The God Who Is Boud By Emotion And Mistakes

R

Reiku

Banned
Banned
Mz3 inspired this, in a thread he was talking about religious hatred.

God is said to be perfect, and also said to be non-erroneous. But Jehovah/Yahweh, is not impervious to mistake, and therefore he cannot be omnipotant (he is though in standards that nothing else is more powerful than He... and this is MOST EXPRESSED from the Hebrew word ''Most High.'' The irony to the current standard beliefs of fanatical Christians, Mormons, Witnesses and Jews, is that God CAN DO anything: This much might be very true from the theology of the Bible, but logical suggestion places a limit on this, especially when God Himself, as perfect as these fanatics like to interrogate, He is still prone to MISTAKES and even ATTACHMENT TO EMOTIONS.

There are (i think) three verses in the Bible, stating that God is Jealous... ''he is a jealous God,'' and ''I AM a jealous God.''

What is he jealous for?

He is jealous, according to scripture, of these false idols we have made for ourselves... these ''co-called'' gods and demagods who don't exist.

Here is another problem, directly related to Human psychology. You cannot be jealous of something that doesn't exist? But, then, i suppose we aren't talking about human psychology here.

And for Gods mistake...

Well, follow this: The Flood

6 Whe man began to increase in number on Earth and daughters of men were born unto them, the Sons of God* saw how beautiful they had them marry them who they so desired...

...4 The Nephlim were on the Earth in those days, and also afterwards** - ... and had children by the woman of men renown and old. The JHVH saw how great mans wickedness had become, and that every inclination of their hearts were evil...5 The JHVH was greived...''

GREIVED? For a God who must be expecting something, how could He be so surprised...?

''... The JHVH was greived that he had made man, and his heart was filled with pain...''

Well, God does make mistakes. So much for modern understanding of theology, waving our arms and proclaiming that he is perfectly impervious.

*or also known as the Sons of Anak, the Giants or the Nephlim. They are the fallen ones.

** which must mean that there wasn't only 8 survivors of the flood, because they MUST HAVE survived the flood.
 
Sure, perhaps God is emotional and has made mistakes. Maybe it is a developing universe. We are made in his image or her image. We are emotional. Why not God?
As above, so below.
And any pantheists would seem to have to admit God is emotional since emotions are a part of things.
The other monotheists also have emotional Gods.
 
Why would a 'God' have emotions to begin with? It makes sense for humans to have emotions that motivate them to keep alive, keep ahead, and reproduce; however, unless 'God' is in some kind of competative environment for resources and reproduction, I can't imagine why it would have any kind of emotion whatsoever.
 
Trying to understand God using only the limited human knowledge available is like an 18th century builder trying to understand how to build a nuclear reactor.

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
Trying to understand God using only the limited human knowledge available is like an 18th century builder trying to understand how to build a nuclear reactor.

Baron Max
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Well of course that assumes 'God' is real and not anthropomorphism of reality as evidence strongly is in favor for.
 
Non-Logical-Idea-Guy said:
as far as god being omnipotent goes ----> he is omnipotent, he can do anything INCLUDING THE ABILITY TO BE WRONG
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Perhaps. But remember, something that seems "wrong" today, just might prove to be "right" tomorrow. That scenario has played out numerous times in history, so....

Baron Max
 
Crunchy Cat said:
Well of course that assumes 'God' is real and not anthropomorphism of reality as evidence strongly is in favor for.
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But your "evidence" is only the limited things that humans can understand. Just like the 18th century stone mason trying to understand how to build a nuclear reactor .....he simply can't understand it no matter how hard he tries or how good a builder he is.

Baron Max
 
I know but it does say that jehovah aknowledged his incorrectnesss and being omniscient he probably wouldnt aknowledge that if he knew it was right in the long run but probably let out some novelty remark like - slow but steady wins the race or something.
 
Baron Max said:
Trying to understand God using only the limited human knowledge available is like an 18th century builder trying to understand how to build a nuclear reactor.

