The Free Will Experiment

General_Paul said:
Eh... I'm not a big proponent of God's creation of the human race at all, just doesn't jive with my beliefs. Hey, I think if there was a Jesus Christ, he had some great ideas and was a great guy overall. Just the idea of an all seeing, all powerful god creating the entire universe and in turn, creating humanity and sending his son down to "die for our sins" just doesn't make any sense at all. In the end it comes down to: If you were the lord king of an entire, abnormally large universe, would you bother with one backwards planet in the middle of nowhere? Probably not, you've got better things to do. Yeah you'll make races, but focus on one of them? Probably not.

And one other thing, if god made man, then who made god?
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No one, he was always here, and always will be here... He is infinite

After all, if that was untrue, then someone mad Him... and if someone created Him, that creator was created by someone else... and there would ne a neverending, and again infinite, amount of creators...

Well, that whole thing doesnt make sense to YOU, but it makes sense to others... just like Rocket science doesnt make any sense at all to some and total sense to others... and how some people cant grasp the concept in Geometry that all our "points" are nonexistent, have no size, no width, and no length, butare represented by something that does exist, has a length, and has a width, and then they cant cgrasp why we do an entire course on a point... if it doesnt exist... while others either a) understand this ; or b) dont give a crap

And since God can do anything (supposedly), He can concentrate on ALL worlds, ALL races, ALL people, and still read the sports page... simutaneously!!! (which is awesome, altho he kinda already knows who wins... so that kinda makes it not so awesome...)
 
Wife: Please in the name of God go and get us some milk
Husband: Almighty Lord, shall I walk to the store?
God: Take the car
H: Thank you Lord, shall I go down Main St.
G: No, take Elm
H: Lord I do not wish to pollute the atmosphere with exhaust fumes
G: Get in the car, don't start the engine and your wife can push
W: My God, I am with child
G: I know that
W: Can I go to the bathroom first?
G: aaaaaaaggh! (sound of gunshot)
H: Wife, what do we do now?

Ahhhh...this is stupid. Would God bother with such trivialities if there was no free will? He better because if he doesn't then there is no such thing as a society with no free will.
 
Adam and eve were put here to be to the earth, like shepards with a flock. It wasnt gods intent for all the sin. When Eve took of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, it says her eyes were open, then it was when God gave man free will. Before they had a differnet purpose. He has cleansed the world once because of free will. And times werent near as bad then as they are now. Concede the free will and beg God to oversee, thats the only way an honest man will make a righteous path in this world today. Without the gifts from God, You will fall!
 
mallory said:
When Eve took of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, it says her eyes were open, then it was when God gave man free will. Before they had a differnet purpose.
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This is exactly what I said earlier. Before the apple eating incident there had to be a period of no free will but Eve, bless her heart, took the initiative and established free will while God was asleep at the switch.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
This is exactly what I said earlier. Before the apple eating incident there had to be a period of no free will but Eve, bless her heart, took the initiative and established free will while God was asleep at the switch.
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For Adam and eve to make the independent decision to eat the fruit they must have already had free will. Free will was not the problem. That was the tool that satan, Adam and eve used to cause the problem. The Problem was not free will the problem was coming to the knowledge of Good and Evil.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
For Adam and eve to make the independent decision to eat the fruit they must have already had free will. Free will was not the problem. That was the tool that satan, Adam and eve used to cause the problem. The Problem was not free will the problem was coming to the knowledge of Good and Evil.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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Adstar, that is about as fine an attempt to tiptoe around an obviously problematic segment of the scriptures that I have ever seen. It almost assuredly ascertains that god did not give us free will since that damn devil got there first. God got caught napping on that one for sure.

To say that A&E did not exercise free will is preposterous. No one forced them to chow down, they didn't ask for permission, they reacted to some inticing but that is no different than any act of free will ever committed. Before I exercise my free will I analyze the situation and base my actions on the information at hand. A&E no different. For you to say the devil did it must mean you are lost for words or explanation. I'm used to seeing biblical quotes from you backing up your claim.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
Before the apple eating incident there had to be a period of no free will but Eve, bless her heart, took the initiative and established free will while God was asleep at the switch.
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Moral of the story: never trust women, even if you're God :cool:
 
Adstar said:
For Adam and eve to make the independent decision to eat the fruit they must have already had free will. Free will was not the problem. That was the tool that satan, Adam and eve used to cause the problem. The Problem was not free will the problem was coming to the knowledge of Good and Evil.



