The Gay Fray

I am . . . .

  • Homosexual

    Votes: 25 9.2%
  • Heterosexual

    Votes: 201 73.6%
  • Bisexual

    Votes: 31 11.4%
  • Other (I would have complained if there wasn't an "other" option)

    Votes: 16 5.9%

  • Total voters
    273
How do I put this gently? I'm sorry, but I'm not really sure I can.

If a man were to hold you down and force his erect penis into your asshole, would you argue he should not be charged with rape? See, there's a lot of, shall we say, "misguided" legislators and prosecutors out there who would charge him with rape. But rape is sexual intercourse against one's will. And as it stands right now, one can be charged with sexual assault or rape if they force their penis down your throat or into your asshole.

I recognize it's not the most elegant question, but I'm trying to figure the implications of your standard.

rape is an act of violence, whatever the logistics might be.

Also, where does love figure into it? I don't wish to take you wrongly here, but that statement about stupid romanticism, and the idea of "getting all worked up via some form of 'assisted masturbation'" seems to discount the state of love and trust that draws people together to build family units together. I mean, you're not really saying homosexuals can't love one another, right? But, then, what are you saying, as such?

well, i love humanity. i love my mom. i love my girlfriends. i love my brother and my dad. i love my dog. but that doesn't mean i think it's appropriate to have sex with them. it's appropriate to have sex, with a mate, ie. someone who you wouldn't mind having children with, a child being the natural result of sex many times. i just think it's silly to have to use impliments and fingers and assholes and battery operated devices to avoid having sex with a mate.

and then the next question i imagine would be regarding birth control. birth control is completely perverse and unnatural. obviously. humans try in every way shape and form to circumvent natural law. wanting to have sex without having to deal with the natural consequence of sex.
 
Implications and curiosity

Lori 7 said:

and then the next question i imagine would be regarding birth control.

Actually, no:

rape is an act of violence, whatever the logistics might be.

But if "penis + vagina = sex. that's it." is rape no longer a sex crime? I mean, is punching someone in the mouth rape?

well, i love humanity. i love my mom. i love my girlfriends. i love my brother and my dad. i love my dog. but that doesn't mean i think it's appropriate to have sex with them. it's appropriate to have sex, with a mate, ie. someone who you wouldn't mind having children with, a child being the natural result of sex many times.

I admit it strikes me as a curious standard.

You love your dog, but your requirement for a co-parent is that you "wouldn't mind having children with" them?

i just think it's silly to have to use impliments and fingers and assholes and battery operated devices to avoid having sex with a mate.

So can barren women and impotent men have mates?
 
Waffling on marriage, twenty-first century style?

"Better Late", Dan Savage notes in the title of a blog post. And I can only agree.

Bill Clinton on gay marriage:

I've never supported all the moves of a few years ago to ban gay couples from adoption. Because [there are] all these kids out there looking for a home. And the standard on all adoption cases is, what is the best interest of the child? And there are plenty of cases where the best interest of the child is to let the gay couple take them and give them a loving home. So I said, you know, I realized that I was over 60 years old, I grew up at a different time, and I was hung up about the word. I had all these gay friends, I had all these gay couple friends, and I was hung up about it. And I decided I was wrong.

That our society has an interest in coherence and strength and commitment and mutually reinforcing loyalties, then if gay couples want to call their union marriage and a state agrees, and several have now, or a religious body will sanction it, and I don't think a state should be able to stop a religious body from saying it, I don't think the rest of us should get in the way of it. I think it's a good thing not a bad thing. And I just realized that, I was, probably for, maybe just because of my age and the way I've grown up, I was wrong about that. I just had too many gay friends. I saw their relationships. I just decided I couldn't, I had an untenable position.


(qtd. in Savage)

I wonder if he really means, "I was so focused on the poontang that I couldn't figure out why anybody would be gay. But I'm over sixty now, and not getting as much tail, and maybe I'm thinking more clearly. Like the other day I, I did actually score this young hottie from Hillary's office—you know, banging her ass—and it suddenly hit me, 'Now, wait a minute ....'"

I mean, that would be funny. Hilarious, even. But we can only take what progress we get, and perhaps, as Savage suggests, presidents won't always wait until they're done to figure these things out.

Barack and Michelle Obama have gay friends too, they've seen our relationships too. Here's hoping that Barack "God In The Mix" Obama's epiphany on marriage equality comes while he's still in office.
____________________

Notes:

Savage, Dan. "Better Late". Slog. September 25, 2009. Slog.TheStranger.com. September 27, 2009. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/09/25/better-late
 
Texas!

Texas!
You've got to be f@cking kidding me!


Congratulations to Texas, and especially state District Judge Tena Callahan, who stood up to voters and the Texas Family Code on behalf of equal protection:

In a first for Texas and a sweeping rejection of the state's ban on gay marriage, a judge has cleared the way for two gay Dallas men to divorce.

A voter-approved state constitutional amendment and the Texas Family Code prohibit same-sex marriages or civil unions. And the Texas attorney general had intervened in the two men's divorce case, arguing that since a gay marriage isn't recognized in Texas, a Texas court can't dissolve one through divorce.

