The Goal

[Grantywanty]

Do any of the various heavens or enlightened states actually sound like where or how you would like to spend eternity? Why? Why not? What's missing? How would like it to be? Is the topic at all disturbing? (as a small aside: when I was a kid, the idea of being 'up' in a white heaven on clouds, singing and bowing down to God and smiling for eternity sounded rather, well, horrifying. Not because I wanted to frown or commit crimes. It was just the monochromatic - both literal and emotional - bleakness of it seemed horrible. So setting aside whether I thought I would get in or if it was real, I wasn't sure I wanted it to be real. The idea that the best thing I supposedly cuold hope for sounded horrible had this additional unpleasant irony of being the best thing I supposedly could hope for.) You?

 

[Photizo]

...What's missing?...

Your desire/consent to go there.

 

[Vega]

Do any of the various heavens or enlightened states actually sound like where or how you would like to spend eternity? Why? Why not? What's missing? How would like it to be? Is the topic at all disturbing? (as a small aside: when I was a kid, the idea of being 'up' in a white heaven on clouds, singing and bowing down to God and smiling for eternity sounded rather, well, horrifying. Not because I wanted to frown or commit crimes. It was just the monochromatic - both literal and emotional - bleakness of it seemed horrible. So setting aside whether I thought I would get in or if it was real, I wasn't sure I wanted it to be real. The idea that the best thing I supposedly cuold hope for sounded horrible had this additional unpleasant irony of being the best thing I supposedly could hope for.) You?

What kind of drugs are you on today???

 

[cosmictraveler]

It is up to each of us to believe in whatever we want to. If some want to believe that a turtle can give them enlightenment then so be it. Everyone has a brain/mind that can decide on what they think is correct for themselves to do in their beliefs and if not then they believe in nothing but themselves. There's no one that is wrong in thinking the way they want, only when they make others believe in what their beliefs are as the only way to achieve enlightenment or fulfillment.

 

[Baron Max]

Do any of the various heavens or enlightened states actually sound like where or how you would like to spend eternity? Why? Why not? What's missing? How would like it to be? Is the topic at all disturbing? (as a small aside: when I was a kid, the idea of being 'up' in a white heaven on clouds, singing and bowing down to God and smiling for eternity sounded rather, well, horrifying. Not because I wanted to frown or commit crimes. It was just the monochromatic - both literal and emotional - bleakness of it seemed horrible. So setting aside whether I thought I would get in or if it was real, I wasn't sure I wanted it to be real. The idea that the best thing I supposedly cuold hope for sounded horrible had this additional unpleasant irony of being the best thing I supposedly could hope for.) You?

I think you miss the entire point of "heaven". Heaven is where everything is perfect for you all the time. If you want to sit on a cloud and strum on a harp, then that's heaven for you at that moment. If you want to drink fine wine and eat a perfect piece of steak, then that's what you get at that moment. Heaven is ....well, heaven!

The other thing that you're obviously missing is that you don't go to heaven as a human. ...LOL!

Baron Max

 

[Cris]

The heaven concept is simply any personal perception of what would be seen as perfection.

If striving though life making improvements as you go makes you happy then that could be your heaven. But for most others that striving to survive life is not attractive so they woul imagine a heaven as the opposite.

But for eternity? Hmm - gotta be a lot of trying a bit of everything I'd guess otherwise boredom could be a big issue.

 

[Baron Max]

The heaven concept...
But for eternity? Hmm - gotta be a lot of trying a bit of everything I'd guess otherwise boredom could be a big issue.

Bored? How could anyone be bored if they could do anything they wanted to do any time they wanted to do it?

I've been retired for some 8 years now and I've never been bored in all that time. When I feel like doing something else, I just do it. How could I be bored?

Baron Max

 

[Yorda]

The purpose of goals is not to reach them. Their purpose is to create an enjoyable journey towards the goal. And because an eternal heaven or nirvana (non-existence) does not exist, the journey is eternal.

Beliefs are useful things, they can make life much happier even if they're just fantasy. Life is eternal, there is no escape from it. The only escape is the belief that there is an escape, like nirvana or heaven.

We used to know that we are eternal, but it made us depressed, so we forgot it. When we forgot it, then we thought we were mortal, so we got depressed, until we remembered that we were eternal again.

When we reach a goal, we get depressed because there is no longer a goal that gives us energy. The real goal is the eternal moment right now... to reach from 14:11:54 to 14:11:55.

 

[Reiku]

Heaven is relative to the observer... so heaven for me, might be hell for you... maybe this is why God has other universes, if they exist.

 

[draqon]

I desire to spend an eternity in different lifes...different scenarious.

 

[Michael]

Bored? How could anyone be bored if they could do anything they wanted to do any time they wanted to do it?

I thought the biblical heaven says you will be perfect (nothing to strive for physically) and have access to all information (nothing to strive for emotionally).