God told them they could have free run and eat from every tree in the garden BUT the tree of knowledge, they had a certian amount of free will but not when it came to the forbidden tree. When you are ordered to obey rules, u always have options but when it comes to bending those rules, it was certianly meant to b left alone, God knew what would happen and tried to save us from it by giving the rules. When human broke it they took their fate in their own hands. Remember the devil made an uprising to God with proud ways and thats why he was casted from heaven. The bible is meant to be lived by for a purpose, he loves us and has given us guide lines to live by to avoid the things that will taint our soul. the free will simply comes into "you can lead a thursting donkey to water, its there, he needs it, but if hes to stubborn he will surely die with his substinance being there all along. He held to much "Pride" to save himself. Sounds pretty macho to me, obviously it was a male ass! The bible is also a substanance, u ned it to live by and if ur to proud to partake u will subcomb to all that is left. Your not held accountable for what u dont know in gods eyes.....but if u know that, then u know to much to turn back
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A&E, who have no knowledge of good and evil cannot possibly know that disobeying a direct order from God is bad. They could not have known Satan was the evil guy either. And they could not have known they had it good before all the shit came down.

This is a life all humans faced if Eve never got hungry. I think she's the greatest heroine the world has ever known.
 
Well, you could argue right and wrong arent necessarily linked to good and evil... there is a difference from knowing what "dont eat that fruit" means and what evil is...

Im pretty sure f A&E existed... well, they would sorta know that when ur told not to do something, dont do it... but yes, they did not know that the serpent was Satan and thus evil... and they werent "hungry" for they had all the other fruits on all the other trees too... its a garden... gardens with trees usually have more than one...

But hey, i only think its a story...
 
Provita said:
Well, you could argue right and wrong arent necessarily linked to good and evil... there is a difference from knowing what "dont eat that fruit" means and what evil is...

Im pretty sure f A&E existed... well, they would sorta know that when ur told not to do something, dont do it... but yes, they did not know that the serpent was Satan and thus evil... and they werent "hungry" for they had all the other fruits on all the other trees too... its a garden... gardens with trees usually have more than one...

But hey, i only think its a story...
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Me too, it's funny but not to some people.

As to knowing the difference between what 'don't eat' means and evil, no, because they had not yet acquired knowledge of evil.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
Adstar, that is about as fine an attempt to tiptoe around an obviously problematic segment of the scriptures that I have ever seen. It almost assuredly ascertains that god did not give us free will since that damn devil got there first. God got caught napping on that one for sure.

To say that A&E did not exercise free will is preposterous. No one forced them to chow down, they didn't ask for permission, they reacted to some inticing but that is no different than any act of free will ever committed. Before I exercise my free will I analyze the situation and base my actions on the information at hand. A&E no different. For you to say the devil did it must mean you are lost for words or explanation. I'm used to seeing biblical quotes from you backing up your claim.
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What??? Did you read what i said or not?

Please quote where i said that A@E did not exercise free will???

I said that Adam and Evil did have free will and they did exercise that free will and that exercise of free will lead to the real problem of coming to the knowledge of Good and Evil.

Please quote where i said that it was all the devils doing???

What did i say ”That was the tool that satan, Adam and eve used to cause the problem.”

Talk about someone being blinded to the truth PE. How could you have so badly misread my post??? Maybe God is blinding you to the truth.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
This is exactly what I said earlier. Before the apple eating incident there had to be a period of no free will but Eve, bless her heart, took the initiative and established free will while God was asleep at the switch.
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How can a created being establish a change of that magnitude within themselves? Eve did not establish free will. Eve used free will to rebel against the will of God.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
mallory said:
Adstar said:
For Adam and eve to make the independent decision to eat the fruit they must have already had free will. Free will was not the problem. That was the tool that satan, Adam and eve used to cause the problem. The Problem was not free will the problem was coming to the knowledge of Good and Evil.