But Dallas state District Judge Tena Callahan ruled Thursday that the state's bans on same-sex marriage violates the constitutional guarantee to equal protection under the law.

She denied the attorney general's intervention and said her court "has jurisdiction to hear a suit for divorce filed by persons legally married in another jurisdiction."


(Appleton)

The attorney general is fuming, of course, and is preparing an appeal.

In a prepared statement, Attorney General Greg Abbott said he would appeal the ruling "to defend the traditional definition of marriage that was approved by Texas voters.

"The laws and constitution of the State of Texas define marriage as an institution involving one man and one woman. Today's ruling purports to strike down that constitutional definition — despite the fact that it was recently adopted by 75 per cent of Texas voters."

Hey, all the judge did was abide by federal law. You know, the U.S. Constitution? As in Article IV and Amendment XIV? Of the supreme law of the land—e.g., Article VI?

I mean, I'm sure AG Abbot is at least aware of these provisions of the Constitution. Perhaps the Republic State of Texas disagrees with them, but they're welcome to go back to Mexico if they do not wish to abide by the very same Constitution that adopted the Lone Star State into the Union.

Meanwhile, Dan Savage provides some analysis:

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott has vowed to appeal... because if these two men are allowed to divorce... if they end their gay marriage... that will undermine traditional marriage in Texas... because the existence of gay marriage is a threat traditional marriage... which is why these guys must stay gay married to each other.

See how that works?

I mean, come on. Texas. We can look back to February to see who predicted what; I think this decision is a surprise to a lot of people.

Full faith and credit.

Equal protection.

Texas!

Congratulations, Texas. And thank you Judge Callahan.
____________________

Notes:

Appleton, Roy. "Dallas judge paves way for gay couple to get divorce". Dallas Morning News. October 1, 2009. DallasNews.com. October 1, 2009. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...stories/100109dnmetgaymarriage.1d5a0d50d.html

United States Constitution. 1787. Legal Information Institute at Cornell University Law School. http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html

Savage, Dan. "Gay Marriage Ban Struck Down ...." Slog. October 1, 2009. TheStranger.com. October 1, 2009. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/10/01/gay-marriage-ban-struck-down

Council, John. "Texas Same-Sex Divorce Case May Prompt Constitutional Challenge". Texas Lawyer. February 2, 2009. Law.com. October 1, 2009. http://www.law.com/jsp/tx/PubArticleTX.jsp?id=1202427878355
 
tiassa i dissagree with your congratulations. All the judge did is his job, ie follow the consitution. That should be the stock standed bench mark for a judge (ie anyone who DOESNT do that SHOULDNT be a judge)
 
The Texas exception

Asguard said:

tiassa i dissagree with your congratulations. All the judge did is his job, ie follow the consitution. That should be the stock standed bench mark for a judge (ie anyone who DOESNT do that SHOULDNT be a judge)

Ordinarily, I would agree with that statement, but certain factors compel me to another position. In the first place, Justice Scalia has been on the Supreme Court too long to suddenly throw him off for being a bad judge. He's seventy-three years old, likely doesn't have a whole lot of years left, and hasn't managed to destroy the republic in his twenty-three years on the nation's highest bench.

Add to that the idea that Texas is subject to any number of jokes along the west coast and in the northeast, at least. This is a state where for years school textbook publishers created "Lone Star" editions that deliberately twisted historical narratives in order to satisfy the superstitions of local textbook adoption boards. It's a place where George W. Bush could be governor. It's a state that has no compunctions about executing innocent people.

Earlier this year, the governor suggested secession. That's how repugnant they find the union of the states.

So when a district judge in Texas stands up for the supreme law of the land, yes, they get applause. People in Texas need to know that, while we often find them something of an embarrassment, people do recognize they are part of the United States, and we're very pleased to find someone within the state's borders who understands the implications of their inclusion among Americans.

We have fifty states in the union, and they are all entitled to interpret the supreme law of the land as they see fit. And every once in a while, the federal judiciary has to step up and smack them back in line. Such as when the Supreme Court explained to Virginia that the days of anti-miscegenation laws were over. Or told Texas that people are allowed to perform sodomy. Or informed Arizona you can't beat confessions out of innocent suspects. Or the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals had to tell (you guessed it) Texas that dildos are legal.

Early analysis of the divorce case included one of the most insane statements I've yet encountered:

Charles W. "Rocky" Rhodes, a professor who teaches constitutional law at South Texas College of Law, doesn't believe the couple will prevail in a federal suit.

"I think right now the AG's office is going to win the battle. Most of the challenges based on full faith and credit to a state's refusal to grant a divorce to a same-sex couple have all failed to this juncture."

"A state, if it wanted to, could extend recognition to a same-sex divorce," Rhodes says. "But there really isn't, at this point, any law under full faith and credit to compel them to do so."


