The Goal

[draqon]

Atheist's non-existent death (non-existence) is the real heaven that the entire universe wants without knowing it.

Non-existence is perfection because there is no suffering. The absense of suffering is infinite joy. And if you think you couldn't experience joy in non-existence because nothing would exist, it doesn't matter because there is no desire or need to experience joy because everything is perfect.

No one could EVER get bored at being non-existence because feelings like boredom would not exist.

nicely said, I totally agree.

 

[Michael]

Then why not kill yourself now? *poof* instant non-existence.

 

[draqon]

Then why not kill yourself now? *poof* instant non-existence.

Because each one of us exists here for a purpose of fulfilling a soul and we will need that experience in the next life we are born in. Killing myself would be a waste...its like discarding bread crumbs when one could have eaten them.

 

[Michael]

Well then it seems you have a beleif in something other than non-existence after you die.
I personally do believe in pure non-mental existence - sure the energy will exist, perhaps indefinably. But not "me".

I've often thought, if you have no memories of your past lives, then what's so spacial about being "reborn". If there is no "you" then it really may as well be someone else. And if it's someone else, may as well say there is no rebirth - when you die, that's it.

 

[Yorda]

nicely said, I totally agree.

But it's depressing... because I want non-existence but it doesn't exist...

Then why not kill yourself now? *poof* instant non-existence.

Non-existence is non-existent.

I personally do believe in pure non-mental existence - sure the energy will exist, perhaps indefinably. But not "me".

Why do you believe something so illogical?

I've often thought, if you have no memories of your past lives, then what's so spacial about being "reborn".

Because you are reborn, life never ends. That's what is special about it. Would you really like to remember all your 784 quadrillion lives? How could you concentrate on your present life if you remembered all your lives?

There is no death, there is only life. When you "die" nothing happens, life just continues as usual.

If there is no "you" then it really may as well be someone else.

You are someone else than you were in your past life. But what does it matter? You will always feel like you are you, because there is no one else.

 

[lightgigantic]

sure in some traditions. in others love is central. or compassion. others focus on deep acceptance of the self. I just wanted to point out that you stated this focus on obedience as central as if it was central for all and it isn't.

the foundation of love and compassion or discerning the nature of the self is obedience

 

[Grantywanty]

The principle remains the same ...if one begins to feel bored, do something else.

I think boredom is only possible for those who can't entertain themselves. And I think that takes a very limited intelligence.

Baron Max

I like that you are not intimidated by eternity. Good for you.

 

[Grantywanty]

the foundation of love and compassion or discerning the nature of the self is obedience

I disagree. Not that this will surprise you.

 

[Grantywanty]

When we come to heaven we return to a child-like state of being. We are no longer separated from God into two genders, we are whole and one with God. Men and women want to unite only because they are separated from God, because they think they are separated from each other.

The heaven that we come to when we die is temporary, life is the only thing that is eternal. Change is the only thing that never changes.

What you have just described is not appealing to me. Is it really appealing to you?

 

[Grantywanty]

Because each one of us exists here for a purpose of fulfilling a soul and we will need that experience in the next life we are born in. Killing myself would be a waste...its like discarding bread crumbs when one could have eaten them.

What would these bread crumbs matter if you no longer existed and that was the good thing you seem to think it is?

 

[lightgigantic]

I disagree. Not that this will surprise you.

Suppose someone punched you in the face 5 times before pushing you to the ground and kicking you a dozen times. If you asked them why they did that and they responded because they love you and wanted to display compassion in their attempt to understand the deeper nature of their self, that would be a socially congruent occurrence?

IOW do you think that there are ultimately no rules for love, compassion or understanding the self?

 

[Yorda]

What you have just described is not appealing to me.

It's because you're too stupid to understand what it means.

Is it really appealing to you?

No. I would like eternal non-existence. You want to be non-existent too.

 

[Grantywanty]

It's because you're too stupid to understand what it means.

