The Holy Land is a Killing Field

spidergoat said:
You mean their current position as a content and happy people, living in harmony with their surroundings, desiring few material possessions, not worrying about the future, and never killing themselves?
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if these values are really at the forefront of their culture, you have to examine why after 10 000 years their society remains relegated to obscurity.... Or even why they are unique to the piraha. How is any other amazonian tribe is less content, less happy, less harmonious with their surroundings, less apt to suicide, more covetous and more embroiled in anxiety for the future due to taking on ideas of spirituality/religion?

Alternatively, their (apparent) esteemed social uniqueness could just as easily be attributed to the absence of numeracy in their culture.

(actually it appears from the wiki on them that they do have belief in spirits but that they are determined to be physical things ..... I know that western analysis of animism is frequently inaccurate, so its not even clearly established that they are precisely an atheistic culture).

In short, there are numerous problems with your proposal.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
Which of the Big 3 has the weakest claim to the holy land? They all can't have an equal stake, can they? To earn the title of Holy, what has to transpire? If a killing field is holy then what is a place of worship?
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There are many parts of the world were different religions cohabit. Because they don't expressly go about killing themselves and each other, it is not apparent to many westerners that there are in fact different religions in the area.
 
I think you are judging them with western values. What difference does it make that they are obscure? They do not value progress, expansion, fame, fortune, leisure, technology (they don't even make canoes). Maybe that is the secret to a long lasting culture.
 
lightgigantic said:
There are many parts of the world where different religions cohabit. Because they don't expressly go about killing themselves and each other, it is not apparent to many westerners that there are in fact different religions in the area.
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I happen to live in one of those countries. We call it multi-culturalism. To date there hasn't been a holy war fought in Canada.

Hmmmm...Holy land, holy war..... those two kind of go hand in hand. When did war become holy?
 
spidergoat said:
I think you are judging them with western values.
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given that you only have knowledge of them through a western medium ( a book you read about them), there's a good chance you are too (except your bias could take the view of romanticism)

What difference does it make that they are obscure?

They do not value progress, expansion, fame, fortune, leisure, technology (they don't even make canoes). Maybe that is the secret to a long lasting culture.
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then again, maybe it has nothing to do with their (apparent) atheism.

As mentioned, it could just as easily be attributed to the absence of numeracy in their society (..... or some other aspect of their culture that makes it difficult to integrate with the world at large -for instance I imagine that a tribe that has the tradition of smearing their excrement over esteemed guests might also enjoy the privilege of being isolated from the onslaught of industrial global marketing, being free from covetousness, etc ......) or even the geographic isolation that living in the amazon might afford (after all, you haven't established that neighbouring amazonian tribes are more covetous, more in anxiety, less in harmony, etc.)

And to cap it all off, it isn't even properly established whether they are atheists, unless you have a means to attribute animism to fall within its folds.

:shrug:

Seriously, your suggestion is full of holes, no matter which way you look at it
 
lightgigantic said:
The fact that they lost out to the invasion I guess ....

Gov't of Canada apologize for 100 years of atrocities.
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Hardly a holy war. I don't think the Inuit were aware that the church was conducting warfare. I don't think the church was aware of it either.

No one is cutting heads off here(psychotic cannibalistic bus passengers excluded). No one is getting lashed, being stoned to death, blowing up, or partaking in any of those nice things associated with holy war in other countries.

But we're in the West and as peaceful a nation as you can get, but we still are seen as the brutality tearing up the dirt a half a world away. Actually I prefer that shit over there. You want to blame us, go ahead. The trade off is that I'm here and not in the holy land.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
The trade off is that I'm here and not in the holy land.
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Its called parasitism.

US Weaponry Facilitates Killings in Gaza

by Thalif Deen

UNITED NATIONS - The devastating Israeli firepower, unleashed largely on Palestinian civilians in Gaza during two weeks of fighting, is the product of advanced U.S. military technology.

The U.S. weapons systems used by the Israelis -- including F-16 fighter planes, Apache helicopters, tactical missiles and a wide array of munitions -- have been provided by Washington mostly as outright military grants.

The administration of President George W. Bush alone has provided over 21 billion dollars in U.S. security assistance over the last eight years, including 19 billion dollars in direct military aid as freebies.

"Israel's intervention in the Gaza Strip has been fueled largely by U.S. supplied weapons paid for with U.S. tax dollars," says a background briefing released Thursday by the Arms and Security Initiative of the New York-based New America Foundation.
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http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/01/09-4
 
S.A.M. said:
Its called parasitism.
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Aren't you over here also?

SAM, here is peaceful Islam's big chance to show the world that they mean business. Be the first to lay down your arms, go hug an Israeli or kiss an American. Who fired the first shot we'll never know but surely a peaceful gesture on Islam's part would be acrowning achievement in recognition of being the first truly peaceful religion..
 
You're kidding right?

Ceasefires are declared by Palestine and broken by Israel

2009-01-06-chart2a.jpg

Figure 2. For conflict pauses of different durations (i.e., periods of time when no one is killed on either side), we show here the percentage of times from the Second Intifada in which Israelis ended the period of nonviolence by killing one or more Palestinians (black), the percentage of times that Palestinians ended the period of nonviolence by killing Israelis (grey), and the percentage of times that both sides killed on the same day (white). Virtually all periods of nonviolence lasting more than a week were ended when the Israelis killed Palestinians first. We include here the data from all pause durations that actually occurred.

The irony is that the victim is expected to stop resisting their own starvation first and still blamed when the oppressor adds murder to mayhem.
 
S.A.M. said:
You're kidding right?

Ceasefires are declared by Palestine and broken by Israel

We include here the data from all pause durations that actually occurred.[/i]

The irony is that the victim is expected to stop resisting their own starvation first and still blamed when the oppressor adds murder to mayhem.
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No I'm not kidding. I would probably get the same numbers but in reverse if I asked Israeli statisticians. Stats are for losers. This is Islam's big opportunity to prove to the world that they are the most peaceful religion. I would hazard to guess that there aren't a lot of Muslim sympathizers around, at least on this forum.
 
S.A.M. said:
Those are Israeli statisticians. Duh!
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So you think it's all Israelis who are against the Pals?

Then who are those "Israelis" who protest against Israel's actions when they feel it's against the Pals? Are they just actors who've been hired to play that part for the media?

Baron Max
 
What is so holy about anything on Earth? From land to war and everything in between, why is it worth fighting for? If it is because of a god then I will never understand. I am actually somewhat overjoyed that I can't make sense of it. Don't get me wrong, I would fight to protect your right to defend the much maligned Muslim multitude but never would I be prepared to die for religion. There is nothing holy about war or the land it's fought on.
 
Mere des ki dharti

Its a feeling that evades those who have never defended their land.
 
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