(Council)

This is the kind of thinking that goes on down there. Thankfully, Judge Callahan disagreed, and spared Texas some serious embarrassment in federal court. It's best to have these things resolved locally if possible. But they need to be resolved within the law, and that's a crap shoot in Texas.
____________________

Notes:

Council, John. "Texas Same-Sex Divorce Case May Prompt Constitutional Challenge". Texas Lawyer. February 2, 2009. Law.com. October 1, 2009. http://www.law.com/jsp/tx/PubArticleTX.jsp?id=1202427878355
 
The whole point in having a judge is to have some one who can consider not only what the law is, but what justice is as well.

That is also why a jury is involved and there is jury nullification.
 
Political calculation

Do Congressional conservatives have the mettle to challenge President Obama over the issue of gay marriage? The issue of civil rights for homosexuals has been a contentious issue in recent years, and one that has proven successful for politicians appealing to conservative values. And as the president's critics have relied so far on divisive appeals to emotion in lieu of more substantial discussion of issues, the current attempt by the City Council of Washington, D.C. to grant same-sex couples the right to marry provides conservatives with an excellent opportunity to seize the xenophobic attack without invoking themes of race, ethnicity, or religion.

City Council members introduced legislation Tuesday to allow same-sex marriage here. If it passes, as expected, Washington would be the first city below the Mason-Dixon line to allow such unions. The city’s bill is expected to become law by December.

But the measure is likely to draw harsh criticism from Congressional Republicans and conservative Democrats, many of whom face mid-term elections next year, and they could act to overturn it.

After Mayor Adrian M. Fenty, who supports the measure, signs it, Congress has 30 days to enact a joint resolution of disapproval. President Obama would have to sign that resolution for the city law to be blocked.

But even if, as most gay rights advocates predict, such a resolution is not passed, members of Congress could still try to attach a rider to another piece of legislation blocking same-sex marriage here.

“Opposition by some in the House already has been announced,” said Eleanor Holmes Norton, the city’s delegate to the House, adding that she did not believe the opposition would be enough to block the city’s measure.

“Opposition to civil rights is not new,” she said. “We should approach the rights of gay couples and families with the same resolution and results as we had for others who have sought their human rights in Congress and in the District.”

Same-sex marriage is legal in Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, and Vermont. In May, Washington passed legislation to recognize such unions from other jurisdictions, and Congress did not try to override that decision.


(Urbina)

The issue puts the Democratic Congressional caucus in a difficult situation. With many issues, the moderate core of the party and its few genuine liberals have found themselves stymied by conservative Blue Dogs—nominal Democrats who advocate Republican political themes—in issues ranging from the War on Terror to health care reform.

The question of how hard to fight against a resolution of disapproval is a taxing one. Liberal Democrats, such as Reps. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio and Jim McDermott of Washington will find an easy basic answer. These opponents of the Iraqi Bush Adventure and other measures related to the War on Terror have survived multiple re-election bids in the intervening years. Their seats are as safe as they come in Congressional parlance, especially "Baghdad" Jim's. For such legislators, fighting any attempt to quash Washington, D.C.'s move to grant marital rights to homosexuals is the obvious move.

But moderate Democrats have played more and more conservative on large issues in recent years, to the point that one might think Sen. Dianne Feinstein—who dismisses criticism from the political left—is actually a Republican. And this doesn't even begin to account for the Blue Dog faction that helped push through the Bush administration's extension of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to spy on American citizens, or balked at the prospect of a public health care option.

If we combine the GOP minority in the Senate with the Blue Dogs, there is definitely enough support there to pass a resolution of disapproval against gay marriage in Washington, D.C. The Democratic Blue Dog Coalition in the House boasts some 53 members, equaling a potential swing of 106 votes to the conservative bloc, which is enough to overcome the general Democratic majority (256-177).

This, of course, presumes bloc voting in the GOP and among the various factions of the Democrats, which leaves a twenty-seven vote margin to the conservative advantage (230-203).

Meanwhile, on the executive front, liberal supporters of the Democratic Party have expressed frustration with what they perceive as President Obama's mixed signals on the issue. He expressed lukewarm support for gay marriage during the campaign, invited well-known bigot Rick Warren, pastor of the Saddleback Church to give the convocation at his inauguration, maintaining the prior administration's position in related court briefs, and eventually reiterating his support after the LGBT community actually began demonstrating and threatening to withhold future support for his presidency. Indeed, the president is preparing to address the Human Rights Campaign at its 13th Annual National Dinner this Saturday, in advance of the National Equality March, despite a planned picket against his participation by the Gay Liberation Network and Queer Liberation.

The GOP, then, should start some wheeling and dealing. Do what it takes to bring the Blue Dogs into the fold. Get that resolution of disapproval passed; put it on the president's desk. Make Obama either sign the resolution or say, "Override me." And in the case of the latter, even if D.C. Congressional Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton and Utah Rep. Jason Chaffetz's predictions of insufficient support for the resolution are correct, the GOP does not walk away empty-handed. For too long, critics of the president have allowed racist paranoia to dominate their opposition. There is still a gamble worth taking on this issue, as it would allow conservative opponents to continue casting Obama as some sort of "other", but about something he does—something he chooses—as opposed to what he is or is not by nature. People are uncomfortable admitting that they are exploiting his ethnicity, spurious rumors about his birth, or his secret worship of Allah; but if Obama chooses to stand with homosexuals, Republicans gain traction among "middle Americans".

