure she had expelled all of it and to make sure she didn't need a D&C. That should have been the extent of it. Not dozens of police officers, media called, helicopters, etc.. I mean really.
Who called the media? Or were they just listening to a police scanner.

The default reaction of the police, in all situations, is an overreaction. It HAS to be that way because peoples lives are at stake and you don't know the exact reaction needed until later and by then it might be too late.
It's the criminalisation of pregnancy that should be the biggest concern here.
Pregnancy is not criminal. You are making that up.
 
Who called the media? Or were they just listening to a police scanner.

The default reaction of the police, in all situations, is an overreaction. It HAS to be that way because peoples lives are at stake and you don't know the exact reaction needed until later and by then it might be too late.

Who's life was at stake here? The fetus? It was already dead. The girl? While possible, I doubt her life was in any sort of danger that the police force would be trained/able to deal with... that would be something paramedics would be needed for, IMHO. The rest of the school? What, is the girl going to start harming other students because of the miscarriage?

Pregnancy is not criminal. You are making that up.
No... but many places are making it more and more so that terminating a pregnancy (either artificially via abortion, or in the event of a miscarriage) is illegal, or gets you treated like you've done something illegal.
 
So apparently, there was some deciding factor that could have made this a CRIMINAL case instead of just an instance of some poor girl going through the pain of a miscarriage and trying to live with that... no, she could have, in some fashion, been a CRIMINAL for it?

I don't understand how there is ANY situation that could have made her a criminal...
Live babies have been abandoned in high school toilets before. Until the police investigate the possibility of a crime, they don't know. And if they don't immediately treat the scene as a crime scene, evidence gets destroyed. They HAVE to treat it as a crime from the start.
 
Who's life was at stake here? The fetus? It was already dead. The girl? While possible, I doubt her life was in any sort of danger that the police force would be trained/able to deal with... that would be something paramedics would be needed for, IMHO. The rest of the school? What, is the girl going to start harming other students because of the miscarriage?
You're not listening. I already answered all of that. Again, the police were there:
1. To investigate a possible crime.
2. To find a girl who was in need of medical attention, a witness and a possible suspect in #1.

I did not say the police were there to TREAT her, I said they were there to FIND her.

You guys are letting your imaginations and emotions (and politics) get the better of you.
 
It wasn't an unknown situation. They knew that there was a possible dead foetus in one of the bathrooms in what looked like a possible miscarriage.
yes, a POSSIBLE miscarriage, and EQUALLY possibly a deliberately terminated pregnancy.
they did not know the story bells.
The custodian reported it to the principal.
this is where she screwed up, SHE should have reported it.
It hardly warranted a police helicopters and dozens of police officers and virtually locking down the school, barring parents from entering or people from leaving.
i've heard of similar reactions over finding midol on a girl.

yes, it's insane.

i can understand the fetus bit, but midol??
come on guys, can't a girl relieve the pain in her guts without everybody going stupid over it?
 
You're not listening. I already answered all of that. Again, the police were there:
1. To investigate a possible crime.
2. To find a girl who was in need of medical attention.

I did not say the police were there to TREAT her, I said they were there to FIND her.

You guys are letting your imaginations and emotions (and politics) get the better of you.

Again, in this instance, a handful of police officers would have sufficed. There was no need to have what appears to be several dozen police officers converge on the scene.
I just think this whole thing was handled poorly to be honest... and the fact that this poor girl was so scared as to try and go through all this alone? That's the real crime in this... no wonder more women don't come forward and seek the resources that are available.
 
Again, in this instance, a handful of police officers would have sufficed. There was no need to have what appears to be several dozen police officers converge on the scene.
I just think this whole thing was handled poorly to be honest... and the fact that this poor girl was so scared as to try and go through all this alone? That's the real crime in this... no wonder more women don't come forward and seek the resources that are available.
if the girl used her brain, then you would be correct.
ONE officer would have sufficed.
as it was, SHE screwed up by not reporting it.

locking down schools, what kind of society are we breeding here?
 
if the girl used her brain, then you would be correct.
ONE officer would have sufficed.
as it was, SHE screwed up by not reporting it.

locking down schools, what kind of society are we breeding here?

