The Free Will Experiment

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It is very dry in here today
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Let's assume there is a God and He gave us free will. Let's also assume there is a universe full of planets containing creatures in His image. The implication is that we may be the only planet out there with free will, perhaps as an experiment conducted by the ALMIGHTY.

I'm trying to think of what life would be like with no free will. If a planet of creatures equal to us in intelligence is discovered but with no free will, how would they function? How would we function without it? If we, as we are apt to explore, someday come upon such a place what in the hell would happen? I'm having trouble with this, can someone describe a world with no free will?

I'll also ask this question to my religious friends...is there free will in Heaven or Hell? Does God direct your every move or decisions 100%?

Personally I get nauseous thinking about a place where my every move is determined by another being even if it is my maker or his evil counterpart. Is it fair to give your creations free will only to take it away in Heaven?
 
Nope, I say it's an impossibility. Giving us freewill gives us the ability to make mistakes or rebel, ie, do evil things. Evil done by us if we were commanded by God would not be evil but good if God commanded us to do them and made us to where we had no choice but do evil all of the time. Of course here, we have no choice but to do evil once in a while but He does not condone it or encourage it, in that sense. We are all going to make a mistake in some point in our life and wind up hurting someone mentally/physically but that comes with being human. Evil cannot exist without freewill. And if so, only God Himself could come up with a way since it is beyond our logic.

And of course if the devil was driven out of heaven for being too proud, of course there is free will in heaven. I see life and afterlife as both having the ability to grow. Your soul always learning, from mistakes here and there. Free will in hell also as I see it. It is a place to sit and think about your actions, what you have done wrong here and grow just as we mentally grow from mistakes we make here. Eternity in God's eyes is a mere fraction of our time. My mother used to go in the car and I wouldn't go in sometimes and she'd say, 'be back in a little while'. But when you're a kid, and know no time or what time she's coming back, it can seem like an eternity. Without a mother/father/friend, even minutes can seem like hours and when you know no time, it seems forever sometimes. You can't take the bible literally. It was wrote by imperfect men, translated by imperfect men, and not all can be taken as 100% true.
 
Let's assume there is a God and He gave us free will. Let's also assume there is a universe full of planets containing creatures in His image. The implication is that we may be the only planet out there with free will, perhaps as an experiment conducted by the ALMIGHTY.

I'm trying to think of what life would be like with no free will. If a planet of creatures equal to us in intelligence is discovered but with no free will, how would they function? How would we function without it? If we, as we are apt to explore, someday come upon such a place what in the hell would happen? I'm having trouble with this, can someone describe a world with no free will?
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I'd like to make the point that we are more likely the ones without free will. Beings with free will would have to be unattached from the laws of the universe somehow. Cut off from their biological makeup and go beyond the design of the universe and 'surprise' God. If you can't surprise God, then there is no free will.
 
Evil cannot exist without freewill.
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Bullshit and more bullshit. I stopped reading after that as it is clear you are just indulging your childish simplistic view of the world.

God could have created a universe with 'free will' that did not have 'evil'. It is as simple as that. But since 'evil' does not exist the point is moot.
 
"Let's assume there is a God and He gave us free will. Let's also assume there is a universe full of planets containing creatures in His image. The implication is that we may be the only planet out there with free will, perhaps as an experiment conducted by the ALMIGHTY."

Possibly. Or it could be that we are the fortunate few.

"I'm trying to think of what life would be like with no free will. If a planet of creatures equal to us in intelligence is discovered but with no free will, how would they function? How would we function without it? If we, as we are apt to explore, someday come upon such a place what in the hell would happen? I'm having trouble with this, can someone describe a world with no free will?"

All actions would simply take place, much like a script in a movie, where creatures simply do what they do. Being only an actor playing a role, there would be no real choice in ones actions, though such a creature might believe that it was behind the wheel and driving its vehicle. I would think that such a place would be more compatible with a godless world. Individual spirit would be much like the physical world, bound to universal laws.

"I'll also ask this question to my religious friends...is there free will in Heaven or Hell? Does God direct your every move or decisions 100%?"

Heaven would be absolute knowledge, a place where there are no questions. ;)

"Personally I get nauseous thinking about a place where my every move is determined by another being even if it is my maker or his evil counterpart."

So that would be Hell then, in your mind.

"Is it fair to give your creations free will only to take it away in Heaven"

It may be that once there, you would care little about such questions. Maybe Heaven is much like life--a theme park.
 
God could have created a universe with 'free will' that did not have 'evil'. It is as simple as that. But since 'evil' does not exist the point is moot.
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Wrong, ask God Himself when you face judgement. Are you going to tell Him He did this to torture us with evil when He could've done it another way? The best way for conversation is not cursing and mocking.
 
Wrong, ask God Himself when you face judgement
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I will bear that in mind when I am a pile of bones. But firstly, I'd like you to tell me how I am wrong on this and what makes you think you know God's motives? Are you saying that we can't have free will (which doesn't exist) without evil (which doesn't exist) even though there could be other elements that God did not apply to the universe? If 'evil' was missing from the universe we would be non-the wiser and have the same amount of 'free will', just as we could be missing other unknowns. Do you follow?

Are you going to tell Him He did this to torture us with evil when He could've done it another way?
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Ok, assuming it is true that I will one day have a conversation with this sky fairy of yours, the absurdities of free will would be the last thing I would ask. I would ask him if he agrees with me that religion is bullshit. I have a feeling that he would. But since we have 'free will' I guess he must allow the 'evil' that is religion to exist, right?

The best way for conversation is not cursing and mocking.
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Yes, when conversing with someone who lives in the real world.
 
More interesting would be a world of creatures that have no concepts of good and evil. Would it be possible for the existence of a society without such concepts? I don't believe so.
 