Additionally, pushing this fight would have the benefit of putting Blue Dogs in the awkward position of demanding that they choose between voters and the president; after all, in conservative terms, the scoreboard seems to be what matters. Blue Dogs who oppose the resolution must answer to the conservative districts where they won narrow victories, and those who support the resolution could find themselves at odds with the president, thus diminishing whatever appearance of genuine Congressional support people might imagine the president enjoys.

For once, the GOP finds itself in a no-lose situation. The gay fray will come to an end, eventually, and that end will reflect equal protection for homosexuals. If gay marriage in D.C. hastens the driving of judicial nails into this bastion of bigotry, all conservatives will have lost is time that would otherwise be spent denigrating themselves as religious nutters and paranoid bigots. On the eve of what otherwise appears a victory for gays, it is in fact conservatives who have the best political hand.

On the citizens' front, there is, of course, the outcry that the measure should be put to the people, and while a vote in D.C. might actually succeed in blocking gay marriage, it would be a short-term victory that lacks the political benefits of further alienating President Obama from the traditionalist base that keeps conservative candidates afloat during election season, and in line the rest of the time.
____________________

Notes:

Urbina, Ian. "Gay Marriage Bill Introduced in D.C.". New York Times. October 6, 2009. NYTimes.com. October 6, 2009. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/07/us/07marriage.html

Weinstein, Steve. "Obama Will Address HRC Dinner on Eve of March". The Edge. October 5, 2009. EdgeBoston.com. October 6, 2009. http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=&sc3=&id=97257
 
Poster ... um ... boy? Girl?

A belated Halloween story, and also just a bit heartwarming. Dan Savage writes:

"Our 14-year-old son Elliott debuted as Lady Gaga in West Hollywood for Halloween," writes Slog tipper Miss Poppy. "His father accompanied him, dressed as his body guard. Elliott drew a crowd as he lip-synched and danced to Lady Gaga's music. He was ecstatic."

Miss Poppy helped design and manufacture her gay son's costume, and Mr. Poppy, in addition to escorting the boy for this fabulous adventure, took some pictures and, in perhaps the cutest YouTube moment yet, the first comment on the montage was from the young man himself: "My dad let me post this."

But if this isn't cool enough already, here's the real kick in the chest: Elliott has been out, to his family, for two years. That's right, he came out at twelve, and his parents have stood by him every step of the way.

As Savage notes:

You know, whatever happens in Maine and here in Washington state tomorrow, where marriage equality and domestic partnerships are on the line respectively, we can all take comfort in something as seemingly trivial as a 14-year-old boy's night out in West Hollywood with his folks. I've said it before and I'll say it again: We are winning—despite the setbacks—because our families are on side now. It's almost impossible to imagine an openly gay 14-year-old twenty years ago, much less an openly gay 14-year-old with parents like Miss Poppy and her husband. Moms and dads like Elliott's—parents who aren't ashamed of their gay children, parents who love and support their gay children for who they are, parents who want their gay children to be safe and happy and treated equally—used to be the exception. Not anymore.

We are winning.

Do you get it yet?

It's over.

The only reason the fight continues is because American bigots just can't recognize that they've lost. They're fighting purely on instinct now, like a gravely wounded wild animal that just doesn't know when to die.

Liberty. Equality. Justice. These will win. Indeed, they already have. Those who need so badly to hate their neighbors just can't figure it out, and we're going to need to tally the score over and over and over again, still, for their benefit. Because, well, we already know that they're just not being treated equally unless they are held to be superior.

It's over. And little in the world would make me happier than to put this thread to rest, and have to admit that I was wrong. Once upon a time I said it wouldn't happen in five years. And, from that date, it probably won't. I'll have to look it up to find the exact period, but I've said variously that it wouldn't happen for ten to twenty years. And in all the world, probably only my daughter has the power to make me happier than I would be to admit I'm wrong.

Oh, hey. It's election day. Everything but marriage? I'll take it. We'll see what the returns bring.

Fuck. I guess I need a stamp.
___________________

Notes:

Savage, Dan. "'My Dad let me post this'". Slog. November 2, 2009. Slog.TheStranger.com. November 3, 2009. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/11/02/dad-let-me-upload-this-d
 
"Our 14-year-old son Elliott debuted as Lady Gaga in West Hollywood for Halloween," writes Slog tipper Miss Poppy. "His father accompanied him, dressed as his body guard. Elliott drew a crowd as he lip-synched and danced to Lady Gaga's music. He was ecstatic."

So your saying the kid didnt dress up for halloween?
 
Do you get it yet?

It's over.

The only reason the fight continues is because American bigots just can't recognize that they've lost. They're fighting purely on instinct now, like a gravely wounded wild animal that just doesn't know when to die.