Baron Max
Click to expand...
I see your logic and I agree with it for the most part.
However, the flaw in your logic resides in the fact that although that 18th century person would not have our technological knowledge, he/she would still be a human being with the same brain as us; a brain with the same capability for understanding and intelligence, and would thus, eventually understand how a nuclear reactor works.
I never could stand people when I asked them a question when I was a kid, only to receive the reply: you're a kid and wouldn't understand.
How about God (if he exists) use his omnipotence and explain it to us and help us understand? If we, as his supposedly greatest creation, cannot comprehend creation, then we as a species don't seem to be destined for great things anyway.
 
mikenostic said:
However, the flaw in your logic resides in the fact that although that 18th century person would not have our technological knowledge, he/she would still be a human being with the same brain as us; a brain with the same capability for understanding and intelligence, and would thus, eventually understand how a nuclear reactor works.
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Sure ...given a few centuries of education and scientific innovations. But see, what you and others are doing here, right now, is trying to understand God while using only 21st century knowledge. So, in effect, it's exactly the same as the 18th century stone mason ....so ....why are you not willing to wait a few centuries?

mikenostic said:
How about God (if he exists) use his omnipotence and explain it to us and help us understand?
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Perhaps He is and you just can't understand it yet.

mikenostic said:
If we, as his supposedly greatest creation, cannot comprehend creation, then we as a species don't seem to be destined for great things anyway.
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So ...you're trying to figure out the 31st century knowledge using 21st century education and information? Is that all you're asking? :D

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
But your "evidence" is only the limited things that humans can understand. Just like the 18th century stone mason trying to understand how to build a nuclear reactor .....he simply can't understand it no matter how hard he tries or how good a builder he is.

Baron Max
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I don't think its a good anaology. On one hand there is 'God' which has mounds of evidence for being a psychological phenomena and none for being an external one. On the other hand there is a nuclear reactor (assuming you mean the man-made kind) which has mounds of evidence for being an external phenomena rather than an internal one.

In other words, there has to be a 'what' before the 'how' can be understood.
 
Crunchy Cat said:
I don't think its a good anaology. On one hand there is 'God' which has mounds of evidence for being a psychological phenomena and none for being an external one.
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Yeah, "...mounds of (21st century) evidence...." And no 21st century evidence for an external one. Perhaps one day we'll have the proper knowledge and evidence ...maybe in a century or two.

But in the meantime, why must you make a decision about it? Why not just realize that you don't know enough yet, so remain uncommitted? Is it so hard, so difficult, for people to say, "Gee, I don't know."? Why must you make up your mind about something like this now?

Baron Max
 
There is no evidence for justice in nature, nothing but blind indifference. Are we to believe God created parasites that live on a specific creature, eating them out from the inside in what must be an agonizing ordeal?
 
Baron Max said:
Yeah, "...mounds of (21st century) evidence...." And no 21st century evidence for an external one. Perhaps one day we'll have the proper knowledge and evidence ...maybe in a century or two.
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Perhaps.

Baron Max said:
But in the meantime, why must you make a decision about it? Why not just realize that you don't know enough yet, so remain uncommitted? Is it so hard, so difficult, for people to say, "Gee, I don't know."? Why must you make up your mind about something like this now?

Baron Max
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In the case of a generic omnipotent life form, I have no reason to accept or reject the idea; however, I think there is a very low probability of such an idea actually being true.

In the case of a specifically claimed life form (ex. Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Greek, etc. Gods), its fairly clear that they are the result of psychological phenomena.
 
Baron Max said:
Sure ...given a few centuries of education and scientific innovations. But see, what you and others are doing here, right now, is trying to understand God while using only 21st century knowledge. So, in effect, it's exactly the same as the 18th century stone mason ....so ....why are you not willing to wait a few centuries?

Perhaps He is and you just can't understand it yet.

So ...you're trying to figure out the 31st century knowledge using 21st century education and information? Is that all you're asking? :D

Baron Max
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My responses were written under the assumption that God exists. (I don't believe the Abrahamic God exists anyway)

Baron, of course the 18th century person would be clueless to try to understand a 20th century reactor, if someone doesn't help him understand.

Helping someone understand is exactly what God (assuming he exists) is NOT doing. The bible does not explain shit where science is concerned. It's part of the reason I refuse to believe any of that b/s. All we have is a controversial book with contradicting scriptures and a plethora of unverifyable historical fables; all the bullshit in that book, to me, is blatant proof God doesn't want anyone to understand.

Either God is too arrogant to explain creation to us, or he thinks we're too stupid; either one is reason enough for me to refuse to follow a deity like that.
 
That is a very interesting point of view, Reiku. I think that regardless of whether you believe in a God or you don't. He cannot be perfect if he makes mistakes because that is what desribes us as human; the fact that no one is perfect because we all make mistakes.
 
CutsieMarie89 said:
That is a very interesting point of view, Reiku. I think that regardless of whether you believe in a God or you don't. He cannot be perfect if he makes mistakes because that is what desribes us as human; the fact that no one is perfect because we all make mistakes.
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I agree. And I think He would be much more believable and easier to follow if He just 'manned up' to that, instead of having his children write a book constantly mentioning how great and perfect he is; maybe practice what you preach (humility).
 
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