God told them they could have free run and eat from every tree in the garden BUT the tree of knowledge, they had a certian amount of free will but not when it came to the forbidden tree. When you are ordered to obey rules, u always have options but when it comes to bending those rules, it was certianly meant to b left alone, God knew what would happen and tried to save us from it by giving the rules. When human broke it they took their fate in their own hands. Remember the devil made an uprising to God with proud ways and thats why he was casted from heaven. The bible is meant to be lived by for a purpose, he loves us and has given us guide lines to live by to avoid the things that will taint our soul. the free will simply comes into "you can lead a thursting donkey to water, its there, he needs it, but if hes to stubborn he will surely die with his substinance being there all along. He held to much "Pride" to save himself. Sounds pretty macho to me, obviously it was a male ass! The bible is also a substanance, u ned it to live by and if ur to proud to partake u will subcomb to all that is left. Your not held accountable for what u dont know in gods eyes.....but if u know that, then u know to much to turn back
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They had total free will just as i have total free will. Eve proved that by her act of eating from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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Adstar said:
How can a created being establish a change of that magnitude within themselves? Eve did not establish free will. Eve used free will to rebel against the will of God.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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Who erred then? God or Eve?

The free will tool as you call it was not used to intentionally commit an evil act. I assumed that Satan knew He could use this to coerce A&E into disobeying. If not then I am wrong and Satan had no idea.

Sorry, my wording could have been better. Yes God appears to have granted free will, that's why this thread is entitled Freewill Experiment. I meant Satan pushed A&E into exercising true free will, they had no knowledge it was right or wrong.
 
Would not man's free will be a mightier force than the eternal plans and purpose of an almighty God?
Certainly not.
Man in his carnal condition no matter how just he might be, his purposes would no wise compare with the purpose of the eternal and Almighty God.

Find one place in the Bible where a prophet ever did anything without God showing him what to do.
It's not man; it's God.
Even God didn't recognize the flesh of His own Son to give Him free will for whatever He did.
He did just as the Father told Him.
For man to be used in the plan of God, he must learn to surrender his own will and get himself out of the way....so that God can work through him.
 
Moral of the story: never trust women, even if you're God
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Male chauvenist pig! LOL Good one though.

Here I've solved the damn problem with A&E: THEY DIDN'T EXIST!!.

Godless
 
TheVisitor said:
Would not man's free will be a mightier force than the eternal plans and purpose of an almighty God?
Certainly not.
Man in his carnal condition no matter how just he might be, his purposes would no wise compare with the purpose of the eternal and Almighty God.

Find one place in the Bible where a prophet ever did anything without God showing him what to do.
It's not man; it's God.
Even God didn't recognize the flesh of His own Son to give Him free will for whatever He did.
He did just as the Father told Him.
For man to be used in the plan of God, he must learn to surrender his own will and get himself out of the way....so that God can work through him.
Click to expand...



my point exactly, in actuality we have it, but to enter heaven we must concede it, thats glorifying GOD for being GOD, controller of all things.showin him u are nothing without him. and your time here on earht is mean to do HIS will, not the earthly things we get so tied up in.The way the world is now is Man's doing.
 
Originally Posted by Adstar
How can a created being establish a change of that magnitude within themselves? Eve did not establish free will. Eve used free will to rebel against the will of God.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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PsychoticEpisode said:
Who erred then? God or Eve?
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satan, Adam and Eve did.



The free will tool as you call it was not used to intentionally commit an evil act. I assumed that Satan knew He could use this to coerce A&E into disobeying. If not then I am wrong and Satan had no idea.
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Adam and Eve had a choice as to who to believe, who to trust. They trusted satan because they wanted the same thing satan wanted :to be Gods. When you say satan coerced Adam and Eve you make it sound that he forced them against their free will to eat the fruit. But he did not force them to do it at all, he appealed to their desire and lied to them.



Sorry, my wording could have been better. Yes God appears to have granted free will, that's why this thread is entitled Freewill Experiment. I meant Satan pushed A&E into exercising true free will, they had no knowledge it was right or wrong.
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Once again satan did not push anybody. He made a sales pitch and Adam and Eve agreed to it. God had already make His will known but Adam and Eve, they decided to disregard it out of the desire to be gods.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
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