I'll agree with that.

Indeed Tiassa, you are a great fighter for the cause, and I truly enjoy reading your posts. Your passion is evident.

However, the day all hatred and judgment will be eradicated, is when compassion and love are the only thing that motivates and reigns within the passions of the victorious side.

I do understand that when the oppressed have, for far too long been victimized, passions can be aroused, and anger can long be suppressed. Yet the day must come when, for the fight to be truly over, this too must be released. Remember, it is just as possible to be bigoted toward the bigoted and the ignorant.

All must learn to love, respect, and accept. . . not just the "bigots," but the "gay fray," as well, must learn to accept and love the "bible thumping" bigots, should they not? Even if they feel their way is wrong. It matters not what our opinions of each other lives are, it only matters that we all have lives, and families, feelings, hopes, traditions and dreams. Is this not what is, in the end, important?

. . . In related news. This warmed my heart, I thought it might warm yours too. It's nice to know the universal consciousness and global awareness are expanding rather than shrinking. ;)

Tuesday turnout was highest since '93 for city-only election
 
Mean People

Mean People
There are other words to describe them, but at least that phrase is civil


On the home front, Dominic Holden explains:

Pastor Joe Fuiten, who at first seems to be among Washington's more sane Christian fanatics, concedes that the campaign to reject Referendum 71 has "fallen short of the glory of God." In a statement posted over at the Tacoma News Tribune in response to an editorial (posted in full after the jump), Fuiten blames his former brothers-in-bigotry—Gary Randall and Larry Stickney—for disappointing the Lord and for failing to oppress the gays.

Fuiten dives into a tirade against his former cohort Randall for being exactly what The Stranger exposed Randall to be long ago: a greedy bigot who takes money from naive evangelicals and puts little of their contributions into the campaign. Today, Fuiten writes, "On August 28th, Mr. Randall promised 'All income is spent directly on printing, mailing, Internet promotion and going forward, media ads and expenses, rather than salaries or consulting fees.' We were promised 'Radio ads are running and more are on the way.' As it turned out, according to the PDC reports, virtually nothing was spent on media ads and precious little on anything else."

He goes on: "Because of the lack of strategic planning on our side of the R-71 campaign, I called our side a 'leaderless army.' Gary Randall objected to that. Maybe he was right. When you consider how little money was put into this effort by Randall's organization, maybe it should have been an armyless leader."

But Fuiten is not trying to be reasonable for the sake of, you know, thinking rationally about gay people, whose sweet gay love or even their despicable sodomy has done nothing to harm his flock. No, Fuiten is being reasonable because he's determined to oppress gay people in the most calculated way possible.

And, indeed, Fuiten's critique stings. The pastor is genuinely furious that Washington voters didn't reject homosexuals as even second-class citizens, and is looking for someone to blame:

The Tribune observed that the electoral decision was not made so much on the facts of the situation, but "the bigger factor in the election was R-71 opponents' failure to mount anything resembling a viable campaign."

The omission was two-fold:

First - The R-71 campaign failed to recognize and address the "undecided voters."

Second - A related omission, according to The Tribune, was that "supporters of traditional marriage couched their pitch in conservative Christian ideology and then spent the campaign talking only amongst themselves. R-71 might have failed had its critics offered persuadable voters practical arguments that didn't depend on religious doctrine."

Obviously there were substantive issues that motivated most voters but I do think The Tribune was substantially correct in their view of the campaign. From my viewpoint, the outcome would have been difficult under the best of circumstances. But our loss was made certain by three failures on our part:
We failed in our message.
We failed in our methods.
We failed in our money.
Furthermore, I still have to wonder if God was in the effort.


(boldface accent added)

Wow. I mean, message, methods, money. The three Ms, right there. But God?

Okay, so if God wasn't in the effort ...? Never mind. The obvious question is best reserved for another thread.

A significant amount of the campaign's money and time was spent on street signs. Street signs make sense in an elective campaign where a candidate wants name familiarity. In an issue campaign, all a street sign does is announce that there is an issue on the ballot. By itself, it does very little to convince a person to vote a particular way.

Protect Marriage Washington and Faith and Freedom spent the greatest part of their message and money directed at the church. Faith and Freedom mainly used blogging as their method of motivation and communication and it was directed to church people. They promised a media campaign but it didn't seem to materialize.

Focus on the Family did market research and then spent almost $90,000 on radio advertising aimed at converting the undecided. Family Policy Institute of Washington spent over $200,000 on radio advertising aimed at women voters and others who needed to be converted to support. In terms of actual campaigning aimed at bringing people over to our side, Focus on the Family and Family Policy Institute of Washington were the two giants in this campaign. They contributed the most money and invested the most in trying to reach the culture ....