1) you are assuming that everybody wants the same thing
2) you did not need to be an asshole about it.

No. I would like eternal non-existence. You want to be non-existent too

Nope.

 

[Grantywanty]

Suppose someone punched you in the face 5 times before pushing you to the ground and kicking you a dozen times. If you asked them why they did that and they responded because they love you and wanted to display compassion in their attempt to understand the deeper nature of their self, that would be a socially congruent occurrence?

'socially congruent'? It would not have come from love. I do not need to be obedient to someone or some rule to keep me from doing that to the one's I love. My gut feelings would not impel me to do that. If you need rules or some authority to keep you from doing things like that, by all means follow those rules. I do not need them.

IOW do you think that there are ultimately no rules for love, compassion or understanding the self?

I do not need to obey anyone or anything to be loving. You have no faith in emotions and urges, so I understand for you how hard this is to understand. Do whatever you think you need to to protect others from what must seem like chaos inside you. For one moment consider that not everyone is like you. It might be that you judged your feelings and urges so long that they are like compressed springs likely to release with a lot of force or so it feels. It might be something else. I don't know. I do know that your assumptions about me and everyone are not based in reality.

 

[Yorda]

1) you are assuming that everybody wants the same thing

Everything wants to be non-existent but they don't know it. There is no exceptions to this. But you can only realize that you want it by becoming non-existent... when you are non-existent you will not complain about anything because you will agree that it is perfection.

2) you did not need to be an asshole about it.

It wasn't my fault. The God who created me against my will made me say it. If I had a choice I would have stayed in my non-existence so that I wouldn't have needed to say it.

 

[lightgigantic]

'socially congruent'? It would not have come from love. I do not need to be obedient to someone or some rule to keep me from doing that to the one's I love. My gut feelings would not impel me to do that. If you need rules or some authority to keep you from doing things like that, by all means follow those rules. I do not need them.

regardless of why or where the rules come, it still stands that love has rules (rules that are not the same as say "hate")

I do not need to obey anyone or anything to be loving. You have no faith in emotions and urges, so I understand for you how hard this is to understand. Do whatever you think you need to to protect others from what must seem like chaos inside you. For one moment consider that not everyone is like you. It might be that you judged your feelings and urges so long that they are like compressed springs likely to release with a lot of force or so it feels. It might be something else. I don't know. I do know that your assumptions about me and everyone are not based in reality.

whatever, but it still stands as above

 

[Grantywanty]

regardless of why or where the rules come, it still stands that love has rules (rules that are not the same as say "hate")

There are certainly patterns. But these patterns do not have to come from obediance to rules. I do not have to check some internal or external list of rules. Have you never had the sudden urge to gently touch a loved one's cheek? As one example amongst thousands, millions.

 

[Godless]

The concepts of heaven and hell are tools made to manipulate the ignorant masses, I see that it has worked very well, when even thousands of years after the concepts where made up people are still contemplating how one arrives at either end of the spectrum of Yin & yang!

There's no heaven or hell. Though many believe that heaven and hell are in your interpretation of how you live, I'm sure many dieing of starvation consider this earth hell, while others are so freaking filthy rich, consider earth heaven, where they can basically do whatever the hell they want. But the concept that when one dies will be either punished or rewarded is just simply a tool used by religion.

 

[Grantywanty]

The concepts of heaven and hell are tools made to manipulate the ignorant masses,

I find it strange that they were effective. They sound boring, empty, trite, soulless, passionless and rather dead for the most part.





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But the concept that when one dies will be either punished or rewarded is just simply a tool used by religion.

Well most religions do not have this concept. That moral edge is the focus of the monotheisms and to differing degrees.

 

[qwerty mob]

Dear OP,

Just go discover some activity that you enjoy which harms no one, and do it ceaselessly, tirelessly, and passionately; whether it's shuffleboard or phone sex.

That or go comtemplate the furthest thing from your mind.

For example, to me, that would be... hmmn...