The God Who Is Boud By Emotion And Mistakes
- Thread starter Reiku
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Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
Is a 767 more complicated than an eagle?
(and again, I am not trying to prove God exists using design. I just wonder why this word 'design' is used by hard scientists at all. Determinism really should have gotten rid of it.)
Why not? Why believe in a god that is not infallible? Where's the use in that?
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
What's the use of believing that Daddy is fallable?
Connection to reality.
I see no reason to assume God is infallible.
Connection to reality.
I see no reason to assume God is infallible.
I wouldn't believe in a fallible God. The only reason I see for myself to believe in God would be that God is infallible.
A fallible God sure is "closer to reality", but such a God is also necessarily unreliable then.
IMO, having to rely on my fallible mind is bad enough, I don't need or want more unreliability.
A fallible God sure is "closer to reality", but such a God is also necessarily unreliable then.
IMO, having to rely on my fallible mind is bad enough, I don't need or want more unreliability.
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
And this last is I am sure the attraction of the infallible God and an infallible Daddy, preacher, Bible and so on. But Daddy can learn. And then one has real responsibility. And one can move towards a mutual forgiveness rather than the horrible one sided version in, say, Christianity.
For me to go further would not be comfortable for me. So I'll probably drop it from here. But this assumption by the monotheists that God must be perfect and never have erred and know everything is I think very damaging and gave a lot of theologians jobs and creates a lock of mocking back and forth on internet discussions.
Many pagan groups have Gods are fallable.
In that case, a person's belief in such an infallible God might simply be an extension of some previous, patriarchal or teacher-student relationships.
A perfect God is a perfect solution.
Question is only - which traditionally described God fills the bill? This is where the trouble is.
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
It is, in the abstract, always possible that a psychological explanation is a good determiner of the root. And not having a God does not eliminate the problem. One can do this with a text, an idea.
I don't think a perfect God is a perfect solution. I think one must torture oneself at that point, because it is so obvious it is not the case.
Yes, like "Mein Kampf".
Like I said, a perfect God is a perfect solution, so help me literalism!
Except that I don't know what a perfect God would be like, so the problem actually doesn't exist for me - other than the fear that the God as often described by Christians, is in fact the perfect God. I shudder at the thought!
I pose to you all the question:
What if:
The creator of the universe(suppose this one is Infallible), did not create us?
We humans ourselves are on the verge of being able to create new life, from scratch or at least heavily manipulate exhisting life.
What if:
The creator of humans was not the creator god, but another lifeform(origins unknown - but Fallible).
Do you suppose it is possible, for a cagey type of person(Abraham) to decide to build on a Fallible God, by combining it(them) with an infallible one? Thus obtaining many previous followers and creating a stronger (cooperative crowd controlling) force. Sound Familiar(Constantine)?
What if:
The creator of the universe(suppose this one is Infallible), did not create us?
We humans ourselves are on the verge of being able to create new life, from scratch or at least heavily manipulate exhisting life.
What if:
The creator of humans was not the creator god, but another lifeform(origins unknown - but Fallible).
Do you suppose it is possible, for a cagey type of person(Abraham) to decide to build on a Fallible God, by combining it(them) with an infallible one? Thus obtaining many previous followers and creating a stronger (cooperative crowd controlling) force. Sound Familiar(Constantine)?
That is the basic belief of many gnostic sects (such as the Cathars)--in the early church it was considered the most dangerous of heresies. Perhaps because they feared it was true.
I've read about the Cathars, very interesting indeed, that.
God?
Wow pick a hard subject for discussion why don't you
I assume you mean the Judaeo Christian god is the one you refer to here. I can only say the God is all things that man is, we are made in his image if you follow the belief structure. So, God is good, bad,evil, right wrong, etc... The Bible states that there is more then one God, and that "our" God wants to be above all others in our hearts. what can you say? God is. { if you believe }all else is merely conjecture.
Wow pick a hard subject for discussion why don't you
I assume you mean the Judaeo Christian god is the one you refer to here. I can only say the God is all things that man is, we are made in his image if you follow the belief structure. So, God is good, bad,evil, right wrong, etc... The Bible states that there is more then one God, and that "our" God wants to be above all others in our hearts. what can you say? God is. { if you believe }all else is merely conjecture.
Of course such might theoretically be possible. But that only shifts the issue a bit, without resolving it.
It could be some extraterrestrials that created us, sure. But so what? The problem of putting your faith into someone or something which is fallible still remains.
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
Every relationship I have every known had this quality. Including the one with myself.
(perhaps faith is a word I have not known, more like love and yearning)
Of course. But don't you want to get out of this unreliability? Don't you want that there be as little of it as possible, and preferrably, none?
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
Yes, I do. But I am not choosing my belief because it is a good one. I base it on experience and intuition and in hindsight it gets some bolstering from logic. Once I was presented with this idea (again) of a fallable god, amongst other ideas, I could feel it fit for me on a very deep level. I did not then decide to believe. I continued exploring. Beliefs come to me after long periods of immersion. I choose the immersion process intuitively, because it feels right. Later I can see that I might as well say I believe, since it is so similar to what other people mean by belief. I consider beliefs to be more surfacy things, thought in a body. My body and emotions sense a fallible god and thoughts of it being somehow other than then this came less and less.
I do certainly hope that we all can make this better. History has been one long nightmare with small oases - to mix metaphors.