.... Jesus said if someone wants to build a tower "will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it? For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, saying, 'This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.' "Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand?" (Luke 14:28-30)

Jesus gave that parable for those who led us into R-71. They had a plan to start the tower and go to war but not a plan to finish the job or win the war. Maybe the main lesson to be learned from our loss is to question those who want to lead us into similar efforts in the future. We have a right to know that they have a plan that involves enough money and the plan to raise the money. Even more than the plan, there should be some evidence of. seed money. If you are going to claim to be the leader you have to actually have a strategy for victory. Without the definitive plan our side has nothing to rally around.

Since the failure, I have noticed that those who ran the campaign have tried to spin it that we had success in that we now have 200,000 people energized to work in behalf of conservative Christian causes. Personally, I wonder why those 200,000 didn't get financially behind the campaign we just finished. That mighty army gave about sixty cents per person to the campaign. How do you win when those most committed give an average of sixty cents?


(boldface accent added)

One wonders if it is possible that the campaign failed because Washington voters have crossed a certain threshold; it may simply be that, especially in the politically-powerful Puget Sound region, people know the time has come and, while they don't necessarily know how to go forward, the one thing they're not going to do is turn back.

To the other, it's nice to see that Fuiten is looking inward, as such. It certainly beats an appeal against the evil media.

• • •​

Meanwhile, somewhere across the country:

Remember how the enemies of marriage equality ran around Maine saying they didn't oppose all protections for same-sex couples—like domestic partnerships—they just wanted to protect the traditional definition of marriage from the homos? The state legislature in Rhode Island passed a bill that would've allowed domestic partners to make funeral arrangements for each other should one partner predecease the other. The Republican governor of Rhode Island—Donald Carcieri—vetoed that bill today.

(Savage)

Gov. Carcieri expressed his concern that the bill was part of "a disturbing trend over the past few years of the incremental erosion of the principles surrounding traditional marriage, which is not the preferred way to approach this issue"and that it would allow the decisions of a 'partner' of a year to take precedence over 'traditional family members'." (Gregg) The Rhode Island Republican explained his belief that "one year ... is not a sufficient duration to establish a serious bond between two individuals", to which blogger JoeMyGod responded, "Meanwhile, heterosexual couples that have known each other for ten minutes will instantly gain that right upon marriage."

The bottom line here is that homophobic bigots simply should not be trusted. They might make weakly mitigating arguments about their hatred by saying they're just trying to protect tradition, but as Gov. Carcieri showed once again with his veto of basic human dignity, they're just lying when they say such things.

Dan Savage gets the last word here:

Only the rights of same-sex couples are subject to the whims of a bigoted electorate.
____________________

Notes:

Holden, Dominic. "Your Daily Douchebag". Slog. November 10, 2009. Slog.TheStranger.com. November 10, 2009. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/11/10/your-daily-douchebag

Bradford, Kim. "Pastor Fuiten responds to our R-71 editorial". Inside Opinion. November 9, 2009. Blog.TheNewsTribune.com. November 10, 2009. http://blog.thenewstribune.com/opin...esponds-to-our-r-71-editorial/comment-page-1/

Holden, Dominic. "Parasite Pastor". The Stranger. April 21, 2009. TheStranger.com. November 10, 2009. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/parasite-pastor/Content?oid=1473560

Savage, Dan. "Meanwhile in Rhode Island". Slog. November 10, 2009. Slog.TheStranger.com. November 10, 2009. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/11/10/meanwhile-in-rhode-island

Gregg, Katherine. "R.I. governor vetoes 'domestic partners' burial bill". The Providence Journal. November 10, 2009. ProJo.com. November 10, 2009. http://newsblog.projo.com/2009/11/ri-gov-carcieri-vetoes-domesti.html

JoeMyGod. "RI Gov. Don Carcieri: Dirty Queers Do Not Have The Right To Bury Their Partners". JoeMyGod. November 10, 2009. JoeMyGod.BlogSpot.com. November 10, 2009. http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2009/11/ri-gov-don-carcieri-dirty-queers-do-not.html
 
I was surprised the Washington vote was as close as it was. I had expected it to be more along the lines of 60-40 approval. But that was based on the bill being a civil union (not marriage) and propaganda being spread about how 'progressive' the state of Washington is.
 
Argentina!

Argentina!
Wait for it ... wait for it ... oh!


"The law should treat everyone with the same respect according to their singularities, without the need to understand or regulate them." (Judge Gabrielle Seijas)

Congratulations, I suppose, are in order for Alex Freyre and Jose Maria DiBello, who have apparently become "the first gay couple in Latin America to get the right to marry". But we must first see if they make it to the altar: Reuters tells us:

An Argentine judge has granted a homosexual couple permission to get married, setting a precedent that could pave the way for the Catholic country to become the first in Latin America to allow same-sex marriage.

This week's ruling by Judge Gabriela Seijas in Buenos Aires, which became the region's first city to approve civil unions between same sex couples in 2002, may increase pressure on lawmakers to debate a gay marriage bill currently deadlocked in Congress.

"The law should treat everyone with the same respect according to their singularities, without the need to understand or regulate them," Seijas said in her ruling, which could still be overturned by city authorities.
____________________

Notes:

Misculin, Nicolas and Helen Popper. "Argentine judge allows gay wedding in legal first". Reuters. November 13, 2009. Reuters.com. November 13, 2009. http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSTRE5AC32X20091113
 
U.S. Ninth v. DoMA?