Kenny,

"But since 'evil' does not exist the point is moot."

There's nothing in life that you would label as being evil (bad?)
 
There's nothing in life that you would label as being evil (bad?)
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If you mean behavior that goes against what a group of social animals hold to be normal, yes.

When you subtract God's and Devils that is what you are left with. It does not mean we then go around doing things to upset our fellow species in society, because we are still social animals.
 
"When you subtract God's and Devils that is what you are left with. It does not mean we then go around doing things to upset our fellow species in society, because we are still social animals."

You're talking to the herd right here, and you are defining a wrong. There must be some sense of moral authority within you that allows you to do that.
 
Is sin a product of free will? If so then why be punished for receiving a gift?

Ok, my Christian friends....before the first sin was committed were we a non free will society? It seems that for a little while at least we were without sin. I see the introduction of free will in the Bible as a way of keeping God from having made a mistake, as if sinning was a happenstance God never counted on, a sort of after the fact fabrication to protect His omniscience.
 
Dunno. That's a good question. You seem to be suggesting that we are slaves to our environment.

All actions would simply take place, much like a script in a movie, where creatures simply do what they do. Being only an actor playing a role, there would be no real choice in ones actions, though such a creature might believe that it was behind the wheel and driving its vehicle. I would think that such a place would be more compatible with a godless world. Individual spirit would be much like the physical world, bound to universal laws.
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I'm having trouble with this, can someone describe a world with no free will?
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WE ARE THE BORG, WE ARE GOING TO ASSIMILATE, RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.
 
No free will, no will to be free. Therefore, no will to think as you wish. Therefore, you are a robot in a sense. Your thoughts are predefined. We will just be, as animals. Why is that a tough question?
 
Have a look at Articles 18 and 19
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Later... So long as it isn't conservative propaganda, I will read it.

Therefore, you are a robot in a sense. Your thoughts are predefined.
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Who says they are not predefined since God is omniscient? What if we are robots? Robots albeit obviously more advanced than any robot humans could manufacture, but God?

My point is we could very well not have 'free will' by it's true definition, but we would never know it. I understand why people would think we do, it seems obvious. But if everything you read about the Christian God is true, IMO we certainly don't have free will.
 
God follows rules and in rules, everything is not possible to do in an according way. And may I be the first religious person then to conjure a theoretical limit on God's ability. But within a limit of rules, everything is not possible when you accord to them. I believe God Himself is free willed just as us but believes in following a set standard. Who's to stop Him from crushing us if He's in a bad mood? You may say, nothing, then He has free will. But why doesn't He? Does He have rules Himself? Who's to say He doesn't rule Himself? In that case, He has standards, limits He may think He should uphold. So perhaps God has a set way of doing things and it may be the best way to go about it according to the way God sees it. Can you think of something better? Is God's way defunct or not the best to you? If not, how would you go about it being God? You see how that makes you look, saying you can do better than God? You should be thankful He put you here just so you could have the ability to mock Him, let alone, say you can do His job better.

But if everything you read about the Christian God is true, IMO we certainly don't have free will.
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And why is that? There is no random, no way for me to decide if I'm going to randomly mispell randum? Perhaps God knows what we are going to do but I don't believe He interferes with it, which means we do have free will. We can do as we wish. I can be predetermined to be a Godly man in the eyes of man but can just as easily let my emotions run free and do as I wish. I have the choice to defy my own rules if I wish. In what way do you feel limited?
 
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usp8riot said:
God follows rules and in rules, everything is not possible to do in an according way. And may I be the first religious person then to conjure a theoretical limit on God's ability. But within a limit of rules, everything is not possible when you accord to them. I believe God Himself is free willed just as us but believes in following a set standard. Who's to stop Him from crushing us if He's in a bad mood? You may say, nothing, then He has free will. But why doesn't He? Does He have rules Himself? Who's to say He doesn't rule Himself? In that case, He has standards, limits He may think He should uphold. So perhaps God has a set way of doing things and it may be the best way to go about it according to the way God sees it. Can you think of something better? Is God's way defunct or not the best to you? If not, how would you go about it being God? You see how that makes you look, saying you can do better than God? You should be thankful He put you here just so you could have the ability to mock Him, let alone, say you can do His job better.
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I'm not saying I could do a better job than your sky fairy, I am saying that there is a flaw in your argument that because 'evil' existsmeans it is evidence of 'free will'. What if there was a third sex that was there purely for decoration? What if 'evil' did not exist or society as we know it did not exist? There could be an unlimited set of parameters that could make up this universe, but there are limited amounts. 'Evil' is just one and should not be considered evidence of free will since there are an unlimited set of parameters missing that could contribute 'free will' also.


And why is that? There is no random, no way for me to decide if I'm going to randomly mispell randum? Perhaps God knows what we are going to do but I don't believe He interferes with it, which means we do have free will. We can do as we wish. I can be predetermined to be a Godly man in the eyes of man but can just as easily let my emotions run free and do as I wish. I have the choice to defy my own rules if I wish. In what way do you feel limited?
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Well we have moved away from 'God' and now we are talking about 'The Christian God'. This makes my point easier since the Christian God plays a game were you must worship or be condemned, and live a life that pleases him or be condemned. Free will? I could go on...
 
It is free will just as a child has free will with it's parents. Sure the child has rules it should follow but free to do as the child wishes. It's the same with God. You can never run away from rules. Having rules doesn't mean you don't have free will. You can do what ever you wish but if the action isn't just, that is why we have rules. What do you want, free will to do whatever without rules? This whole argument is pointless. I felt the same way as you. I don't like being fenced in with rules either, nor does the body naturally want to sometimes. But God doesn't force us to follow the rules as an honest parent wouldn't, but expects us not to hurt each other.
 
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