Seems really really boring.

Also, what about the fact that there is a HELL and many of your friends will be suffering there for eternity. Some people would go insane knowing their entire family and all of their friends were in HELL while they and they alone were in "heaven".

Anyway, it's just the ultimate carrot.... now pull yir cart ya mule!

Michael

 

[lightgigantic]

Do any of the various heavens or enlightened states actually sound like where or how you would like to spend eternity? Why? Why not? What's missing? How would like it to be? Is the topic at all disturbing? (as a small aside: when I was a kid, the idea of being 'up' in a white heaven on clouds, singing and bowing down to God and smiling for eternity sounded rather, well, horrifying. Not because I wanted to frown or commit crimes. It was just the monochromatic - both literal and emotional - bleakness of it seemed horrible. So setting aside whether I thought I would get in or if it was real, I wasn't sure I wanted it to be real. The idea that the best thing I supposedly cuold hope for sounded horrible had this additional unpleasant irony of being the best thing I supposedly could hope for.) You?

Anything we find pleasure in within this world is merely a perverted (BTW - I can anticipate that the word "perverted" is going to send you on a spin of the pursuit of liberties however it is meant in the sense of "not thought to be normal or acceptable") reflection of its origin in the spiritual world - while there is information available on the exact nature of the spiritual realm, its all to no avail as long as one's consciousness is absorbed in such reflections - thats why there is a primary focus on "obedience", but we should understand that that the activities after liberation do not necessarily hinge on issues of awe, reverence, fear etc

 

[Grantywanty]

What kind of drugs are you on today???

It's OK to simply say you didn't understand.

 

[Grantywanty]

I think you miss the entire point of "heaven". Heaven is where everything is perfect for you all the time. If you want to sit on a cloud and strum on a harp, then that's heaven for you at that moment. If you want to drink fine wine and eat a perfect piece of steak, then that's what you get at that moment. Heaven is ....well, heaven!

The other thing that you're obviously missing is that you don't go to heaven as a human. ...LOL!

Baron Max

That is certainly a small percentage of the world's population's idea of heaven. How many Christians who really like sex think they will be allowed to, for example, receive oral sex in heaven? Not many. My point is that often what is promised does not sound that appealing and I find that odd. Certainly a small minority of Muslims think that they get to have sex with a bunch of virgins - I don't know why this is so appealing, I mean think of another activity you really want to do with someone who does not know what they are doing - but I think they are in a minority.

 

[Grantywanty]

I've been retired for some 8 years now and I've never been bored in all that time.
Baron Max

And that's great. But 8 years is not a million. And a million times a million years, well that still is nothing compared to eternity. And probably some of the things you do you are exploring this or that for the first time.

 

[Grantywanty]

Heaven is relative to the observer... so heaven for me, might be hell for you... maybe this is why God has other universes, if they exist.

I agree with much of this. But then have you come up with a heaven that is a heaven you?

 

[Grantywanty]

thats why there is a primary focus on "obedience",

sure in some traditions. in others love is central. or compassion. others focus on deep acceptance of the self. I just wanted to point out that you stated this focus on obedience as central as if it was central for all and it isn't.

 

[Baron Max]

And that's great. But 8 years is not a million. And a million times a million years, well that still is nothing compared to eternity. And probably some of the things you do you are exploring this or that for the first time.

The principle remains the same ...if one begins to feel bored, do something else.

I think boredom is only possible for those who can't entertain themselves. And I think that takes a very limited intelligence.

Baron Max

 

[Photizo]

Heaven is relative to the observer... so heaven for me, might be hell for you...

Most definitely. Heaven for the redeemed who love God will be a spiritual union with Him in His Presence for eternity...union and communion with an infinite God will be anything but boring for any human being.

On the other hand, what is heaven for the redeemed would infact be hell for those not redeemed...imagine yourself as you are presently...and 'this' then united with, and in the presence of, God...when one considers this, the estate of the damned (separation from God for all eternity) is evidence of His mercy and kindness toward them.

 

[Yorda]

Atheist's non-existent death (non-existence) is the real heaven that the entire universe wants without knowing it.

Non-existence is perfection because there is no suffering. The absense of suffering is infinite joy. And if you think you couldn't experience joy in non-existence because nothing would exist, it doesn't matter because there is no desire or need to experience joy because everything is perfect.

No one could EVER get bored at being non-existence because feelings like boredom would not exist.

How many Christians who really like sex think they will be allowed to, for example, receive oral sex in heaven?

When we come to heaven we return to a child-like state of being. We are no longer separated from God into two genders, we are whole and one with God. Men and women want to unite only because they are separated from God, because they think they are separated from each other.

The heaven that we come to when we die is temporary, life is the only thing that is eternal. Change is the only thing that never changes.