DoMA Under Fire
Obama administration annoys the Ninth Circuit


The Defense of Marriage Act is officially under fire in the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. Anna Mumford writes, for the ACLU's Blog of Rights:

The case is about Karen Golinski, who works as a staff attorney for the United States Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, which covers appeals from federal courts in nine western states. She and her long-time partner, Amy, married in California in 2008. Once married, Karen asked her employer to add her wife to the health care plan. When the federal court system told her Amy wasn’t eligible because their marriage wasn’t recognized by the federal government, she filed a complaint with the court system, with help from Lambda Legal and the law firm Morrison & Foerster. They pointed out that the refusal to recognize Karen and Amy’s valid California marriage violated the court’s internal policy of not discriminating based on sex or sexual orientation.

This week, Alex Kozinski, Chief Judge of the 9th Circuit, issued a new opinion in this dispute, stating once again that Karen is entitled to receive health care coverage for her wife, just like any other lawfully married employee of the federal courts. But this time, he added “Et Uxor” to the caption of the case, so that it reads "IN THE MATTER OF KAREN GOLINSKI, ET UXOR", reflecting in yet another way the federal court’s recognition of the validity of Karen and Amy’s union. And throughout the decision, the Chief Judge refers to Amy as Karen’s wife.

The merits of the decision are important — guaranteeing employees of the federal court system equal pay for equal work — but the court’s linguistic respect for their relationship is also a milestone.

Apparently, this did not work out the way Judge Kozinski intended. From an order dated November 19, 2009:

Karen Golinski has been denied a benefit of federal employment because she married a woman rather than a man. I previously determined that violates this court's guarantee of equal employment. See In re Golinski, 2009 WL2222884 at 1 .... To avoid a difficult constitutional problem, I harmonized the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), 1 U.S.C. § 7; the statutes creating the benefit program at issue, the federal Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), 5 U.S.C. §§ 8901 et seq.; and this court's commitment to equal employment opportunity. In re Golinski, 2009 WL2222884 at 1-3.

I then entered the following order:

The Director of the Administrative Office of the United States Courts is therefore ordered to submit Karen Golinski's Health Benefits Election form 2809, which she signed and submitted on September 2, 2008, to the appropriate health insurance carrier. Any future health benefit forms are also to be processed without regard to the sex of a listed spouse.​

Id at 3. No "party or individual aggrieved" by my decision appealed it. See U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, Employment Dispute Resolution Plan 9 (1997) (hereinafter EDR Plan).

The Administrative Office of the United States Courts (AO) complied with my order and submitted Ms. Golinski's form 2809 to the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Service Benefit Plan, Ms. Golinski's health insurance carrier. That's as it should be; the AO is subject to the "supervision and direction" of the Judicial Conference of the United States, 28 U.S.C. § 604(a), and I exercised authority delegated by the Judicial Conference when I ordered relief. After the AO submitted Ms. Golinski's form, I thought the matter had concluded. See 5 C.F.R. § 890.104.

The Executive Branch, acting through the Office of Personnel Management (OPM), thought otherwise. It directed the insurance carrier not to process Ms. Golinski's form 2809, thwarting the relief I had ordered .... I must now decide what further steps are necessary to protect Ms. Golinski and the integrity of the Judiciary's EDR plans.

The seventeen-page order is fairly clear. Judge Kozinski ordered five specific results: a referral for hearing on back pay, a new order to resubmit the benefits election form to the carrier, rescinding Office of Personnel Management guidance or directives to the carrier, directing OPM to stop meddling, and instructing the carrier to enroll the wife.

The implications for DoMA are also clear. Judge Kozinski, to the one, seems to be laying the groundwork for a Supreme Court showdown; to the other, though, that may be unavoidable. The question of whether we will see the filing of OPM v. Golinski has yet to be resolved, but it may well be that the sooner the Obama administration files, the sooner the Defense of Marriage Act will be over.
____________________

Notes:

Mumford, Anna. "Et Uxor". Blog of Rights. November 20, 2009. ACLU.org. November 21, 2009. http://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-rights/et-uxor

Kozinski, Alex. "Order". In the Matter of Karen Golinski et uxor. United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. November 19, 2009. Data.LambdaLegal.org. November 21, 2009. http://data.lambdalegal.org/in-court/downloads/golinski_us_20091119_order-us-court-of-appeals.pdf
 
Last edited:
Watching D. C.

Same-sex marriage cleared a hurdle in the District of Columbia today as the D.C. Council passed a bill to legalize the unions in the district with the first of two votes to approve the measure. The second vote will occur in two weeks; Mayor Adrian Fenty has stated that he will sign the bill into law.