My point exactly - what could be a simple mistake on the girls part, or (heaven forbid) a sudden inability of her body to continue the pregnancy, was turned into a full-blown lockdown and investigation. Especially if this is a case where her body spontaneously terminated the pregnancy, can you imagine how she must feel?
 
As previously pointed out, this is Texas, a Republican state,the state that gave us Georgie Bush II and Rick Perry, a state where theater trumps substance and reason all the time.
 
Not if you can't find the person, you don't. Finding missing persons is one of the key jobs of the police.
Well, what the janitor found was a fetus. If there is any chance it may need medical attention, or if he thinks the woman may still be in the immediate vicinity, EMT's should be the first people called. (From your own post, "Live babies have been abandoned in high school toilets before" - and these need medical assistance as soon as humanly possible.) However I agree that if it is clearly beyond help, and it's a case where the woman is certainly no longer at the school - calling the police makes more sense.

In most cases simply calling 9/11 is going to take care of both issues. Dispatchers are trained to decide who needs to respond.

a single officer would have been an underreaction though.
Can't imagine what threat or difficulty a woman who recently had a miscarriage could pose to police such that you would need more than one.
 
Who called the media? Or were they just listening to a police scanner.
No idea.

The default reaction of the police, in all situations, is an overreaction. It HAS to be that way because peoples lives are at stake and you don't know the exact reaction needed until later and by then it might be too late.
What did they think the danger was in this instance? That the foetus would rise from the dead and attach itself to someone's face and take over their brain? That the poor girl was going to attack someone with parts of her miscarriage?

Pregnancy is not criminal. You are making that up.
Tell that to the many women who are in prison for miscarrying and for stillbirths. Hell, they've even arrested and tied a woman's legs together while she was in labour and dragged her to a hospital and tried to cut her open without her consent because she chose to deliver naturally in a home birth. I can only wish that I was making it up.

Live babies have been abandoned in high school toilets before. Until the police investigate the possibility of a crime, they don't know. And if they don't immediately treat the scene as a crime scene, evidence gets destroyed. They HAVE to treat it as a crime from the start.
Why?

Women miscarry into toilets all the time. It's actually quite common.

I don't see how or why the response should have been dozens of armed police officers with a helicopter buzzing over head.

You're not listening. I already answered all of that. Again, the police were there:
1. To investigate a possible crime.
2. To find a girl who was in need of medical attention, a witness and a possible suspect in #1.
A suspect for what?

They already said that the foetus was so small, they could not even determine how many weeks it was. It was apparently "tiny". So why would they treat her as a suspect at all?

leopold said:
yes, a POSSIBLE miscarriage, and EQUALLY possibly a deliberately terminated pregnancy.
they did not know the story bells.
Since when is termination so illegal that it requires dozens of armed police officers and a helicopter buzzing over head? So why is it illegal if she did terminate her pregnancy?

this is where she screwed up, SHE should have reported it.
Why?

More than likely she was in shock. Miscarriage is a shocking experience. She probably did not even know what to do. Remember, she's just a kid.

The UK has great guidelines for miscarriage. This bit stood out:



If you miscarry at home or somewhere other than a hospital, you are most likely to pass the remains of the pregnancy into the toilet (this could happen in hospital too). You may look to see what has come away and you might see a pregnancy sac and/or fetus, or perhaps something that you think might be the fetus. You may decide simply to flush the toilet – many people do that automatically – or perhaps to remove the sac or fetus for a closer look. That’s also a very natural thing to do.

