The "homophobic" lie

Tiassa said:
Oh, point #2 is definitely relevant. I just figure to not shoot from the hip on this one. My first response, for instance, is to wonder about how that relates to male bonding over GoG porn.

Incidentally, this is part of what I found so funny about the South Park LoTR/porno episode: every guy in town was obsessed with the idea of watching penises enter recta.

Let's have some fun and do some trivia (anyone's invited to answer):

1. Why is Ron Jeremy popular?
A) Because he's handsome, charismatic, and everything else a lady could want.
B) Because men are jealous of the number of women he's been paid to have sex with.
C) Because people are naturally attracted to short, tubby, hairy men nicknamed "The Hedgehog".
D) Because he is legendary for having blown himself.​

2. Essay: Why do you think so few people ever talk about the comparative qualities of the coital strokes of Ron Jeremy vs. Harry Reems?

3. Free answer: How many of Jenna Jameson's on-screen partners can you name?​

Anyway, my point is that when most of the men I know talk about porn, the one thing they don't want to talk about is the man in the scene. This could be, of course, the competitive aspect you've raised. But if you pay close attention when men are talking about porn they have in common, you'll notice that they are sharing a sexual experience while sublimating (at best) any consideration of the penis. The reality is that guys do get one another horny, but just don't want to admit it.
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I can't really answer any of those.

As for guys getting guys horny, there's a big difference between getting a guy horny by talking about hetero (or lesbian) sex, vs getting horny for a guy.

In all seriousness, I can't even fathom being turned on by another guy. I do, it the course of my ongoing "research" (of an unspecified nature) watch normal guy/girl porn. The most I ever consider of the male part is that

1) He's not so ugly that it ruins it

2) I can picture my self in that position

That's about it. This is all completely in the realm of my "scientific research" into ummm... err... never mind.
 
Hmph.

Xev said:

I'm sure that you could get a good deal of attention by "making out" with another girl in a mainstream bar, but in a less predatory sexual atmosphere it really doesn't attract undue notice.
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Maybe I should have included the sentence about setting.

At any rate, in one of my circles of friends (there are, I think, three that never seem to overlap), several of the men routinely greet one another with warm embraces. Now, admittedly, this did start specifically to make a point, and to make a point in Oregon. But it strikes me that if that sort of behavior is/was seen as "gay", why should people be so permissive or indifferent about various affectionate greetings between women?

I mean, it says something about men, but I haven't figured out exactly what.
 
Tiassa said:
Maybe I should have included the sentence about setting.

At any rate, in one of my circles of friends (there are, I think, three that never seem to overlap), several of the men routinely greet one another with warm embraces. Now, admittedly, this did start specifically to make a point, and to make a point in Oregon. But it strikes me that if that sort of behavior is/was seen as "gay", why should people be so permissive or indifferent about various affectionate greetings between women?

I mean, it says something about men, but I haven't figured out exactly what.
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We can't dismiss the overwhelming differences between men and women regarding ancient and powerful perspectives on sex. We have highly divergent agendas in this regard...
 
Outline: Links, homophobia, general perversion, rules, survey

Have some fun ....

• Black, Noel. "Ted Haggard's Crystal Cathedral: A Visit to the Gayest Place on Earth". TheStranger.com, November 6, 2006. See http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=100742

• TheStranger.com. "Descriptions of the HUMP! Films". October 3, 2007. See http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=408917

• Kiley, Brendan. "They saw the Hump! 3 ad and completely freaked out". Slog. May 14, 2007. See http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/05/they_saw_the_hump_3_ad_and_completely_fr

• Savage, Dan. "Hump! 3". TheStranger.com, May 2, 2007. See http://new.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=213753

• Sanders, Eli, et al. "Homo History". TheStranger.com, June 20, 2007. See http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=247561​

• • •​

3. The Thorn! Most Sundays, all that professional theater equipment might seem like overkill, but once a year New Life goes all out. It's their annual Passion play, called The Thorn, and it's amazing. They hire professional acrobats from Cirque du Soleil to twirl on hoops and bars that dangle from the rafters, use real tigers, and have hot guys in Roman centurion costumes marching through the halls and riding real horses in the parking lot.

The costumes are stunning. Satan is hulking and ripped and his makeup looks straight out of a Clive Barker movie. Jesus is a hunky man's man. The makeup used for his flogging on the way to his crucifixion is so authentic and so sadomasochistic that Pastor Brendle claims it influenced Mel Gibson's horny-thorny The Passion of the Christ. It really has to be seen to be believed, but I can assure you that it would be right at home on Broadway or in Vegas.

(Black)

• • •​

Beloved local icon Ivar Haglund meets his match in a pretty young woman whose love of clams sends her searching for a little sea-salty action. Native Seattleites will surely find themselves appalled by the results—though that doesn't mean they won't be turned on.

(TheStranger.com)

• • •​

HOW TO EARN EXTRA CREDIT!

All HUMP! entries will receive at least one screening. But a jury of sex experts, sex-positive film critics, and sex-obsessed porn fans select HUMP! entries for the Grand Prize Competition. We look for quality and hotness—films don't have to be slick, just hot—and entries made especially for HUMP! get extra credit. So get a leg up in porn by proving that you made your film just for HUMP! by including one—or all!—of these props or locations in your HUMP! entry:

• Ravenna Alehouse T-shirt (prop)
• McCormick & Schmick's matchbook (prop)
• Ivar Haglund bobblehead doll (prop, available at www.ivars.net)
• SAM's Olympic Sculpture Park (location)
• The Space Needle (location)
• Ken Schram (prop and location)

(Savage)
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Just for the record ... this is Ivar Haglund. And this is Ken Schram.