Even if that second vote goes so well, the new law would face review in Congress.
____________________

Notes:

Craig, Tim. "D.C. Council votes to legalize same-sex marriage". The Washington Post. December 1, 2009. WashingtonPost.com. December 1, 2009. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/01/AR2009120101265.html
 
The turning tide

Maybe this is why the Obama administration is willing to annoy the Ninth Circuit:

Two of Congress's three openly gay members said Saturday that the U.S. House is poised to pass bills to provide health coverage for the same-sex partners of gay federal workers and to protect all gay and transgender employees from job discrimination.

Speaking to an international conference of gay politicians in San Francisco, U.S. Reps. Tammy Baldwin, D-Wis., and Jared Polis, D-Colo., said they expect a domestic partner benefits bill to come up for a vote by the end of the year and the employment bill to reach the floor early in 2010.

The lawmakers said they are also confident that the House will include in the annual military spending bill next year a provision to repeal the law that bans gays from serving in the U.S. military. All the measures face a harder time in the Senate following the death of longtime ally Sen. Edward Kennedy, but Baldwin and Polis said they remained optimistic Senate leaders would.

"I'm hopeful we will see those three pieces of legislation make it all the way, or damn close," said Baldwin, who is sponsoring the federal worker domestic partner bill.

Office of Personnel Management director John Berry, the Obama administration's highest ranking gay appointee, told the conference that the president strongly supports the trio of gay rights measures.

Including transgender workers as part of the legislation to ban job discrimination and lifting the "don't ask, don't tell" ban on gay service members may especially meet opposition in Congress, Berry said. But he said that with a Democrat in the White House and Democratic majorities controlling the House and the Senate, victories were "within our grasp."


(Leff)

Interestingly, OPM director John Berry is the same administration official to whom the task of annoying the Ninth Circuit fell. Radio host Michelangelo Signorile noted:

And of course, another bombshell here is that the Office of Personnel Management was ordered by the White House to refuse to give a lesbian federal employee her court-ordered rights. John Berry, as head of that office, was thus apparently forced as an openly gay man to deny another gay person, and the LGBT movement itself, of rights, even in the face or a court order. Is this how openly gay appointees must operate within the Obama administration -- not as advocates on behalf of civil rights but rather as lackeys charged with blocking equal rights for their own kind? That, if true, is enormously troubling.

What we might be seeing, then—and one can only hope that it is, indeed, the process afoot—is Obama maneuvering in relation to the scope of his office. Berry, of course, will point to Congress, but Reps. Baldwin and Polis also look to Congress, suggesting that recent criticism of the president by gay activists might be misdirected.

The question, then, is what exactly we think President Obama can do. In reality, he has a limited set of tools at his disposal in this issue. After eight years complaining about the unilateralism of the Bush administration and its blatant disregard for the checks and balances of the American institutional triumvirate, it seems a difficult position to assert that Obama should be heavy handed in dismantling DoMA. What we see in Director Berry's move against the Golinskis is nothing more than an assertion of a president fulfilling his oath to execute the laws and preserve the Constitution. In doing so, Obama is perhaps laying the groundwork for a triple threat to the traditional ant-gay bigotry in American society and policy. A Congress willing to pass the bills; an executive willing to strike them; and a possible showdown between DoMA and the Constitution arising out of the Ninth Circuit. The annoying carryover legal arguments of the Obama DoJ will become the vapor of memory—a recollection of context—under such a transformation of American civil rights. The president is still on a course where the sense of mixed signals many gay activists and interests perceive will come together and make some sort of coherent, progressive sense.
____________________

Notes:

Leff, Lisa. "Gay House members say gay-friendly bills are near". Associated Press. December 5, 2009. Google.com. December 5, 2009. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gA_feoEOL_XDslGZdOFqbNFPEEcwD9CDG5A00

Signorile, Michelangelo. "Did Highest-Ranking Gay Official Thwart Equal Rights?" The Gist. November 27, 2009. Signorile.com. December 5, 2009. http://www.signorile.com/2009/11/did-highest-ranking-gay-official-thwart.html
 
I had a roomate that was bisexual, but also admitted to trying to have sex with animals and he had inserted objects in his anus for pleasure.
What do you call a person like that ? a "Poly-Sexual" :eek:
 
Actually, no:



But if "penis + vagina = sex. that's it." is rape no longer a sex crime? I mean, is punching someone in the mouth rape?

in a metaphorical sense i guess. i don't come up with these labels, and i don't have a problem with them either. i'm just saying that i think the intent and the outcome is very much the same. someone violating you, stealing from you, and infringing upon your human rights...assaulting you, causing you physical, and/or emotional pain. it's all the same, whether it involves genitals or not.

i don't think anyone's saying "i love that girl so much i want to rape her", or "i'm so horny i have to rape someone". i think there has to be some form of hatred, even if it's in the form of disregard, for someone to rape. and often times, like if it happens to a man in prison, i think it's a form of humiliation. that's violence.



I admit it strikes me as a curious standard.

You love your dog, but your requirement for a co-parent is that you "wouldn't mind having children with" them?



So can barren women and impotent men have mates?

sure they can. they just won't have any children. :shrug:

i think that sex creates a bond that's beneficial to parenting. but i also think it's beneficial in other ways too.
 
Back
Top