Whether or not you see a recognisable fetus, however tiny, you may wonder what to do with it. Flushing it down the toilet may seem right or it may not:

if the girl used her brain, then you would be correct.
ONE officer would have sufficed.
as it was, SHE screwed up by not reporting it.

locking down schools, what kind of society are we breeding here?
Well, you try and pass a giant blood clot out of your vagina, bleed profusely, realise that your baby was that blood clot and in the shock and panic (believe me, I've seen an experienced mid-wife come to pieces at finding a miscarriage in a toilet, not to mention the mother and myself), think about what the correct form of action should be in who you should be reporting it to, and tell me how you go. Remember, she's just a kid. If an experienced midwife had to be sent home from the shock of it, how well do you think a teenage girl is going to handle it? Because as an adult, I sure as hell didn't handle seeing it. The poor woman who delivered it did not handle it well at all, she completely fell apart. The midwife shook like a leaf and was in tears after the event. How well do you think a teenage girl is going to handle it?

As I said before, none of this is illegal. So treating her like a suspect when she had done nothing wrong is ridiculous. And frankly, the reaction by the police is downright stupid. One or possibly two would have sufficed in trying to find her. Their biggest concern should have been for her safety and paramedics should have been the ones swarming the schools looking for her to be honest, to make sure she was alright. Not armed police officers. What a shame they saw her as a suspect instead. They did more harm than good.
 
The default reaction of the police, in all situations, is an overreaction. It HAS to be that way because peoples lives are at stake and you don't know the exact reaction needed until later and by then it might be too late.
That may be true, but that's a separate problem that needs to be fixed.
 
That may be true, but that's a separate problem that needs to be fixed.

But it isn't true. Police are never suppose to over react. They are supposed to act with an abundance of caution. There is a very big difference. Police do not have a license to over react to any situation. In this case they clearly over reacted. They wasted taxpayer dollars And placed kids at risk.
 
But it isn't true. Police are never suppose to over react. They are supposed to act with an abundance of caution. There is a very big difference. Police do not have a license to over react to any situation. In this case they clearly over reacted. They wasted taxpayer dollars And placed kids at risk.

Oh, I agree. I meant that the idea that "The default reaction of the police, in all situations, is an overreaction" may be true. (I think they often overreact, but not all the time.) It's a problem that needs to be fixed.
 
What I don't understand is if the gal did this in a doctor's office, with an abortion, the system would not over react. Is the overreaction due to the gal not paying the medical system the expected fee for its protection racket? By not paying a doctor or hospital, she is required to pay lawyers. Nobody is allowed to do it for free, without extortion by the system to pay tribute.
 
What I don't understand is if the gal did this in a doctor's office, with an abortion, the system would not over react. Is the overreaction due to the gal not paying the medical system the expected fee for its protection racket? By not paying a doctor or hospital, she is required to pay lawyers. Nobody is allowed to do it for free, without extortion by the system to pay tribute.

I don't see any evidence of any kind of conspiracy here - especially a medical industry inspired plot. For years now, we have witnessed the militarization of police forces due to changes in law which have made it profitable for local police forces to confiscate private property. The she in this case will likely not pay lawyers, it will most likely be a public defender and it will be the taxpayer who pays for her lawyers.

It is likely police over reacted in this case because:

A) Police have the equipment, training and ability to muster that kind of force which has been largely funded by property seizures.
B) Like all public agencies, they need to justify their budgets; the more use, the more budget, else some one might question why they have all that capability and never use it.
C) There is nothing like media attention to get name recognition and advancement. Too often (e.g. Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc.) I think police forces let the glare of media and the prospect of becoming a media star overwhelm better judgment. And remember, this is Texas where that kind of public behavior by police is rewarded and valued.
 
A) Police have the equipment, training and ability to muster that kind of force which has been largely funded by property seizures.
B) Like all public agencies, they need to justify their budgets; the more use, the more budget, else some one might question why they have all that capability and never use it.
"Use it or lose it" is a common theme in police forces. Thus once they buy that military armored personnel carrier, they have to use it.
 
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