On that last, you'll love the Hump! 3 movie review for The Old Man and the Schrammie. Okay, the review isn't anything special, but still, it's just one of those things that is so twisted, it's funny. I'll leave Zombie Tapioca Love Fest 4000 out of it.

• • •​

Oh, damn. How could I forget the one link I was looking for in the first place?

Constant, Paul. "Fucking Around". TheStranger.com, October 3, 2007. See http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=408922​

Okay ...

Over one week, 3,565 Stranger readers responded to our online sex survey. Respondents ranged in age from 14 to 79, and results came from as far away as Italy, Germany, Australia, England, France, Japan, and China. But most of the results were from Seattle and Tacoma, followed by Portland, Vancouver, and a smattering from Eastern Washington ....

.... As for age, 6.63 percent of you are barely legal or completely illegal, 48.38 percent are in your 20s, 30.32 percent are in your dirty 30s, 9.69 percent are in your 40s, and the remaining 4.98 percent are screwing right up to the doorstep of the, um, "fellatey-80s" ....

.... Though 59.54 percent of all straight men have fucked butt, 72.76 percent of those buttfuckers—a surprising 43.32 percent of all straight men—have also had their butts fucked (although it's important to note that the poll doesn't distinguish between fingers, dildos, and fire hydrants), which could mean that straight girls have finally realized that they can lay down the you'll do me only if I get to do you law. On the other side of the anal fence, 94.23 percent of all gay men have fucked butt, and 92.39 percent have been fucked in the butt, which leaves eight gay men in Seattle who have yet to offer up their anal virginity. Start looking now, boys! ....

.... It's no Kinsey Report—duty, as well as the constant whining of online cranks, requires me to note that although this survey got enough of a response to count as a statistically valid sample of Stranger readers, it's by no means scientific. But this year's sex survey does prove a few things. Stranger readers are really into fucking, in all its gleeful, messy permutations. The majority of the respondents to this survey are in committed, happy relationships, and this hasn't hampered their sexual adventurousness in the least. Everywhere in Seattle—well, everywhere except for Magnolia—people are fucking, and in love, and doing every kinky, weird thing they can to keep their partners happy and to make sure that they're happy.

(Constant)
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Question:
If finding gay sex gross makes me gay, does that make me finding horse sex arousing not a horse?

And for the record, I fucking hate horses.
 
Really?
I fail to see the difference between being disgusted by sodomy between two males, and that between a woman and a horse.
 
Roman said:

I fail to see the difference between being disgusted by sodomy between two males, and that between a woman and a horse.
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And that's your problem. Don't make it anyone else's.
 
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iceaura said:
We are talking mostly about being afraid of something about oneself, not the actual real other person.
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No, I just meant that homophobia may not always be directly connected to sex, or one's own sex, if you prefer, but as a neurosis it could divulge more than the obvious. There are a slew of reasons. Another thought (but am too uninterested to research) is that homophobia seems to be typically a middle and lower middle class phenomena. Something to do with territorial pissing grounds I suppose.
 
Wait a sec here.

Are we saying that if I don't like squid, I really like squid?

Or as roman pointed out, that if I don't like being boned by a horse, I really like being boned by a horse?

Is it remotely possible that since I find the idea of sex of any kind with a male repulsive, that I really just plain find it repulsive?
 
superluminal said:
Wait a sec here.

Are we saying that if I don't like squid, I really like squid?

Or as roman pointed out, that if I don't like being boned by a horse, I really like being boned by a horse?

Is it remotely possible that since I find the idea of sex of any kind with a male repulsive, that I really just plain find it repulsive?
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Basically, what all these pages are trying to say is:

THERE IS A PSYCHO-BABBLE EXPLANATION FOR EVERYTHING.

And psycho-babblists can go on and on and on trying to convince themselves as well as others that they're right, and anyone who doesn't agree is wrong.

For the psycho-babblist, they're right just by virtue of saying so.

Baron Max
 
superluminal said:
Wait a sec here.

Are we saying that if I don't like squid, I really like squid?

Or as roman pointed out, that if I don't like being boned by a horse, I really like being boned by a horse?

Is it remotely possible that since I find the idea of sex of any kind with a male repulsive, that I really just plain find it repulsive?
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It's more a question of trying to figure out why certain people so passionately hate the notion of other people having homosexual sex when it is perfectly clear that those other people enjoy it and desire it. People go to great lengths to ostracize gays from society and deny them the ability to conduct their relationships in the way they see fit and to publicly humiliate and harass them when the opportunity arises.

That is more than just "not liking squid" that is committing yourself to belittling, mistreating and denying rights to everyone who enjoys their calamari. I don't personally think that all homophobes are closeted gays who deal with their self doubt by lashing out at others who remind them of their own issues, but that is one reason why some homophobes probably act the way they do. The others may well have different issues, but that sort of thing wouldn't me all that uncommon a reaction from a psychological point of view.

People are free to not be attracted to members of their own sex, and to not want to have gay sex, but that's different from wanting to deny gays the right to marry, or to adopt children.
 
Pandaemoni said:
People are free to not be attracted to members of their own sex, and to not want to have gay sex, but that's different from wanting to deny gays the right to marry, or to adopt children.
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Do I disagree with this? Of course not. But there's something a bit more visceral about considering gay sex vs eating squid also. This may account for the elevated reactions of some people. Yes? I think it goes directly to the heart of arguably the most fundamental drive of humans and any sexually reproducing species. Si?
 
Pandaemoni said:
People are free to not be attracted to members of their own sex, and to not want to have gay sex, but that's different from wanting to deny gays the right to marry, or to adopt children.
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No, I think it's ultimately the same issue!

But I'm not going to derail this thread onto the gay marriage bullshit, so....

Baron Max
 
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